The President's Commission met at 9 a.m. on February 21, 1964, at 200
Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; and Allen W. Dulles,
member.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Albert E. Jenner,
Jr., assistant counsel; Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel; and
William McKenzie, attorney for Robert Edward Lee Oswald.
The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, the Commission will be in order.
As yesterday, I will only be able to be here for a comparatively short
time, because we have our weekly conference of the Supreme Court today.
And when I leave, Mr. Allen Dulles will conduct the hearing. We will
now proceed with the testimony.
Mr. JENNER. Thank you, Mr. Chief Justice.
I would like to return, Mr. Oswald, to the time that your brother Lee
was discharged from military service and spent approximately 3 days at
home. You recall that period?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. JENNER. Now, would you please describe his physical appearance the
last time you saw him during that 3-day period?
Mr. OSWALD. His hair was brown and curly, a full set of hair. His
physical appearance--he was trim, weighed approximately 140 pounds, he
was approximately 5 foot 9-1/2, he seemed to be in fine physical shape
at that time.
Mr. JENNER. I mentioned 3 days. Was I wrong about the 3 days, or was it
a little longer period?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; my recollection on that period was 2 or 3 days,
and only during one of these day do I remember seeing him. He spent the
day at our house.
Mr. JENNER. It was your impression, sir, that he was in good health,
bright and alert mentally at that time?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; he most certainly was.
Mr. JENNER. Did you describe his physical appearance as far as his head
of hair was concerned?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. A full head of hair?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did he appear strained in any respect?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; he did not.
Mr. JENNER. His mental condition, as far as you can tell, is what you
would regard or had regarded as normal during your acquaintance with
him as his brother?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Now, will you then jump to the first time you saw him
subsequently thereto, which I understand was in June 1962. State the
date, please, as closely as you can.
Mr. OSWALD. This was June 14, 1962.
Mr. JENNER. And where did you see him?
Mr. OSWALD. At Dallas, Love Field.
Mr. JENNER. Now, on that occasion--and take in also the period of
time that he lived with you in your home during June and part of July
1962--what did you observe, and if in contrast by way of contrast, in
his physical appearance and demeanor as against the last time you had
seen him, in 1959.
Mr. OSWALD. His appearance had changed to the extent that he had lost
a considerable amount of hair; his hair had become very kinky in
comparison with his naturally curly hair prior to his departure to
Russia.
Mr. JENNER. Had his hair been in any respect kinky, as you put it, in
November of 1959 immediately prior to his leaving for Russia?
Mr. OSWALD. That would have been in September.
Mr. JENNER. September--I am sorry.
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not. It was curly.
Mr. JENNER. Did that arrest your attention, the difference in the
texture of his head of hair?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; it certainly did.
Mr. JENNER. You, though 5 years old at the time of your father's
death--do you recall his physical appearance insofar as his head of
hair?
Mr. OSWALD. My father's head of hair?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. OSWALD. He had a full set of hair.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have any baldness or tendency towards baldness in
your family?
Mr. OSWALD. None that I am aware of.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I include both your mother and father and relatives on
either side, to the extent that you have met those people.
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; no one that I recall that I met, relatives on
either my father's or mother's side, had any tendency towards baldness.
Mr. JENNER. And you have none?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I do not.
Mr. JENNER. And your brother John?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. He still has a full head of hair?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Even now?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What else did you observe by way of his facial
appearance--whether he was drawn, or bouncy and healthy, as he had been
when you had seen him in September of 1959?
Mr. OSWALD. He appeared the first couple of days upon his return,
June 14, 1962, to be rather tense and anxious. I also noted that his
complexion had changed somewhat to the extent that he had always been
very fair complected--his complexion was rather ruddy at this time--you
might say it appeared like an artificial suntan that you get out of a
bottle, but very slight--in other words, a tint of brown to a tint of
yellow.
Mr. JENNER. What else did you notice by contrast, so far as his
physical appearance is concerned? And then, next, I want to go to his
demeanor.
Mr. OSWALD. I believe his weight perhaps was a little bit less at that
time. I would say probably 5 pounds--approximately 5 pounds less than
what he was in 1959, before he went to Russia.
Mr. JENNER. Did you say he appeared drawn as compared with his
appearance in 1959--facially?
Mr. OSWALD. I would say to some extent; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, would you please relate to the Commission any other
differences, if there were any, in demeanor?
Mr. OSWALD. To me, he acted the same as he did in 1959 prior to going
to Russia. Our conversations at the time he returned from Russia in
June of 1962--he appeared to be the same boy I had known before, with
the exception of what I noted on his physical appearance.
As far as his conversations were concerned at this particular time,
June of 1962, I noticed no difference.
He appeared to have picked up something of an accent. But I took this
to mean that because he had been speaking the Russian language and
living in Russia during a period of approximately two and a half years,
that this was the reason for the accent.
Mr. JENNER. Did these differences in physical appearance, especially
his hair, his skin tone, his overall facial and physical appearance,
lead you at that moment, in the light of what had occurred in the
meantime, your exchange of correspondence, lead you to form an opinion,
at least tentative, as to what might have occurred or happened to your
brother while he was in Russia?
Mr. OSWALD. In reference to that, sir; his hair--I did, either on the
first or second night, when he was there at the house--I pointed it out
to him and actually had him bend his head down to where I could look
at the top of it, and it was very thin on the top--you could see just
right down to his scalp.
And his comment on that was that he thought the weather had affected
his hair, the cold weather.
Mr. JENNER. Did he make any comments when you met him at Love Field,
and did you ride in with him from Love Field to your home?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. We were in my personal car, and my wife and
my children were with me. We met him and his wife and his baby. He
seemed, perhaps the word is disappointed, when there were no newspaper
reporters around. He did comment on this.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us what he said.
Mr. OSWALD. I believe his comment was something, "What, no
photographers or anything?"