_Socr._ Not therefore by law only, but by nature also, it is more base
to injure than to be injured, and just to possess the equal. So that you
appear not to have spoken the truth before, nor to accuse me rightly, in
saying that law and nature are contrary to each other, and that I,
knowing this, deal unfairly in the discussion, if any one speaks
according to nature, by leading him to law, and if any one speaks
according to law, by leading him to nature.
_Cal._ This man will not cease trifling. Tell me, Socrates, are you not
ashamed, at your age, to catch at words, and, if any one makes a mistake
in an expression to consider it an unexpected gain? For, do you think
that by the superior I mean any thing else than the better? Did I not
tell you long since, that I consider the better and the superior to be
the same? Do you suppose I mean, that if a crowd of slaves, and all
sorts of men of no worth, except perhaps for bodily strength, should
meet together, that what they should say[70] would be legal
institutions?
-----
Footnote 70:
οὗτοι φῶσιν, αὐτὰ ταῦτα εἶναι νόμιμα; as if αὐτὰ ταῦτα preceded ἃ ἂν
φῶσιν. _See Stallbaum._
-----
_Socr._ Be it so, most wise Callicles: is that your meaning?
_Cal._ Certainly.
98. _Socr._ But I, Sir, long since suspected that you meant some such
thing by the superior; and therefore I repeat the question, desiring to
understand clearly what you do mean; for you surely do not think that
two are better than one, nor that your slaves are better than you
because they are stronger than you. Tell me then from the beginning whom
you mean by the better, since you do not mean the stronger. And, my
admirable friend, teach me in the outset in a milder manner, that I may
not leave you.
_Cal._ You are bantering, Socrates.
_Socr._ By Zethus, no, Callicles, in whose name you just now bantered me
a good deal. But come, tell me who do you mean are the better?
_Cal._ I mean the more excellent.
_Socr._ You see, then, that you yourself speak words, but explain
nothing. Will you not tell me whether by the better and superior you
mean the more wise, or some others?
_Cal._ But, by Jupiter, I mean these, certainly.
99. _Socr._ Often, therefore, according to your account, one wise man is
superior to ten thousand that are not wise; and it is right that he
should govern, and they be governed, and that the governor should have
more than the governed. For you appear to me to wish to say this (and I
do not catch at expressions), if one man is superior to ten thousand.
_Cal._ That is what I mean. For I think this is just by nature, that the
better and the more wise should both govern and have more than the
worthless.
_Socr._ Stop there. What then do you now say? If we were in the same
place, as we now are, many men together, and had, in common, abundance
of meat and drink, and were men of various descriptions, some strong,
others weak, and one of us being a physician should happen to be more
wise respecting these things, and should be (as is likely) stronger than
some, and weaker than others, will it not follow that this man who is
wiser than we are, will be better and superior with respect to these
things?
_Cal._ Certainly.
_Socr._ Should he, therefore, have more of these meats than we, because
he is better? Or, because he is chief, ought he not to distribute the
whole, but, in consuming and using them for his own body, not take more
than others, under pain of injury to himself, but should have more than
some, and less than others; and if he should happen to be the weakest of
all, though the best, he must have least of all, Callicles? Is it not
so, my friend?
100. _Cal._ You speak of meats and drinks, and physicians, and such
trifles; but I do not speak of these.
_Socr._ Whether, then, do you say that the more wise is better? Grant or
deny.
_Cal._ I do.
_Socr._ And do you not say that the better ought to have more?
_Cal._ Not of meats and drinks.
_Socr._ I understand. But perhaps of clothes, and the most skilful
weaver should have the largest garment, and go about most abundantly and
beautifully clad.
_Cal._ What garments do you mean?
_Socr._ And with respect to shoes, it is clear that he who is more
skilled and best, should have more than others; the shoemaker, perhaps,
ought to walk about with the largest and greatest number of shoes.
_Cal._ What shoes? Are you still trifling?
_Socr._ But if you do not mean such things, perhaps you do the
following: for instance, that a husbandman, wise and skilled in the
cultivation of land, should perhaps have more seeds than others, and use
as much as possible on his own land.