My Lords, there is a point on which I feel it now my duty to trouble

your Lordships, and that is the question of Greece. A severe charge

has been made against the Congress, and particularly against the

English Plenipotentiaries, for not having sufficiently attended to the

interests and claims of Greece. My Lords, I think you will find,

on reflection, that that charge is utterly unfounded. The English

Government were the first that expressed the desire that Greece should

be heard at the Congress. But, while they expressed that desire, they

communicated confidentially to Greece that it must on no account

associate that desire on the part of the Government with any

engagement for the redistribution of territory. That was repeated,

and not merely once repeated. The Greek inhabitants, apart from the

kingdom of Greece, are a considerable element in the Turkish Empire,

and it is of the greatest importance that their interests should be

sedulously attended to. One of the many evils of that large Slav

State--the Bulgaria of the San Stefano treaty--was, that it would have

absorbed, and made utterly to disappear from the earth, a considerable

Greek population. At the Congress the Greeks were heard, and they were

heard by representatives of considerable eloquence and ability; but it

was quite clear, the moment they put their case before the Congress,

that they had totally misapprehended the reason why the Congress had

met together, and what were its objects and character. The Greek

representatives, evidently, had not in any way relinquished what they

call their great idea--and your Lordships well know that it is one

that has no limit which does not reach as far as Constantinople. But

they did mention at the Congress, as a practical people, and feeling

that they had no chance of obtaining at that moment all they

desired--that they were willing to accept as an instalment the two

large provinces of Epirus and Thessaly, and the island of Crete. It

was quite evident to the Congress, that the representatives of Greece

utterly misunderstood the objects of our labours--that we were not

there to partition Turkey, and give them their share of Turkey, but

for a very contrary purpose--as far as we could to re-establish

the dominion of the Sultan on a rational basis, to condense and

concentrate his authority, and to take the opportunity--of which we

have largely availed ourselves--of improving the condition of his

subjects. I trust, therefore, when I have pointed out to your

Lordships this cardinal error in the views of Greece, that your

Lordships will feel that the charge made against the Congress has

no substantial foundation. But the interests of Greece were not

neglected, and least of all by Her Majesty's Government. Before the

Congress of Berlin, believing that there was an opportunity of which

considerable advantage might be made for Greece without deviating into

partition, we applied to the Porte to consider the long-vexed question

of the boundaries of the two States. The boundaries of Greece have

always been inadequate and inconvenient; they are so formed as to

offer a premium to brigandage--which is the curse of both countries,

and has led to misunderstanding and violent intercourse between

the inhabitants of both. Now, when some redistribution--and a

considerable redistribution--of territories was about to take

place--now, we thought, was the opportunity for Greece to urge her

claim; and that claim we were ready to support, and to reconcile the

Porte to viewing it in a large and liberal manner. And I am bound to

say that the manner in which our overtures were received by the Porte

was encouraging, and more than encouraging. For a long period Her

Majesty's Government have urged upon both countries, and especially

upon Greece, the advantage of a good understanding between them. We

urged that it was only by union between Turks and Greeks that any

reaction could be obtained against that overpowering Slav interest

which was then exercising such power in the Peninsula, and which had

led to this fatal and disastrous war. More than this, on more than

one occasion--I may say, on many occasions--we have been the means of

preventing serious misunderstandings between Turkey and Greece, and on

every occasion we have received from both States an acknowledgement of

our good offices. We were, therefore, in a position to assist Greece

in this matter. But, of course, to give satisfaction to a State which

coveted Constantinople for its capital, and which talked of accepting

large provinces and a powerful island as only an instalment of its

claims for the moment, was difficult. It was difficult to get the

views of that Government accepted by Turkey, however inclined it might

be to consider a reconstruction of frontiers on a large and liberal

scale. My noble friend the Secretary of State did use all his

influence, and the result was that, in my opinion, Greece has obtained

a considerable accession of resources and strength. But we did not

find, on the part of the representatives of Greece, that response

or that sympathy which we should have desired. Their minds were

in another quarter. But though the Congress could not meet such

extravagant and inconsistent views as those urged by Greece--views

which were not in any way within the scope of the Congress or the

area of its duty--we have still, as will be found in the Treaty,

or certainly in the Protocol, indicated what we believe to be a

rectification of frontier, which would add considerably to the

strength and resources of Greece. Therefore, I think, under all the

circumstances, it will be acknowledged that Greece has not been

neglected. Greece is a country so interesting that it enlists the

sympathies of all educated men. Greece has a future, and I would say,

if I might be permitted, to Greece, what I would say to an individual

who has a future--'Learn to be patient.'

Now, my Lords, I have touched upon most of the points connected with

Turkey in Europe. My summary is that at this moment--of course, no

longer counting Servia or Roumania, once tributary principalities, as

part of Turkey; not counting even the new Bulgaria, though it is a

tributary principality, as part of Turkey; and that I may not be

taunted with taking an element which I am hardly entitled to place in

the calculation, omitting even Bosnia--European Turkey still remains

a Dominion of 60,000 geographical square miles, with a population of

6,000,000, and that population in a very great degree concentrated and

condensed in the provinces contiguous to the capital. My Lords, it

was said, when the line of the Balkans was carried--and it was not

carried until after long and agitating discussions--it was said by

that illustrious statesman who presided over our labours, that 'Turkey

in Europe once more exists'. My Lords, I do not think that, so far as

European Turkey is concerned, this country has any right to complain

of the decisions of the Congress, or, I would hope, of the labours of

the Plenipotentiaries. You cannot look at the map of Turkey as it had

been left by the Treaty of San Stefano, and as it has been rearranged

by the Treaty of Berlin, without seeing that great results have

accrued. If these results had been the consequences of a long war--if

they had been the results of a struggle like that we underwent in the

Crimea--I do not think they would have been even then unsubstantial

or unsatisfactory. My Lords, I hope that you and the country will not

forget that these results have been obtained without shedding the

blood of a single Englishman; and if there has been some expenditure,

it has been an expenditure which, at least, has shown the resources

and determination of this country. Had you entered into that war--for

which you were prepared--and well prepared--probably in a month you

would have exceeded the whole expenditure you have now incurred.

My Lords, I now ask you for a short time to quit Europe and to visit

Asia, and consider the labours of the Congress in another quarter of

the world. My Lords, you well know that the Russian arms met with

great success in Asia, and that in the Treaty of San Stefano

considerable territories were yielded by Turkey to Russia. In point of

population, they may not appear to be of that importance that they are

generally considered; because it is a fact which should be borne

in mind that the population which was yielded to Russia by Turkey

amounted only to about 250,000 souls; and, therefore, if you look to

the question of population, and to the increase of strength to a

State which depends on population, you would hardly believe that the

acquisition of 250,000 new subjects is a sufficient return for the

terrible military losses which inevitably must accrue from campaigns

in that country. But although the amount of population was not

considerable, the strength which the Russians acquired was of very

different character. They obtained Kars by conquest--they obtained

Ardahan--another stronghold--they obtained Bayazid--and the Valley

of Alashkerd with the adjoining territory, which contain the great

commercial routes in that part of the world. They also obtained the

port of Batoum. Now, my Lords, the Congress of Berlin have so far

sanctioned the Treaty of San Stefano that, with the exception of

Bayazid and the valley which I have mentioned--no doubt very

important exceptions, and which were yielded by Russia to the views

of the Congress--they have consented to the yielding of the places I

have named to Russia. The Congress have so far approved the Treaty of

San Stefano that they have sanctioned the retention by Russia of Kars

and Batoum. Now the question arises--the Congress having come to that

determination--was it a wise step on the part of the Plenipotentiaries

of Her Majesty to agree to that decision? That is a question which may

legitimately be asked. We might have broken up the Congress, and said,

'We will not consent to the retention of these places by Russia, and

we will use our force to oblige her to yield them up.' Now, my Lords,

I wish fairly to consider what was our position in this state of

affairs. It is often argued as if Russia and England had been at war,

and peace was negotiating between the two Powers. That was not the

case. The rest of Europe were critics over a Treaty which was a real

treaty that existed between Russia and Turkey. Turkey had given up

Batoum, she had given up Kars and Ardahan, she had given up Bayazid.

In an examination of the question, then, we must remember that Russia

at this moment, so far as Europe is concerned, has acquired in Europe

nothing but a very small portion of territory, occupied by 130,000

inhabitants. Well, she naturally expected to find some reward in her

conquests in Armenia for the sacrifices which she had made. Well, my

Lords, consider what those conquests are. There was the strong fort of

Kars. We might have gone to war with Russia in order to prevent her

acquiring Kars and Batoum, and other places of less importance. The

war would not have been, probably, a very short war. It would have

been a very expensive war--and, like most wars, it would probably have

ended in some compromise, and we should have got only half what we had

struggled for. Let us look these two considerable points fairly in the

face. Let us first of all take the great stronghold of Kars. Three

times has Russia captured Kars. Three times, either by our influence

or by other influences, it has been restored to Turkey. Were we to go

to war for Kars and restore it to Turkey, and then to wait till the

next misunderstanding between Russia and Turkey, when Kars should have

been taken again? Was that an occasion of a _casus belli_? I do not

think your Lordships would ever sanction a war carried on for such an

object and under such circumstances.

Then, my Lords, look at the case of Batoum, of which your Lordships

have heard so much. I should have been very glad if Batoum had

remained in the possession of the Turks, on the general principle that

the less we had reduced its territory in that particular portion of

the globe, the better it would be as regards the prestige on which the

influence of the Ottoman Porte much depends there. But let us see what

is this Batoum of which you have heard so much? It is generally

spoken of in society and in the world as if it were a sort of

Portsmouth--whereas, in reality, it should rather be compared with

Cowes. It will hold three considerable ships, and if it were packed

like the London Docks, it might hold six; but in that case the danger,

if the wind blew from the north, would be immense. You cannot increase

the port seaward; for though the water touching the shore is not

absolutely fathomless, it is extremely deep, and you cannot make any

artificial harbour or breakwater. Unquestionably, in the interior the

port might be increased, but it can only be increased by first-rate

engineers, and by the expenditure of millions of capital; and if we

were to calculate the completion of the port by the precedents which

exist in many countries, and certainly in the Black Sea, it would not

be completed under half a century. Now is that a question for which

England would be justified in going to war with Russia? My Lords,

we have, therefore, thought it advisable not to grudge Russia those

conquests that have been made--especially after obtaining the

restoration of the town of Bayazid and its important district.

But it seemed to us the time had come when we ought to consider

whether certain efforts should not be made to put an end to these

perpetually recurring wars between the Porte and Russia, ending, it

may be, sometimes apparently in comparatively insignificant results;

but always terminating with one fatal consequence--namely, shaking to

the centre the influence and the prestige of the Porte in Asia and

diminishing its means of profitably and advantageously governing that

country. My Lords, it seemed to us that as we had now taken, and

as Europe generally had taken, so avowedly deep an interest in the

welfare of the subjects of the Porte in Europe, the time had come when

we ought to consider whether we could not do something which would

improve the general condition of the dominions of the Sultan in Asia;

and, instead of these most favoured portions of the globe every year

being in a more forlorn and disadvantageous position, whether it

would not be possible to take some steps which would secure at least

tranquillity and order; and, when tranquillity and order were secured,

whether some opportunity might not be given to Europe to develop the

resources of a country which Nature has made so rich and teeming. My

Lords, we occupy with respect to this part of the world a peculiar

position, which is shared by no other Power. Our Indian Empire is on

every occasion on which these discussions occur, or these troubles

occur, or these settlements occur--our Indian Empire is to England a

source of grave anxiety, and the time appeared to have arrived when,

if possible, we should terminate that anxiety. In all the questions

connected with European Turkey we had the assistance and sympathy

sometimes of all, and often of many, of the European Powers--because

they were interested in the question who should possess

Constantinople, and who should have the command of the Danube and

the freedom of the Mediterranean. But when we came to considerations

connected with our Oriental Empire itself, they naturally are not so

generally interested as they are in those which relate to the European

portion of the Dominions of the Porte, and we have to look to our own

resources alone. There has been no want, on our part, of invitations

to neutral Powers to join with us in preventing or in arresting war.

Besides the great Treaty of Paris, there was the Tripartite Treaty,

which, if acted upon, would have prevented war. But that treaty could

not be acted upon, from the unwillingness of the parties to it to

act; and therefore we must clearly perceive that if anything could be

effectually arranged, as far as our Oriental Empire is concerned, the

arrangements must be made by ourselves. Now, this was the origin of

that Convention at Constantinople which is on your Lordship's table,

and in that Convention our object was not merely a military or chiefly

a military object. Our object was to place this country certainly in a

position in which its advice and in which its conduct might at least

have the advantage of being connected with a military power and

with that force which it is necessary to possess often in great

transactions, though you may not fortunately feel that it is necessary

to have recourse to that force. Our object in entering into that

arrangement with Turkey was, as I said before, to produce tranquillity

and order. When tranquillity and order were produced, we believed that

the time would come when the energy and enterprise of Europe might be

invited to what really is another Continent, as far as the experience

of man is concerned, and that its development will add greatly not

merely to the wealth and the prosperity of the inhabitants, but to the

wealth and prosperity of Europe. My Lords, I am surprised to hear--for

though I have not heard it myself from any authority, it is so

generally in men's mouths that I am bound to notice it--that the step

we have taken should be represented as one that is calculated to

excite the suspicion or enmity of any of our Allies, or of any State.

My Lords, I am convinced that when a little time has elapsed, and

when people are better acquainted with this subject than they are at

present, no one will accuse England of having acted in this matter but

with frankness and consideration for other Powers. And if there be

a Power in existence to which we have endeavoured to show most

consideration from particular circumstances in this matter it is

France. There is no step of this kind that I would take without

considering the effect it might have upon the feelings of France--a

nation to whom we are bound by almost every tie that can unite a

people, and with whom our intimacy is daily increasing. If there could

be any step which of all others was least calculated to excite the

suspicion of France it would appear to be this--because we avoided

Egypt, knowing how susceptible France is with regard to Egypt; we

avoided Syria, knowing how susceptible France is on the subject of

Syria; and we avoided availing ourselves of any part of the _terra

firma_, because we would not hurt the feelings or excite the

suspicions of France. France knows that for the last two or three

years we have listened to no appeal which involved anything like an

acquisition of territory, because the territory which might have come

to us would have been territory which France would see in our hands

with suspicion and dislike. But I must make this observation to

your Lordships. We have a substantial interest in the East; it is a

commanding interest, and its behest must be obeyed. But the

interest of France in Egypt, and her interest in Syria are, as she

acknowledges, sentimental and traditionary interests; and, although I

respect them, I wish to see in the Lebanon and in Egypt the influence

of France fairly and justly maintained, and although her officers and

ours in that part of the world--and especially in Egypt--are acting

together with confidence and trust, we must remember that our

connexion with the East is not merely an affair of sentiment and

tradition, but that we have urgent and substantial and enormous

interests which we must guard and keep. Therefore, when we find that

the progress of Russia is a progress which, whatever may be the

intentions of Russia, necessarily in that part of the world produces

such a state of disorganization and want of confidence in the Porte,

it comes to this--that if we do not interfere in the vindication

of our own interests, that part of Asia must become the victim of

anarchy, and ultimately become part of the possessions of Russia.

Now, my Lords, I have ventured to review the chief points connected

with the subject on which I wished to address you--namely, what was

the policy pursued by us, both at the Congress of Berlin and in the

Convention of Constantinople. I am told, indeed, that we have incurred

an awful responsibility by the Convention into which we have entered.

My Lords, a prudent Minister certainly would not recklessly enter

into any responsibility; but a Minister who is afraid to enter into

responsibility is, to my mind, not a prudent Minister. We do not, my

Lords, wish to enter into any unnecessary responsibility; but there is

one responsibility from which we certainly shrink; we shrink from the

responsibility of handing to our successors a diminished or a weakened

Empire. Our opinion is that the course we have taken will arrest the

great evils which are destroying Asia Minor and the equally rich

countries beyond. We see in the present state of affairs the Porte

losing its influence over its subjects; we see a certainty, in our

opinion, of increasing anarchy, of the dissolution of all those ties

which, though feeble, yet still exist and which have kept society

together in those countries. We see the inevitable result of such a

state of things, and we cannot blame Russia for availing herself

of it. But, yielding to Russia what she has obtained, we say to

her--'Thus far, and no farther.' Asia is large enough for both of us.

There is no reason for these constant wars, or fears of wars, between

Russia and England. Before the circumstances which led to the recent

disastrous war, when none of those events which we have seen agitating

the world had occurred, and when we were speaking in 'another place'

of the conduct of Russia in Central Asia, I vindicated that conduct,

which I thought was unjustly attacked, and I said then, what I repeat

now--there is room enough for Russia and England in Asia. But the

room that we require we must secure. We have, therefore, entered into

an alliance--defensive alliance--with Turkey, to guard her against

any further attack from Russia. We believe that the result of this

Convention will be order and tranquillity. And then it will be

for Europe--for we ask no exclusive privileges or commercial

advantages--it will then be for Europe to assist England in availing

ourselves of the wealth which has been so long neglected and

undeveloped in regions once so fertile and so favoured. We are told,

as I have said before, that we are undertaking great responsibilities.

From those responsibilities we do not shrink. We think that, with

prudence and discretion, we shall bring about a state of affairs as

advantageous for Europe as for ourselves; and in that conviction

we cannot bring ourselves to believe that the act which we have

recommended is one that leads to trouble and to warfare. No, my Lords.

I am sure there will be no jealousy between England and France upon

this subject.

In taking Cyprus the movement is not Mediterranean; it is Indian. We

have taken a step there which we think necessary for the maintenance

of our Empire and for its preservation in peace. If that be our first

consideration, our next is the development of the country. And upon

that subject I am told that it was expected to-night that I should

in detail lay before the House the minute system by which all those

results, which years may bring about, are instantly to be acquired.

I, my Lords, am prepared to do nothing of the kind. We must act with

considerable caution. We are acting with a Power, let me remind the

House, which is an independent Power--the Sultan--and we can

decide nothing but with his consent and sanction. We have been in

communication with that prince--who, I may be allowed to remind the

House, has other things to think about, even than Asia Minor; for no

man was ever tried, from his accession to the throne till this moment,

so severely as the Sultan has been; but he has invariably during his

reign expressed his desire to act with England and to act with Europe,

and especially in the better administration and management of his

affairs. The time will come--and I hope it is not distant--when my

noble friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs may be able to

communicate to the House details of these matters, which will be most

interesting. But we must protest against being forced into statements

on matters of importance which are necessarily still immature. And we

must remember that, formally speaking, even the Treaty of Berlin has

not been ratified, and there are many things which cannot even be

commenced until the ratification of that treaty has occurred.

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