The testimony of Pauline Virginia Bates was taken at 5:32 p.m., on
March 25, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office
Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Albert E.
Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Bates, will you stand and be sworn, please?
Do you solemnly swear in your testimony which you are about to give, to
tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mrs. BATES. I do.
Mr. JENNER. It's Mrs. Bates, is it not?
Mrs. BATES. It's Miss. I'm not married. It's optional--I have been. My
name is Pauline.
Mr. JENNER. Pauline Virginia--isn't it?
Mrs. BATES. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. This is Pauline Virginia Bates.
Mrs. Bates, I am Albert E. Jenner, Jr. I am a member of the legal staff
for the Presidential Assassination Commission and have been authorized
by the Commission to depose you--take your deposition, make inquiries
of you with respect to the subject matter of the inquiry of the
Commission.
Did you receive, oh, last week, I would think, a letter from J. Lee
Rankin, general counsel for the Commission?
Mrs. BATES. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And enclosed with that letter is a copy of the Executive
order of President Lyndon B. Johnson on November 29, 1963, Number
11130, and a copy of the Senate Joint Resolution, Number 137,
authorizing the creation of the Commission, together with a copy of the
Rules of Procedure of the Commission?
Mrs. BATES. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And, Mrs. Bates, you appear voluntarily at our request?
Mrs. BATES. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. The Commission, as you have noted from those enclosed
papers, has been ordered, directed to inquire into all facts and
circumstances surrounding, leading up to, and those appearing after the
assassination of John F. Kennedy, the President of the United States,
and any contacts on your part with any of the parties.
We understand that you, during his lifetime, had some contact with Lee
Harvey Oswald and I think, in fact, transcribed some manuscript notes
of his?
Mrs. BATES. They weren't transcribed; they were copied.
Mr. JENNER. You copied them?
Mrs. BATES. Uh-huh.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I meant transcribed in that sense. You transcribed
them from longhand into typing?
Mrs. BATES. Well, some of them were typewritten, some of them were
written in longhand pencil, some of it was written in pen.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, is that so.
Mrs. BATES. It was scraps of paper. Some of it was on just like bag
paper. Some of it was just little scraps of paper--whatever he could
find.
Mr. JENNER. Where do you reside now?
Mrs. BATES. In Fort Worth.
Mr. JENNER. And how long have you resided in Fort Worth?
Mrs. BATES. Ten years last November.
Mr. JENNER. What is your business, occupation, or profession?
Mrs. BATES. I'm a legal public stenographer.
Mr. JENNER. And how long have you been a legal public stenographer?
Mrs. BATES. In Fort Worth, 10 years--a little over 10 years.
Mr. JENNER. And is there a difference between being a legal public
stenographer and a public stenographer?
Mrs. BATES. Well, I think so. I think I'm the only one in Fort Worth
that has legal training.
Mr. JENNER. That's what I wish to bring out. You are a public
stenographer and you seek to direct your talents primarily toward law
work?
Mrs. BATES. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Lawyers, court reporting, and that sort of thing?
Mrs. BATES. Uh-huh--well, I haven't done any court reporting. I have
done work for court reporters--transcribe for them, and things like
that.
Mr. JENNER. Are you a citizen of the United States?
Mrs. BATES. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You are a native born American?
Mrs. BATES. Yes, sir--Forest Grove, Oreg.
Mr. JENNER. How long have you resided in the Fort Worth-Dallas area?
Mrs. BATES. Ten years last November.
Mr. JENNER. And you came from where?
Mrs. BATES. Oakland, Calif.
Mr. JENNER. And what was your business or occupation when you were in
Oakland, Calif.?
Mrs. BATES. Legal stenographer--legal secretary.
Mr. JENNER. That has always been your--insofar as you have had a
business or occupation--it's been that?
Mrs. BATES. Except during the war when I worked in the shipyards.
Mr. JENNER. Out on the coast?
Mrs. BATES. Richmond. I have also been a waitress.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Bates, if anything seems personal to you, it's not
intended as being personal. I'm trying to set the background. And you
are at liberty at any time to say to me that you think maybe I'm going
too far.
Mrs. BATES. I don't have anything to hide.
Mr. JENNER. All right. I'm sure you don't.
During the time you lived in the Fort Worth-Dallas area, did you have
occasion to come in contact with a person known as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. BATES. He was known to me as Lee Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. All right. With a person known as Lee Oswald? And, just so
we understand each other, is the person you knew as Lee Oswald and the
person I just called Lee Harvey Oswald the person that you understand
to be the man who was accused of the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mrs. BATES. Yes. He was one and the same person. I recognized him.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. Now, tell me the circumstances under which that
acquaintanceship arose.
Mrs. BATES. He walked into my office one day, said he had gotten my
name out of the telephone directory. It so happens it's the first one
in the public stenographers.
Mr. JENNER. And how was he attired on that occasion?
Mrs. BATES. He had dark trousers on, a white T-shirt and a blazer-type
jacket--a dark blazer-type jacket.
Mr. JENNER. And since he had the T-shirt, he had no tie on?
Mrs. BATES. No; didn't have a shirt on.
Mr. JENNER. No shirt?
Mrs. BATES. Just a little white T-shirt--undershirt.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. BATES. It was in June.
Mr. JENNER. In June? What time of the day or night was it?
Mrs. BATES. It was in the morning. Let's see--I turned those records
over to the FBI.
Mr. JENNER. Well, give me your best recollection.
Mrs. BATES. I think it was around 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning, on
the 18th of June 1962.
Mr. JENNER. All right. What was said by him and by you?
Mrs. BATES. He asked if I could do some typing for him.
Mr. JENNER. Did he identify himself first?
Mrs. BATES. No. He just walked in. It's not uncommon for people to walk
in and say, "Miss Bates, can you do some typing for me?" And I said,
"Yes, I could, what was it?" And he said it was--that he was--then, he
told me he was Lee Oswald. He said, "First, I want to find out what
your prices are and see if I can afford it." So, I gave him my price.
Mr. JENNER. And what did you say?
Mrs. BATES. I said it was either 2-1/2 an hour or a dollar a page.
Mr. JENNER. A page being 8-1/2 by 11--letter-size sheets?
Mrs. BATES. Yes; uh-huh. And I told him it all depended on what the
work was and could I see what it was. And he said, "Yes." And he
brought out this large manilla envelope, legal size--oh, I think it was
10 by 14 or something--one of those large ones. And he said, "I have
some notes here"----