Mr. LIEBELER. She is with the New York State Department----

Mr. ISAACS. The Department of Social Welfare. Then Miss Elliott called

the U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, and, of course,

we understand that this is the means they used to get the information,

and they call Washington, and when they have this information it is

relayed back in the same way. And then the administrator tells us,

yes, he is a repatriate. And in this instance, this is what actually

happened, as I remember it. We were told that they were.

Now, we have a policy of calling whatever relatives are available

to determine whether relatives could meet the cost of their return.

In this instance he asked to be returned to Texas, and we did get

enough information in our application blank to show that there was a

brother--I believe it was Robert--who lived in Texas, and I made a

telephone call to the brother. The brother was not in, and I spoke with

his wife--I don't remember her first name--and I told her that Mr.

Oswald was here with his wife and infant, and they wanted to return to

Texas, and would they be able to raise sufficient funds to meet this

cost. She was very happy, apparently, to learn that they had arrived

already--evidently they had some advance notice--and she immediately

said she will call her husband and make arrangements to send this

money--I don't remember the amount that was involved.

Mr. LIEBELER. Was Oswald present at the time you made this telephone

call?

Mr. ISAACS. No, no. I make that call in my own office. We never make it

in their presence.

Now, when I got this information, and she told me--her name was also

Oswald, Mrs. Robert Oswald, we will say--she told me that this money

would be sent. I went in, and this was the first contact that I had

with Mr. Oswald. I--excuse me----

Mr. LIEBELER. You first called the home of Robert Oswald in Texas and

spoke to his wife?

Mr. ISAACS. That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER. And she told you that she would call her husband and find

out if they could make the money available? Did she then call you back?

Mr. ISAACS. I can't remember whether it was just that way. I'm

uncertain about that. I'm sorry about that. I think that she said, "I

will call him and send the money." I'm not positive, but I think that's

the way it happened, because I don't remember her calling me back.

In any event, I gave her all the information, gave her my name. We

always, in this kind of thing, because when the money comes in, they

don't know to whom to direct the money. So I gave her my name and

told her to send the money attention Martin Isaacs. When I went in

and told the Oswalds about this--Mrs. Oswald, of course, cannot speak

English--at that time.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you try to speak to her?

Mr. ISAACS. I tried to speak to her, but she couldn't speak a single

word. And he told me that she can't speak any English. But when I told

him that I contacted his sister-in-law, he was quite angered, he was

really very upset, and told us, told me that he did not want to accept

this money, that this was a brother who did not have a large income,

and that we should meet this cost ourselves. And I told him what our

policy was, that in all instances we are required by law to request

that relatives or friends, if there are such friends available, meet

these expenses, if they can.

Now, in this instance, his sister-in-law said that she would send the

money, so we would have to accept this. He did not want to accept our

decision on this. He insisted that he see the administrator of our

office, because he wanted to protest my having made this phone call and

asking for the money.

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