The testimony of Martin Isaacs was taken on April 16, 1964, at the U.S.
courthouse, Foley Square, New York, N.Y. by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Martin Isaacs, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified
as follows:
Mr. LIEBELER. My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am an attorney on
the legal staff of the President's Commission investigating the
assassination of President Kennedy. Staff members have been authorized
to take the testimony of witnesses by the Commission pursuant to
authority granted to the Commission by Executive Order No. 11130, dated
November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137.
The Commission has also established rules of procedure governing the
taking of testimony from witnesses, and under those rules of procedure
each witness is to be furnished with a copy of the Executive order and
joint resolution to which I referred, as well as with a copy of the
rules governing the taking of testimony.
The Commission will provide you with a set of those documents.
Under the rules governing the taking of testimony, each witness is
entitled to 3 days' notice before he is required to appear and give
testimony. I don't know whether you actually received 3 days' notice or
not, but----
Mr. ISAACS. They told me yesterday about it. It's quite all right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Each witness is able to waive that notice, and I presume
that you do wish to waive it.
Mr. ISAACS. I waive, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Thank you, sir.
We want to inquire briefly of you today concerning any contacts which
you or your office may have had with Lee Harvey Oswald and his family
upon Oswald's return from Russia in approximately June of 1962.
Before we get into the details of that testimony, however, would you
state your full name for the record?
Mr. ISAACS. Martin Isaacs.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you live, sir?
Mr. ISAACS. 1669 Grand Avenue, Bronx, New York.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where are you employed at the present time?
Mr. ISAACS. I am employed by the Special Services Welfare Center,
Department of Welfare, City of New York, 42 Franklin Street.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you so employed in June of 1962?
Mr. ISAACS. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. When and where were you born, Mr. Isaacs?
Mr. ISAACS. I was born in Hungary, December 12, 1904.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you come to the United States?
Mr. ISAACS. I was about 2 or 3 years old. I don't recall exactly.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you presently a citizen of this country?
Mr. ISAACS. I am a citizen, yes; derivative citizenship.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your parents?
Mr. ISAACS. My father became a citizen, and, of course, I received
derivative citizenship.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you employed by the department of welfare?
Mr. ISAACS. Since May 12, 1934.
Mr. LIEBELER. And this is the Department of Welfare of the City of New
York; is that correct?
Mr. ISAACS. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recall personally coming into contact with Lee
Harvey Oswald and his family?
Mr. ISAACS. I do recall coming into personal contact; yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you give us the best recollection that you have
concerning that event?
Mr. ISAACS. I was told by our intake, I believe it was, that the family
was in the Welfare Center. If I recollect correctly, I think the
Travelers Aid Society sent them here. I am not positive about this.
My worker, Mr. Lehrman, as I remember, was not available at the time to
go in and see the family. I believe he was in the field at the time.
He is a social investigator in the Department of Welfare. I went in to
ascertain whether I could expedite getting the information that would
be needed to help this family return to Texas.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had been informed at that time that they desired to
return to Texas?
Mr. ISAACS. Yes; the intake worker, I can't remember who it was at
the moment--I am sorry, I don't remember the name of the worker who
handled the family inside of our intake--told us that this family was
in the office, and I think we obtained sufficient information at the
time to make a clearance to determine whether the family is actually a
repatriated family.
In many instances people come to us and tell us that they were
repatriated when in effect they weren't. They are, in other words, sent
here incorrectly to our office. When we clear, we find out that they
are not repatriates, and so they must be handled in a different manner.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you say "repatriates," what do you mean, sir?
Mr. ISAACS. A repatriate is one who is a United States citizen, who
was living abroad and finds himself, either because of economic
circumstances or because of ill health unable to maintain himself
there, and so they go--either they go directly to our Embassy in the
country in which they reside or they are directed to go there or the
Embassy learns about this from the government in which they live, and
so they are helped to return to the United States. In some instances
they ask to be returned. In other instances they are ordered to be
returned. For example, if the person is mentally ill. In this case we
did clear, and we ascertained that they were repatriates, and so the
role that I played in this as I remember--using my memory here----
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me ask you this, if I may, Mr. Isaacs, before you go
into that.
Mr. ISAACS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember how you determined that the Oswald family
was a repatriated family?
Mr. ISAACS. Yes. This is the way it was done: We get the information
from the family. In this instance I think it was done by the intake
worker. He got certain facts. I assume that Mr. Oswald gave them all
these facts, that he went to Russia in a certain period of his life,
and what happened there, and then when he returned and why he returned.
When we get all this data, we present that to our administrator, Mrs.
Ruscoll, and she contacts the New York State Department of Social
Welfare, who is the immediate representative, to determine these facts.
The person that she would call is a Miss Elliott, Miss Lula Jean
Elliott.