The testimony of Evelyn Grace Strickman Siegel was taken at 2:39 p.m.,
on April 17, 1964, at the U.S. Courthouse, Foley Square, New York,
N.Y., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's
Commission.
Evelyn Grace Strickman Siegel, having been first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Siegel, my name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am a member
of the legal staff of the President's Commission investigating the
assassination of President Kennedy. Staff members have been authorized
to take the testimony of witnesses by the Commission pursuant to
authority granted to the Commission by Executive Order No. 11130, dated
November 29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137.
Pursuant to the authority so granted to it, the Commission has
promulgated certain rules governing the taking of testimony from
witnesses, which provide, among other things, that each witness is
entitled to 3 days' notice before he or she is required to give
testimony. I know you didn't get 3 days' notice of this, but each
witness also has the power to waive that notice, and I assume that you
will be willing to waive that notice, and go ahead with the testimony
since you are here. Is that correct?
Mrs. SIEGEL. Yes. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. We want to advise you also that the rules provide that
if you wish to have a copy of your transcript, you may have it at your
own expense, at such time as the Commission releases the transcripts,
releases the testimony, and that you are entitled to counsel if you
wish. You don't have counsel here, and I assume you do not wish it.
Mrs. SIEGEL. No. I do not wish it. Will I be advised when the
transcripts are released?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes. The Commission understands that you were working as
a social worker in 1953 and 1954, at which time Lee Harvey Oswald and
his mother lived here in New York City. Before we go into the details
of that, I would like to have you state your full name for the record,
if you would.
Mrs. SIEGEL. Evelyn Grace Strickman Siegel.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you live?
Mrs. SIEGEL. 1347 River Road, Teaneck.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where were you born?
Mrs. SIEGEL. New York City.
Mr. LIEBELER. And am I correct in understanding that you did work in
New York as a social worker?
Mrs. SIEGEL. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you begin working as a social worker?
Mrs. SIEGEL. In March of 1950.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long did you continue in that work?
Mrs. SIEGEL. I'm still working as a social worker.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the city?
Mrs. SIEGEL. Yes; on a part-time basis.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you outline briefly for us your educational
background?
Mrs. SIEGEL. A.B., Hunter College; M.S., Columbia University, School of
Social Work.
Mr. LIEBELER. And in 1953, at the time that you did have contact with
the Oswalds, you had been doing social work for about 3 years; is that
correct?
Mrs. SIEGEL. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. For whom did you work as a social worker?
Mrs. SIEGEL. Youth House.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you still working for Youth House?
Mrs. SIEGEL. No; I'm not.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you begin working for Youth House and when did
you terminate your employment with Youth House?
Mrs. SIEGEL. I began working for them in January of 1952, and I left in
August--well, I left Youth House for Girls, which is part of the same
institution setup, in August of 1958.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you describe for us briefly the nature of the Youth
House as it existed in 1953?
Mrs. SIEGEL. In what aspect?
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of institution was it? What kind of people went
there? What was done with them there? Will you tell me?
Mrs. SIEGEL. It was a remand center for boys, delinquent boys who had
gotten into trouble with the court and were remanded to Youth House for
a brief period of diagnostic study. Upon their reappearance in court,
so far as I understood it, those children who had been assigned for
diagnostic study went back to court accompanied by a report from Youth
House, which was given to the judge.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of a report was this? What was in it? What did
it say?
Mrs. SIEGEL. A full-scale diagnostic study includes a social history
taken by the social worker after one or several interviews with the boy
and an interview with a parent, as well as an interview with the Youth
House psychiatrist; that is, the boy was interviewed by the Youth House
psychiatrist. All this material was then typed up and sent to court.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who was the Youth House psychiatrist?
Mrs. SIEGEL. Dr. Renatus Hartogs.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Dr. Hartogs personally interview each boy, or were
there other psychiatrists who sometimes interviewed the boys and
reported, do you know?
Mrs. SIEGEL. First of all, let me say that not every boy was seen by
a psychiatrist or a social worker. Also, the caseload was shared from
time to time by other psychiatrists on the staff of Youth House, not by
Dr. Hartogs alone.
Mr. LIEBELER. There was a report of the psychiatrist, then, a report
of the social worker, and were there any other reports of any other
workers, generally speaking, attached to the court report?
Mrs. SIEGEL. Incorporated into the social worker's report was a report
from those workers on the floor where the boy lived, the counselors,
so to speak, brief reports as to his behavior and so on.
Mr. LIEBELER. Those would be given to the social workers; is that
correct?
Mrs. SIEGEL. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And used as a basis for the social worker's report?
Mrs. SIEGEL. Not as a basis for it but incorporated into it.
Mr. LIEBELER. So as a general proposition, the reports of people from
the floor would be before the social worker when she prepared her
report and would usually be reflected in the report of the social
worker; is that correct?
Mrs. SIEGEL. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any recollection of any contact during the
course of your work as a social worker for Youth House with Lee Harvey
Oswald?
Mrs. SIEGEL. After the President's assassination, the name meant
nothing to me. As the biographies in the papers started to appear, and
it was said that this boy was in Youth House in 1953, I believe it
was, I had a vague stirring of memory, and I then said to my husband
that somehow I have a mental picture of this youngster. At the time
I attributed him not to me but to another worker. I somehow thought
that he was assigned to another worker. But I had a picture of what he
looked like, and the only reason that I think I remember him is that he
was from Texas, and he was distinctive because he had an accent that
was different from most of the children I saw, and he wore blue jeans,
which most of our kids didn't wear in those days. And that was all I
remembered about it. I remembered absolutely nothing about him at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. And your recollection of Lee Oswald is still the same as
it was at that time?
Mrs. SIEGEL. Sitting in the corner of my office, a slim, skinny little
boy.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is to say, you have not been able to refresh your
recollection?
Mrs. SIEGEL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. And improve it at all?
Mrs. SIEGEL. No.