Mr. RUBY. Volk's Apartments. I never used the phone. I wouldn't know
how to use the phone. Probably to call back to Dallas. And the only
time, Mr. McWillie had to be at the club early, so I remained a little
later in town--not often--because I saved money when I rode with him,
because they charge you quite a bit. But I didn't want to get there too
early, because to get there at 7 o'clock wasn't very lively.
Because I would always be with him for the complete evening.
We leave the place and stop somewhere to get coffee, a little
dugout--I saw Ava Gardner down there at the time when I was there. She
was visiting there.
Representative FORD. What prompted you to leave at the end of 8 days?
Mr. RUBY. I was bored because gambling isn't my profession, and when
you have a business to run, and there weren't many tourists I could get
acquainted with there.
I went to the Capri rooftop to go swimming, and went to the Nacional to
go swimming once.
Representative FORD. Did you ever go to Mexico? Have you ever been to
Mexico?
Mr. RUBY. The only time, 30 or 40 years ago, 1934.
Representative FORD. This trip to Cuba was the only time you left the
country other than military service?
Mr. RUBY. Actually I didn't leave in the military. I was stationed
three and a half years here in the States. Let's see, never out of the
United States except at one time to Havana, Cuba.
Chief Justice WARREN. Now you said there were some other things. Would
you mind telling us anything you have on your mind?
Mr. RUBY. No; because as I said earlier, you seem to have gotten the
juicy part of the story up to now in the various spasmodic way of my
telling it.
How valuable am I to you to give you all this information?
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, how valuable is rather an indefinite term,
but I think it is very helpful to our Commission report. I think the
report would have been deficient if it had not been for this interview
we have had with you.
So we are interested in anything that you would like to tell us, in
your own language.
Mr. RUBY. The only thing is this. If I cannot get these tests you give,
it is pretty haphazard to tell you the things I should tell you.
Mr. Moore, you seem to have known more about my interrogation than
anybody else, right?
Mr. MOORE. I think you have told us about everything you told me.
Mr. RANKIN. It isn't entirely clear how you feel that your family
and you yourself are threatened by your telling what you have to the
Commission.
How do you come to the conclusion that they might be killed? Will you
tell us a little bit more about that, if you can?
Mr. RUBY. Well, assuming that, as I stated before, some persons are
accusing me falsely of being part of the plot--naturally, in all the
time from over 6 months ago, my family has been so interested in
helping me.
Mr. RANKIN. By that, you mean a party to the plot of Oswald?
Mr. RUBY. That I was party to a plot to silence Oswald.
All right now, when your family believes you and knows your mannerisms
and your thoughts, and knows your sincerity, they have lived with you
all your life and know your emotional feelings and your patriotism--on
the surface, they see me only as the guilty assailant of Oswald, and by
helping me like they have, going all out.
My brother who has a successful business, I know he is going to be
killed. And I haven't seen him in years. And suddenly he feels that he
wants to help me, because he believes that I couldn't be any further
involved than the actual----
When I told him I did it because of Mrs. Kennedy, that is all he had
to hear, because I would never involve my family or involve him in a
conspiracy.
Everyone haven't let me down. Because they read the newspapers away
from Dallas that stated certain facts about me, but they are untrue,
because they wouldn't come out and put those things in the newspapers
that they should be putting in; and people outside of Dallas read
the Dallas newspapers and are all in sympathy with me, as far as the
country itself.
That they felt, well, Jack did it. They probably felt they would do the
same thing.
That sympathy isn't going to help me, because the people that have the
power here, they have a different verdict. They already have me as the
accused assassin of our beloved President.
Now if I sound screwy telling you this, then I must be screwy.
Chief Justice WARREN. Mr. Ruby, I think you are entitled to a statement
to this effect, because you have been frank with us and have told us
your story.
I think I can say to you that there has been no witness before this
Commission out of the hundreds we have questioned who has claimed to
have any personal knowledge that you were a party to any conspiracy to
kill our President.
Mr. RUBY. Yes; but you don't know this area here.
Chief Justice WARREN. No; I don't vouch for anything except that I
think I am correct in that, am I not?
Mr. RANKIN. That is correct.
Chief Justice WARREN. I just wanted to tell you before our own
Commission, and I might say to you also that we have explored the
situation.
Mr. RUBY. I know, but I want to say this to you. If certain people have
the means and want to gain something by propagandizing something to
their own use, they will make ways to present certain things that I do
look guilty.
Chief Justice WARREN. Well. I will make this additional statement to
you, that if any witness should testify before the Commission that you
were, to their knowledge, a party to any conspiracy to assassinate the
President, I assure you that we will give you the opportunity to deny
it and to take any tests that you may desire to so disprove it.
I don't anticipate that there will be any such testimony, but should
there be, we will give you that opportunity.
Does that seem fair?
Mr. RUBY. No; that isn't going to save my family.
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, we can't do everything at once.
Mr. RUBY. I am in a tough spot, and I don't know what the solution can
be to save me.
And I know our wonderful President, Lyndon Johnson, as soon as he was
the President of his country, he appointed you as head of this group.
But through certain falsehoods that have been said about me to other
people, the John Birch Society, I am as good as guilty as the accused
assassin of President Kennedy.
How can you remedy that, Mr. Warren? Do any of you men have any ways of
remedying that?
Mr. Bill Decker said be a man and speak up. I am making a statement now
that I may not live the next hour when I walk out of this room.
Now it is the most fantastic story you have ever heard in a lifetime.
I did something out of the goodness of my heart. Unfortunately, Chief
Earl Warren, had you been around 5 or 6 months ago, and I know your
hands were tied, you couldn't do it, and immediately the President
would have gotten ahold of my true story, or whatever would have been
said about me, a certain organization wouldn't have so completely
formed now, so powerfully, to use me because I am of the Jewish
extraction, Jewish faith, to commit the most dastardly crime that has
ever been committed.
Can you understand now in visualizing, what happened, what powers, what
momentum has been carried on to create this feeling of mass feeling
against my people, against certain people that were against them prior
to their power?
That goes over your head, doesn't it?
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, I don't quite get the full significance of
it, Mr. Ruby. I know what you feel about the John Birch Society.
Mr. RUBY. Very powerful.
Chief Justice WARREN. I think it is powerful, yes I do. Of course, I
don't have all the information that you feel you have on that subject.
Mr. RUBY. Unfortunately, you don't have, because it is too late. And
I wish that our beloved President, Lyndon Johnson, would have delved
deeper into the situation, hear me, not to accept just circumstantial
facts about my guilt or innocence, and would have questioned to find
out the truth about me before he relinquished certain powers to these
certain people.
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, I am afraid I don't know what power you
believe he relinquished to them. I think that it is difficult to
understand what you have to say.
Mr. RUBY. I want to say this to you. The Jewish people are being
exterminated at this moment. Consequently, a whole new form of
government is going to take over our country, and I know I won't live
to see you another time.
Do I sound sort of screwy in telling you these things?
Chief Justice WARREN. No; I think that is what you believe, or you
wouldn't tell it under your oath.
Mr. RUBY. But it is a very serious situation. I guess it is too late to
stop it, isn't it?
All right, I want to ask you this. All you men have been chosen by the
President for this committee, is that correct?
Chief Justice WARREN. Representative Ford and I are the only members of
the Commission that are here.
Mr. Rankin of the Commission is employed as our chief counsel.
Mr. Rankin employed Mr. Specter and Mr. Ball as members of the staff.
You know who the other gentlemen here are.
You know that Mr. Moore is a member of the Secret Service, and he has
been a liaison officer with our staff since the Commission was formed.
Representative FORD. Are there any questions that ought to be asked to
help clarify the situation that you described?
Mr. RUBY. There is only one thing. If you don't take me back to
Washington tonight to give me a chance to prove to the President that I
am not guilty, then you will see the most tragic thing that will ever
happen.
And if you don't have the power to take me back, I won't be around to
be able to prove my innocence or guilt.
Now up to this moment, I have been talking with you for how long?
Chief Justice WARREN. I would say for the better part of 3 hours.
Mr. RUBY. All right, wouldn't it be ridiculous for me to speak sensibly
all this time and give you this climactic talk that I have?
Maybe something can be saved, something can be done.
What have you got to answer to that, Chief Justice Warren?
Chief Justice WARREN. Well, I don't know what can be done. Mr. Ruby,
because I don't know what you anticipate we will encounter.
Representative FORD. Is there anything more you can tell us if you went
back to Washington?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; are you sincere in wanting to take me back?
Representative FORD. We are most interested in all the information you
have.
Mr. RUBY. All I know is maybe something can be saved. Because right
now, I want to tell you this, I am used as a scapegoat, and there is no
greater weapon that you can use to create some falsehood about some of
the Jewish faith, especially at the terrible heinous crime such as the
killing of President Kennedy.
Now maybe something can be saved. It may not be too late, whatever
happens, if our President, Lyndon Johnson, knew the truth from me.
But if I am eliminated, there won't be any way of knowing.
Right now, when I leave your presence now. I am the only one that can
bring out the truth to our President, who believes in righteousness and
justice.
But he has been told, I am certain, that I was part of a plot to
assassinate the President.