I know your hands are tied; you are helpless.

Chief Justice WARREN. Mr. Ruby. I think I can say this to you, that if

he has been told any such thing, there is no indication of any kind

that he believes it.

Mr. RUBY. I am sorry. Chief Justice Warren. I thought I would be very

effective in telling you what I have said here. But in all fairness to

everyone, maybe all I want to do is beg that if they found out I was

telling the truth, maybe they can succeed in what their motives are,

but maybe my people won't be tortured and mutilated.

Chief Justice WARREN. Well, you may be sure that the President and his

whole Commission will do anything that is necessary to see that your

people are not tortured.

Mr. RUBY. No.

Chief Justice WARREN. You may be sure of that.

Mr. RUBY. No; the only way you can do it is if he knows the truth, that

I am telling the truth, and why I was down in that basement Sunday

morning, and maybe some sense of decency will come out and they can

still fulfill their plan, as I stated before, without my people going

through torture and mutilation.

Chief Justice WARREN. The President will know everything that you have

said, everything that you have said.

Mr. RUBY. But I won't be around, Chief Justice. I won't be around to

verify these things you are going to tell the President.

Mr. TONAHILL. Who do you think is going to eliminate you, Jack?

Mr. RUBY. I have been used for a purpose, and there will be a certain

tragic occurrence happening if you don't take my testimony and somehow

vindicate me so my people don't suffer because of what I have done.

Chief Justice WARREN. But we have taken your testimony. We have it

here. It will be in permanent form for the President of the United

States and for the Congress of the United States, and for the courts of

the United States, and for the people of the entire world.

It is there. It will be recorded for all to see. That is the purpose of

our coming here today. We feel that you are entitled to have your story

told.

Mr. RUBY. You have lost me though. You have lost me, Chief Justice

Warren.

Chief Justice WARREN. Lost you in what sense?

Mr. RUBY. I won't be around for you to come and question me again.

Chief Justice WARREN. Well, it is very hard for me to believe that. I

am sure that everybody would want to protect you to the very limit.

Mr. RUBY. All I want is a lie detector test, and you refuse to give it

to me.

Because as it stands now--and the truth serum, and any

other--Pentothal--how do you pronounce it, whatever it is. And they

will not give it to me, because I want to tell the truth.

And then I want to leave this world. But I don't want my people to be

blamed for something that is untrue, that they claim has happened.

Chief Justice WARREN. Mr. Ruby, I promise you that you will be able to

take such a test.

Mr. RUBY. When?

Chief Justice WARREN. You will have to let me see when we can figure

that out. But I assure you, it won't be delayed, because our desire

is to terminate the work of the Commission and make our report to the

public just as soon as possible, so there won't be any misunderstanding

caused by all of these rumors or stories that have been put out that

are not consistent with the evidence in the case.

But it will not be unnecessarily delayed, and we will do it on behalf

of the Commission, I promise you.

Mr. RUBY. All I want, and I beg you--when are you going to see the

President?

Chief Justice WARREN. Well, I have no date with the President. I don't

know just when. But as soon as I do see him, I will be glad to tell him

what you have said.

Mr. RUBY. All I want is to take a polygraph to tell the truth. That is

all I want to do.

Chief Justice WARREN. Yes; that, I promise you you can do.

Mr. RUBY. Because my people are going to suffer about things that will

be said about me.

Chief Justice WARREN. Yes; well, I promise.

Mr. RUBY. Hold on another minute.

Chief Justice WARREN. All right.

Mr. RUBY. How do you know if the facts I stated about everything I

said, statements with reference to, are the truth or not?

Chief Justice WARREN. Well, if you want a test made to test those

principal questions, we will work them out so they can be tested.

As I understand it, you can't use the polygraph to say now this is the

story.

Mr. RUBY. I know that.

Chief Justice WARREN. To say you have the story of Jack Ruby. You can't

do that.

Mr. RUBY. I know that. You can clarify by questioning me when I

conceived the idea and what my answer would naturally be that Sunday

morning.

Chief Justice WARREN. Maybe I can help the situation this way. Suppose

you list for us, if you can, the questions that you would like to have

asked of you on the polygraph to establish the truth of your testimony.

What things do you consider vital in it, and what would you like to

have verified?

Mr. RUBY. Yes; but you are telling me to do these things--these things

are going to be promised, but you see they aren't going to let me do

these things.

Because when you leave here, I am finished. My family is finished.

Representative FORD. Isn't it true, Mr. Chief Justice, that the same

maximum protection and security Mr. Ruby has been given in the past

will be continued?

Mr. RUBY. But now that I have divulged certain information because I

want to be honest, all I want to take is a polygraph test and tell the

truth about things and combat the lies that have been told about me.

Now maybe certain people don't want to know the truth that may come out

of me. Is that plausible?

Representative FORD. In other words, the Chief Justice has agreed, and

I on the Commission wholeheartedly concur, that you will be given a

polygraph test as expeditiously as possible.

And I am sure you can rely on what has been stated here by the Chairman.

Mr. RUBY. How are we going to communicate and so on?

Chief Justice WARREN. We will communicate directly with you.

Mr. RUBY. You have a lost cause, Earl Warren. You don't stand a chance.

They feel about you like they do about me, Chief Justice Warren.

Warren Commission (05 of 26): Hearings Vol. V (of 15) · 第 148 / 470 题