There was no answer to that. If any diplomatist from this country, under

the same circumstances as Russia was placed in, had consented to terms

such as the noble Lord had endeavoured to force upon Russia--I say, that

if he entered the door of this House, he would be met by one universal

shout of execration, and, as a public man, would be ruined for ever.

I wish to ask the House this question--whether it has deliberately made

up its mind that this was a proposition which ought to have been imposed

upon Russia? If they have ascertained which is the best--and I rather

think the general opinion is that the proposition of the Government is

the worst; but, assuming that it is not so, and that there may be some

little difference--I want to know what that difference is, and if there

is any difference which can be measured even by the finest diplomatic

and statesmanlike instrument ever invented, I ask, is that difference

worth to this country the incalculable calamities which a prolonged war

must bring upon us? I am of opinion that, with the territorial guarantee

and the abolition of the Christian protectorate, either the terms

proposed by the noble Lord or by Prince Gortchakoff would have been as

secure for Turkey as it is possible under existing circumstances for

Turkey to be by any treaty between the great Powers of Europe. And,

recollect that we have been thrown a little off the original

proposition, for when that proposition was first agreed to in the

Cabinet of Lord Aberdeen I am satisfied in my own mind that it meant

something very like that which the Russians themselves have proposed.

If we take this first protocol of the conference, and look to the speech

made by Count Buol and to the proposition he made, you will find the

third article runs in this language: 'The treaty of July 13, 1841, shall

be revised with the double object,' and so on. But what is the meaning

of revising the treaty of 1841? The treaty has only one object, which is

to guarantee to the Turk the right he has claimed since his possession

of Constantinople--namely, that the Straits should be closed under the

guarantee of the Powers, except in case of war. Therefore, when the

Aberdeen Government, of which the noble Lords were Members, originally

agreed upon these terms, their object was that the Black Sea should be

thrown open, or, at least, that the closing of the Straits should be

relaxed; and I presume that it was not until after it was known that,

while Russia had no objection to the opening of the Straits, Turkey was

very much opposed to it, that it was found necessary to change the terms

and bring them forward in another form. But, surely, if this be so, the

House and the Government should be chary indeed of carrying on a

prolonged war with Russia, Russia having been willing to accept a

proposition made originally by us, and which I believe to be the best

for Turkey and for the interests of Europe. If, I say, this be so, was

the Government justified in breaking off these negotiations, because

that really is the issue which this House is called upon to try? Can

they obtain better terms? If the terms are sufficient for Turkey they

ought not to ask for better ones. I do not say they may not get better

terms. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for the West Riding (Mr.

Cobden), that England and France, if they choose to sacrifice 500,000

men, and to throw away 200,000,000_l_. or 300,000,000_l_. of

treasure, may dismember the Russian Empire. But I doubt whether this

would give better terms for Turkey--I am sure it would not give better

terms for England and France. Now, what has it cost to obtain all this?

And here I must be permitted to say one word with regard to the course

taken by those right hon. Gentlemen who have recently taken their seats

on this bench, and whose conduct on this question has been the cause of

great debate, and of language which I think the state of the case has

not wholly justified. I presume it will be admitted that these right

hon. Gentlemen at least know the object of the war as well as any other

men in this House. I presume, too, that, entertaining as they do a very

serious idea of the results of a prolonged war, they are at liberty to

come to the conclusion that certain terms, to which they themselves were

parties, are sufficient; and if this be the conviction at which they

have arrived, surely no Member of this House will say that, because they

were Members of a Cabinet some time ago which went into this war,

therefore they should be forbidden to endeavour to avert the

incalculable calamities which threaten their country, but should be

expected to maintain a show of consistency, for which they must

sacrifice everything that an honest man would hold dear. Have these men

gained anything in popularity with the country, or even with the Members

of this House, by the course they have taken?

I am almost ashamed to say anything in the defence of those who are so

capable of explaining and defending their own conduct in this matter;

but I may be pardoned if I rejoice that men ranking high as statesmen,

powerful by their oratory, distinguished by their long services, have

separated themselves from that rash, that inexcusable recklessness

which, I say, marks the present Government, and are anxious to deliver

their country from the dangers which surround it. My hon. Friends below

me--and I am quite sure not one of them will suppose that I speak from

the mere wish to oppose them in any way; they are personal friends of

mine, and it pains me now to differ from them; but hon. Members seem to

think, when they are looking a long way off for the objects to be gained

by war, that a man who looks at home is not a friend to his country. Is

war the only thing a nation enters upon in which the cost is never to be

reckoned? Is it nothing that in twelve months you have sacrificed 20,000

or 30,000 men, who a year ago were your own fellow-citizens, living in

your midst, and interested, as you are, in all the social and political

occurrences of the day? Is it nothing that, in addition to those lives,

a sum of--I am almost afraid to say how much, but 30,000,000_l_. or

40,000,000_l_. will not be beyond the mark--has already been

expended? And let the House bear in mind this solemn fact--that the four

nations engaged in this war have already lost so many men, that if you

were to go from Chelsea to Blackwall, and from Highgate and Hampstead to

Norwood, and take every man of a fighting age and put him to death--if

you did this you would not sacrifice a larger number of lives than have

already been sacrificed in these twelve months of war.

Your own troops, as you know, have suffered, during a Crimean winter,

tortures and horrors which the great Florentine hardly imagined when he

wrote his immortal epic. Hon. Members are ready, I know, to say, 'Whose

fault is that?' But if our loss has been less than that of the French,

less than that of the Turks, and less than that of the Russians, it is

fair to assume that, whatever mistakes may have been committed by the

Government, the loss in the aggregate would, even under other

circumstances, have fallen very little short of that which I have

attempted to describe. Are these things to be accounted nothing? We have

had for twelve years past a gradual reduction of taxation, and there has

been an immense improvement in the physical, intellectual, and moral

condition of the people of this country; while for the last two years we

have commenced a career of reimposing taxes, have had to apply for a

loan, and no doubt, if this war goes on, extensive loans are still in

prospect.

Hon. Members may think this is nothing. They say it is a 'low' view of

the case. But, these things are the foundation of your national

greatness, and of your national duration; and you may be following

visionary phantoms in all parts of the world while your own country is

becoming rotten within, and calamities may be in store for the monarchy

and the nation of which now, it appears, you take no heed. Every man

connected with trade knows how much trade has suffered, how much profits

in every branch of trade--except in contracts arising out of the war--

have diminished, how industry is becoming more precarious and the reward

for industry less, how the price of food is raised, and how much there

is of a growing pressure of all classes, especially upon the poorest of

the people--a pressure which by-and-by--not just now, when the popular

frenzy is lashed into fury morning after morning by the newspapers--

[Murmurs]--but I say by-and-by this discontent will grow rapidly, and

you (pointing to the Ministerial bench) who now fancy you are fulfilling

the behests of the national will, will find yourselves pointed to as the

men who ought to have taught the nation better.

I will not enter into the question of the harvest. That is in the hand

of Providence, and may Providence grant that the harvest may be as

bountiful as it was last year! But the House must recollect that in

1853, only two years ago, there was the worst harvest that had been

known for forty years. Prices were very high in consequence. Last year

the harvest was the greatest ever known, yet prices have been scarcely

lower, and there are not wanting men of great information and of sound

judgment who look with much alarm to what may come--I trust it may not

come--if we should have, in addition to the calamities of war,

calamities arising from a scarcity of food, which may be scarcely less

destructive of the peace and comfort of the population of this country.

I will ask the House in this state of things whether they are disposed

to place implicit confidence in her Majesty's Ministers? On that (the

Opposition) side of the House there is not, I believe, much confidence

in the Government; and on this side I suspect there are many men who are

wishful that at this critical moment the affairs of the country should

be under the guidance of men of greater solidity and of better judgment.

I will now point out one or two causes which I think show that I am

justified in placing no confidence whatever in her Majesty's Government.

Take for example what they have been doing with Austria. The noble Lord

at the head of the Government has stated to us that it was of European

importance that Hungary should be connected with Austria. The noble Lord

the Member for the City of London said the other night it was of

essential importance that Austria should be preserved as she is--a great

conservative Power in the midst of Europe. Well, but at the same time

this Government has been urging Austria, month after month, to enter

into the same ruinous course which they themselves are disposed to

pursue. They know perfectly well that if Austria were to join either

with Russia on the one hand, or with the Western Powers on the other, in

all human probability this great Empire would no longer remain that

'great conservative Power in the midst of Europe,' but would be stripped

on the one side of her Italian provinces, and of Hungary on the other;

or, if not stripped of these two portions of the Empire, would be

plunged into an interminable anarchy which would prove destructive of

her power.

What can be more inconsistent than for Ministers to tell us that they

wish Austria to be preserved, and, at the same time, to urge her upon a

course which they know perfectly well must end in her disruption, and in

the destruction of that which they think essential to the balance of

power in Europe? We are told, with regard to our other alliance, that it

is a very delicate topic. It is a very delicate and a very important

topic; but there is another topic still more delicate and important--

namely, the future of this country with regard to that alliance. I think

we have before now spent 1,000,000,000_l_. sterling, more or less,

for the sake of a French dynasty. At this moment there are French armies

in Rome, in Athens, in Gallipoli, in Constantinople, and in the Crimea,

and the end of all this, I fear, is not yet. It has been repeatedly

stated in this House that the people of France are not themselves

enthusiastic in favour of this war. I would fain hope, whatever else may

happen, that between the people of England and of France an improved and

friendly feeling has grown up. But, as far as the war is concerned, your

alliance depends on one life. The present dynasty may be a permanent,

but it may be an ephemeral one, and I cannot but think that when men are

looking forward to prolonged warfare they should at least take into

consideration the ground on which they are standing.

Lord Clarendon has told us, with regard to Russia, that Europe was

standing on a mine, and did not know it. I do not know that he is much

more acute than other people, but I can fancy that Lord Clarendon, by

the blunders of his negotiations and the alliances he has endeavoured to

form, has placed this country on a mine far more dangerous and

destructive than that upon which he thinks Europe was placed by the

colossal power of Russia. There is another point I have to touch upon.

To me it was really frightful to hear the noble Lord the Member for

London (Lord John Russell) tell the House that we are not lighting for

ourselves, but for Germany. I recollect one passage among many in the

noble Lord's speeches upon this point; and, in looking over what has

been said by Ministers, one really wonders that they should have allowed

anything of the kind to appear in _Hansard_. On the 17th of

February last year the noble Lord said,--

'They (England and France) feel that the cause is one, in the

first place, of the independence of Turkey.... It is to maintain

the independence, not only of Turkey, but of Germany and of all

European nations.'--[3 _Hansard_, cxxx. 906.]

['Hear, hear!'] An hon. Member cheers. What a notion a man must have of

the duties of the 27,000,000 of people living in these islands if he

thinks they ought to come forward as the defenders of the 60,000,000 of

people in Germany, that the blood of England is not the property of the

people of England, and that the sacred treasure of the bravery,

resolution, and unfaltering courage of the people of England is to be

squandered in a contest in which the noble Lord says we have no

interest, for the preservation of the independence of Germany, and of

the integrity, civilization, and something else, of all Europe!

The noble Lord takes a much better view, as I presume many of us do, of

things past than of things present. The noble Lord knows that we once

did go to war for all Europe, but then we went to war with nearly all

Europe, whereas now we are going to war in alliance with France only,

except the little State of Sardinia, which we have cajoled or coerced

into a course which I believe every friend to the freedom of Italy and

to Sardinia will live to regret. All the rest of Europe--Spain,

Portugal, Italy, Austria, Prussia, Switzerland, Holland, Denmark, and

Sweden--take no part in the war, and yet our Ministers have--what I

should call, if I were not in this House, the effrontery and audacity to

get up and tell us that they are fighting the battle of all Europe, and

that all Europe is leagued with us against the colossal power of Russia.

Europe in the last war did, for the most part, unite with us. We went to

Spain because we were called to go by the patriot Spaniards, but I think

the Duke of Wellington has stated, in his despatches, that if he had

known how little assistance would be received from them he would not

have recommended even that expedition.

But now, not only has all Europe not united with you, but other

countries will not even allow their men to fight with you. You pay the

Turks to fight their own battles, you enlist men in Germany to fight the

battles of Germany, and the persons engaged in Switzerland and Hamburg

in enlisting men for you are looked upon with suspicion by the

authorities, and I am not sure that some of them have not even been

taken into custody. Why, then, should you pretend that all Europe is

leagued against Russia, and that you have authority to fight the battles

of all Europe against Russia, when the greater part of Europe is

standing by apathetically wondering at the folly you are committing? I

would appeal to the noble Lord the Member for the Colonies--I beg his

pardon, the Member for London--but he has been in so many different

positions lately that it is extremely difficult to identify him. I would

appeal to the noble Lord, because, however much I differ from him, I

have never yet come to the conclusion that he has not at heart the

interest of his country, that he is not capable of appreciating a fair

argument when it is laid before him, and that he has not some sense of

the responsibility as to the political course he takes, and I would ask

him if there be no other world of kingdoms and of nations but that old

world of Europe with which the noble Lord is so disposed to entangle

this country?

I wish the noble Lord could blot out from his recollection, for a little

time, William III, and all the remembrance of what has been called by

the right hon. Member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli) 'the Dutch

conquest,' which is supposed to have enthroned the Whig aristocracy in

this country. I would ask the noble Lord to do this for to-night--for an

hour--for five minutes. There is a country called the United States of

America. Only on Tuesday night the very remarkable circumstance

occurred--and I think the House will be of opinion that it is one worth

notice--of two of those distinguished men being present and listening to

the debates in this House who have occupied the position of President of

the United States; a position, I venture to say, not lower in honour and

dignity than that of any crowned monarch on the surface of the globe.

The United States is precisely the country which is running with us the

race of power and of greatness. Its population will, I believe, at the

next census exceed the population of the United Kingdom; in its

manufactures and general industry it is by far the most formidable rival

that the great manufacturers of this country now have to contend with;

it has, I suppose, ten steamers for one steamer of this country; its

magnificent steamships have crossed the Atlantic in a shorter time than

the steamships of this country; the finest vessels which are at this

moment performing the voyage between England and the Australian colonies

have been built in the United States; therefore, in shipbuilding

industry the United States not only compete with, but in some respects

even excel, this country. Look at our present position and that of the

United States.

May I entreat the attention of this House, for I am not declaiming, I am

not making a party attack, I am treating of that which, in my mind, is

of vital importance to every family in the kingdom. This year the

Chancellor of the Exchequer told you that he must have a sum of

86,000,000_l_. in order to carry on the various departments of your

Government, and to defray your vast military expenditure. The United

States has at this moment in her Treasury enough, I think, to pay off

all her debt. Deduct the whole amount of the expenses of the Government

of the United States, not only of the general Government, but also of

the thirty independent sovereign States, from the 86,000,000_l_. we

are spending, and you will find that at least 70,000,000_l_. will

be left, which is, therefore, the sum of taxation that we are paying

this year more than the people of the United States.

Some hon. Gentlemen know what it is to run a horse that has been

weighted. I heard, the other day, of a horse that won every race in

which it started, up to a certain period when it was for the first time

weighted. It then lost the race, and it is reported in the annals of the

turf that it never won a race afterwards. If that be the case with

regard to a horse, it is much more true with regard to a nation. When a

nation has gone a step backwards it is difficult to restore it to its

position; if another nation has passed it in the race, it is almost

impossible for it to regain the ground it has lost. I now speak

particularly to hon. Members opposite, for there are, perhaps, more

Gentlemen upon that than upon this side of the House in the happy

position of owners of vast, productive, beautiful, and, I hope,

unencumbered estates in the various parts of the kingdom. We are now

about ten days' voyage from the United States, and within ten years we

shall probably communicate with that country by telegraph as quickly as

we now do with the Crimea. I hope it will be for a much better object.

The people of the United States are our people, and there are few

families in England which have not friends and relatives connected with

or settled in that country. The inducements for men to remain at home

and their attachment to the place of their birth are necessarily to some

extent weakened by the facility with which they can now travel almost

round the world in a few weeks.

Do you believe that when the capital of the greatest banking-house in

Lombard street can be transferred to the United States on a small piece

of paper in one post, that the imposition of 70,000,000_l_. of

taxation over and above the taxation of an equal population in the

United States will not have the effect of transferring capital from this

country to the United States, and, if capital, then trade, population,

and all that forms the bone and sinew of this great Empire? I ask hon.

Members to remember what fell on a previous evening from the right hon.

Gentleman the President of the Board of Works. The right hon. Gentleman

talked of the war lasting, perhaps, six years with our resources

undiminished. Now, nothing is easier than for a Cornish Baronet,

possessing I am afraid to say how many thousands a year, a Member of a

Cabinet, or for all those who are surrounded with every comfort, to look

with the utmost complacency upon the calamities which may befall others

not so fortunately situated as themselves. Six years of this war, and

our resources undiminished! Why, Sir, six years of this war, at an

annual expenditure of 70,000,000_l_., give 420,000,000_l_. to

the side of the United States as against the condition of the people of

this country.

Am I, then, talking of trifles? Am I talking to sane men, that it is

necessary to bring forward facts like these? I am amazed, when the

newspaper press, when public speakers, when Gentlemen on both sides of

this House are so ready to listen and to speak upon questions relating

to Turkey, to Servia, or to Schamyl, that I cannot get the House of

Commons to consider a question so great as the expenditure of

420,000,000_l_., and when we have to consider if we shall trust

that vast issue in the hands of the noble Lords and right hon. Gentlemen

on the Treasury bench.

I have stated that I have no confidence in the Government, and I will

now tell the House another reason for that want of confidence. My hon.

Friend the Member for the West Riding, on a previous occasion, treated

the right hon. President of the Board of Works very summarily; but I

wish to call the attention of the House to what was said by the right

hon. Gentleman in 1850, in the debate which then took place upon the

foreign policy of the noble Lord now his chief. On that occasion the

right hon. Gentleman told the House that the foreign policy of the noble

Lord now at the head of the Government had made us hated by every party

in every nation in Europe; he said that the noble Lord had excited the

disaffected to revolt, and, having brought upon them the vengeance of

the Governments under which they lived, had then betrayed them. I do not

say that this is true, but I state it upon the authority of a Minister

now in the Cabinet of the noble Lord; but, whether true or not, I cannot

have confidence in the right hon. Gentleman when sitting in a Cabinet to

carry out the foreign policy of the noble Lord.

I will take the case of another Minister, and I do not think that when

he speaks he will call my observations undeserved. A most distinguished

Member of the Government--the Chancellor of the Exchequer--has been

twice elected within a very short period, once before and once since his

acceptance of office,--I must say that I do not like to see these

changes, when a man one night sits on one bench and another night on

another,--on the 8th of February, 1855, the right hon. Gentleman,

addressing his constituents at Radnor, said:--

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