point which I suppose has really been the cause of this debate, and that
is the temper of the United States in making certain demands upon our
Government. I asked a question the other night after the noble Lord had
asked a question upon the subject--I asked whether we had not claims
against them. I understand that claims were made upon us by the United
States amounting to 300,000_l_. or 400,000_l_. I am afraid
that we have claims against them, amounting probably to as much as that.
If any man thinks he has a right to go to law with another, and that
other has an answer to his claim, the case must be heard. And so between
two great nations and two free Governments. If one has claims against
the other, and the other has counter claims, clearly nothing can be more
fair than that those claims should be courteously and honestly
considered. It is quite absurd to suppose that the English Government
and the Government at Washington can have a question about half a
million of money which they cannot amicably settle. The noble Lord, I
believe, thinks it is not a question for arbitration, but that it is a
question of principle. Well, all questions of property almost are
questions of law, and you go to a lawyer and settle them if you can. In
this case it would be surely as easy to have the matter settled by some
impartial person as it was to ask the Senate or other authority at
Hamburg to settle a question between this country and the Empire of
Brazil. Our most perfect security is, that as the war in America draws
to a close--if it should happily soon draw to a close--we shall become
more generous to them, and their Government and people will probably
become less irritated towards us. And when the passions have cooled
down, I am quite sure that Mr. Seward on that side and Earl Russell on
this, Mr. Adams here and Sir Frederick Bruce there, will be able,
without much difficulty, to settle this, which is, after all, an
unimportant matter, as a question of accounts between the two nations.
I have only one more observation to make, and it is this--I suspect the
root of all the unfortunate circumstances that have occurred is the
feeling of jealousy which we have cherished with regard to the American
nation. It was very much shown at the beginning of this war, when a
Member whom I will not name, for I am sure his wish is that his name
should not be mentioned in connection with it now, spoke of the bursting
of the bubble republic. I recollect that Lord John Russell, as he then
was speaking from that bench, turned round and rebuked him in language
which was worthy of his name, and character, and position. I beg to tell
that Gentleman, and anybody else who talks about a bubble republic, that
I have a strong suspicion he will see that a great many bubbles will
burst before that. Why should we fear a great nation on the American
continent? Some people fear that, should America become a great nation,
she will be arrogant and aggressive. It does not follow that it should
be so. The character of a nation does not depend altogether upon its
size, but upon the instruction, the civilization, and the morals of its
people. You fancy the supremacy of the sea will pass away from you; and
the noble Lord, who has had much experience, and is supposed to be wiser
on the subject than any other man in the House, will say that 'Rule
Britannia' may become obsolete. Well, inasmuch as the supremacy of the
seas means arrogance and the assumption of a dictatorial power on the
part of this country, the sooner that becomes obsolete the better. I do
not believe that it is for the advantage of this country, or of any
country in the world, that any one nation should pride itself upon what
is termed the supremacy of the sea; and I hope the time is coming--I
believe the hour is hastening--when we shall find that law and justice
will guide the councils and will direct the policy of the Christian
nations of the world. Nature will not be baffled because we are jealous
of the United States--the decrees of Providence will not be overthrown
by aught we can do.
The population of the United States is now not less than 35,000,000.
When the next Parliament of England has lived to the age which this has
lived to, that population will be 40,000,000, and you may calculate the
increase at the rate of rather more than 1,000,000 of persons per year.
Who is to gainsay it? Will constant snarling at a great republic alter
this state of things, or swell us up in these islands to 40,000,000 or
50,000,000, or bring them down to our 30,000,000? Hon. Members and the
country at large should consider these facts, and learn from them that
it is the interest of the nations to be at one--and for us to be in
perfect courtesy and amity with the great English nation on the other
side of the Atlantic. I am sure that the longer that nation exists the
less will our people be disposed to sustain you in any needless
hostility against them or jealousy of them. And I am the more convinced
of this from what I have seen of the conduct of the people in the north
of England during the last four years. I believe, on the other hand,
that the American people, when this excitement is over, will be willing,
so far as aggressive acts against us are concerned, to bury in oblivion
transactions which have given them much pain, and that they will make
the allowance which they may fairly make, that the people of this
country--even those high in rank and distinguished in culture--have had
a very inadequate knowledge of the real state of the events which have
taken place in that country since the beginning of the war.
It is on record that when the author of _The Decline and Fall of the
Roman Empire_ was about to begin his great work, David Hurne wrote a
letter to him urging him not to employ the French but the English
tongue, 'because' he said, 'our establishments in America promise
superior stability and duration to the English language.' How far that
promise has been in part fulfilled we who are living now can see; but
how far it will be more largely and more completely fulfilled in after
times we must leave after times to tell. I believe that in the centuries
which are to come it will be the greatest pride and the highest renown
of England that from her loins have sprung a hundred millions--it may be
two hundred millions--of men who dwell and prosper on that continent
which the grand old Genoese gave to Europe. Sir, if the sentiments which
I have uttered shall become the sentiments of the Parliament and people
of the United Kingdom--if the moderation which I have described shall
mark the course of the Government and of the people of the United
States--then, notwithstanding some present irritation and some present
distrust--and I have faith both in us and in them--I believe that these
two great commonwealths will march abreast, the parents and the
guardians of freedom and justice, wheresoever their language shall be
spoken and their power shall extend.
* * * * *
CANADA.
II.
THE CANADIAN FORTIFICATIONS.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 23, 1865.
I shall ask the attention of the House for only a few moments. If the
hon. Member (Mr. Bentinck) divides, I shall go into the same lobby with
him. I am afraid that, in making that announcement, I shall excite some
little alarm in the mind of the hon. Gentleman. I wish therefore to say,
that I shall not in going into the lobby agree with him in many of the
statements he has made. The right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) said,
that he approached the military question with great diffidence, and I
was very glad to see any signs of diffidence in that quarter. After that
explanation, he asked the House with a triumphant air whether there is
any difficulty in defending a frontier of one thousand or fifteen
hundred miles, and whether the practicability of doing so is a new
doctrine in warfare. But one thousand or fifteen hundred miles of
frontier to defend at the centre of your power, is one thing; but at
three thousand or four thousand miles from the centre, it is an entirely
different thing. I venture to say, that there is not a man in this
House, or a sensible man out of it, who, apart from the consideration of
this vote, or some special circumstances attending it, believes that the
people of this country could attempt a successful defence of the
frontier of Canada against the whole power of the United States. I said
the other night, that I hoped we should not now talk folly, and
hereafter, in the endeavour to be consistent, act folly. We all know
perfectly well that we are talking folly when we say that the Government
of this country would send either ships or men to make an effectual
defence of Canada against the power of the United States, supposing war
to break out. Understand, I am not in the least a believer in the
probability of war, but I will discuss the question for one moment as if
war were possible. I suppose some men in this House think it probable.
But if it be possible or probable, and if you have to look this
difficulty in the face, there is no extrication from it but in the
neutrality or independence of Canada.
I agree with those Members who say that it is the duty of a great empire
to defend every portion of it. I admit that as a general proposition,
though hon. Gentlemen opposite, and some on this side, do not apply that
rule to the United States. But, admitting that rule, and supposing that
we are at all points unprepared for such a catastrophe, may we not, as
reasonable men, look ahead, and try if it be not possible to escape from
it? [An hon. Member: 'Run away?'] No, not by running away, though there
are many circumstances in which brave men run away; and you may get into
difficulty on this Canadian question, which may make you look back and
wish that you had run away a good time ago. I object to this vote on a
ground which, I believe, has not been raised by any Member in the
present discussion. I am not going to say that the expenditure of fifty
thousand pounds is a matter of great consequence to this country, that
the expenditure of this money in the proposed way will be taken as a
menace by the United States. I do not think that this can be fairly
said; for whether building fortifications at Quebec be useless or not,
such a proceeding is not likely to enable the Canadians to overrun the
State of New York. The United States, I think, will have no right to
complain of this expenditure. The utmost it can do will be to show them
that some persons, and perhaps the Government of this country, have some
little distrust of them, and so far it may do injury. I complain of the
expenditure and the policy announced by the Colonial Secretary, on a
ground which I thought ought to have been urged by the noble Lord the
Member for Wick, who is a sort of half-Canadian. He made a speech which
I listened to with great pleasure, and told the House what some of us,
perhaps, did not know before; but if I had been connected, as he is,
with Canada, I would have addressed the House from a Canadian point of
view.
What is it that the Member for Oxford says? He states, in reference to
the expenditure for the proposed fortifications, that, though a portion
of the expenditure is to be borne by us, the main portion is to be borne
by Canada; but I venture to tell him, that, if there shall be any
occasion to defend Canada at all, it will not arise from anything Canada
does, but from what England does; and therefore I protest against the
doctrine that the Cabinet in London may get into difficulties, and
ultimately into war, with the Cabinet at Washington; that because Canada
lies adjacent to the United States, and may consequently become a great
battle-field, this United Kingdom has a right to call on Canada for the
main portion of that expenditure. Who has asked you to spend fifty
thousand pounds, and the hundreds of thousands which may be supposed to
follow, but which perhaps Parliament may be indisposed hereafter to
grant? What is the proportion which Canada is to bear? If we are to
spend two hundred thousand pounds at Quebec, is Canada to spend four
hundred thousand pounds at Montreal? If Canada is to spend double
whatever we may spend, is it not obvious that every Canadian will ask
himself--what is the advantage of the connection between Canada and
England?
Every Canadian knows perfectly well, and nobody better than the noble
Lord the Member for Wick, that there is no more prospect of a war
between Canada and the United States alone, than between the Empire of
France and the Isle of Man. If that is so, why should the Canadians be
taxed beyond all reason, as the Colonial Secretary proposes to tax them,
for a policy not Canadian, and for a calamity which, if ever it occurs,
must occur from some transactions between England and the United States?
There are Gentlemen here who know a good deal of Canada, and I see
behind me one who knows perfectly well what is the condition of the
Canadian finances. We complain that Canada levies higher duties on
British manufactures than the United States did before the present war,
and much higher than France does. But when we complain to Canada of
this, and say it is very unpleasant usage from a part of our empire, the
Canadians reply that their expenditure is so much, and their debt, with
the interest on it, so much, that they are obliged to levy these heavy
duties. If the Canadian finances are in the unfortunate position
described; if the credit of Canada is not very good in the market of
this country; if you see what are the difficulties of the Canadians
during a period of peace; consider what will be their difficulties if
the doctrine of the Colonial Secretary be carried out, which is that
whatever expenditure is necessary for the defence of Canada, though we
bear a portion, the main part must be borne by Canada.
We must then come to this inevitable conclusion. Every Canadian will
say, 'We are close alongside of a great nation; our parent state is
three thousand miles away; there are litigious, and there may be even
warlike, people in both nations, and they may occasion the calamity of a
great war; we are peaceable people, having no foreign politics, happily;
we may be involved in war, and while the cities of Great Britain are not
touched by a single shell, nor one of its fields ravaged, there is not a
city or a village in this Canada in which we live which will not be
liable to the ravages of war on the part of our powerful neighbour.'
Therefore the Canadians will say, unless they are unlike all other
Englishmen (who appear to have more sense the farther they go from their
own country), that it would be better for Canada to be disentangled from
the politics of England, and to assume the position of an independent
state.
I suspect from what has been stated by official Gentlemen in the present
Government and in previous Governments, that there is no objection to
the independence of Canada whenever Canada may wish it. I have been glad
to hear those statements, because I think they mark an extraordinary
progress in sound opinions in this country. I recollect the noble Lord
at the head of the Foreign Office on one occasion being very angry with
me, he said I wished to make a great empire less; but a great empire,
territorially, may be lessened without its power and authority in the
world being diminished. I believe if Canada now, by a friendly
separation from this country, became an independent state, choosing its
own form of government--monarchical, if it liked a monarchy, or
republican, if it preferred a republic--it would not be less friendly to
England, and its tariff would not be more adverse to our manufactures
than it is now. In the case of a war with America, Canada would then be
a neutral country; and the population would be in a state of greater
security. Not that I think there is any fear of war, but the Government
admit that it may occur by their attempt to obtain money for these
fortifications. I object, therefore, to this vote, not on that account,
nor even because it causes some distrust, or may cause it, in the United
States; but I object to it mainly because I think we are commencing a
policy which we shall either have to abandon, because Canada will not
submit to it, or else which will bring upon Canada a burden in the shape
of fortification expenditure that will make her more and more
dissatisfied with this country, and that will lead rapidly to her
separation from us. I do not object to that separation in the least; I
believe it would be better for us and better for her. But I think that,
of all the misfortunes which could happen between us and Canada, this
would be the greatest, that her separation should take place after a
period of irritation and estrangement, and that we should have on that
continent to meet another element in some degree hostile to this
country.
I am sorry, Sir, that the noble Lord at the head of the Government, and
his colleagues, have taken this course; but it appears to me to be
wonderfully like almost everything which the Government does. It is a
Government apparently of two parts, the one part pulling one way and the
other part pulling another, and the result generally is something which
does not please anybody, or produce any good effect in any direction.
They now propose a scheme which has just enough in it to create distrust
and irritation, enough to make it in some degree injurious, and they do
not do enough to accomplish any of the objects for which, according to
their statements, the proposition is made. Somebody asked the other
night whether the Administration was to rule, or the House of Commons.
Well, I suspect from the course of the debates, that on this occasion
the Administration will be allowed to rule. We are accustomed to say
that the Government suggests a thing on its own responsibility, and
therefore we will allow them to do it. But the fact is, that the
Government knows no more of this matter than any other dozen gentlemen
in this House. They are not a bit more competent to form an opinion upon
it. They throw it down on the table, and ask us to discuss and vote it.
I should be happy to find the House, disregarding all the intimations
that war is likely, anxious not to urge Canada into incurring an
expenditure which she will not bear, and which, if she will not bear,
must end in one of two things--either in throwing the whole burden upon
us, or in breaking up, perhaps suddenly and in anger, the connection
between us and that colony, and in making our future relations with her
most unsatisfactory. I do not place much reliance on the speech of the
right honourable Member for Buckinghamshire, not because he cannot judge
of the question just as well as I or any one of us can do, but because I
notice that in matters of this kind Gentlemen on that (the Opposition)
bench, whatever may have been their animosities towards the Gentlemen on
this (the Treasury) bench on other questions, shake hands. They may tell
you that they have no connection with the House over the way, but the
fact is, their connection is most intimate. And if the right honourable
Member for Buckinghamshire were now sitting on the Treasury bench, and
the noble Viscount were sitting opposite to him, the noble Viscount, I
have no doubt, would give him the very same support that he now receives
from the right hon. Gentleman.
This seems to me a question so plain, so much on the surface, appealing
so much to our common sense, having in it such great issues for the
future, that I am persuaded it is the duty of the House of Commons on
this occasion to take the matter out of the hands of the executive
Government, and to determine that, with regard to the future policy of
Canada, we will not ourselves expend the money of the English tax-
payers, and not force upon the tax-payers of Canada a burden which, I am
satisfied, they will not long continue to bear.
* * * * *
CANADA.
III.
THE CANADIAN CONFEDERATION SCHEME.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEBRUARY 28, 1867.
Although this measure has not excited much interest in the House or in
the country, yet it appears to me to be of such very great importance
that it should be treated rather differently, or that the House should
be treated rather differently in respect to it. I have never before
known of any great measure affecting any large portion of the empire or
its population which has been brought in and attempted to be hurried
through Parliament in the manner in which this bill is being dealt with.
Eat the importance of it is much greater to the inhabitants of those
provinces than it is to us. It is on that account alone that it might be
expected we should examine it closely, and see that we commit no error
in passing it.
The right hon. Gentleman has not offered us, on one point, an
explanation which I think he will be bound to make. This bill does not
include the whole of the British North American Provinces. I presume the
two left out have been left out because it is quite clear they did not
wish to come in. [Mr. Adderley: 'I am glad I can inform the hon.
Gentleman that they are, one of them at least, on the point of coming
in.'] Yes; the reason of their being left out is because they were not
willing to come in. They may hereafter become willing, and if so the
bill will admit them by a provision which appears reasonable. But the
province of Nova Scotia is also unwilling to come in, and it is assumed
that because some time ago the Legislature of that province voted a
resolution partly in favour of some such course, therefore the
population is in favour of it.
For my part, I do not believe in the propriety or wisdom of the
Legislature voting on a great question of this nature with reference to
the Legislature of Nova Scotia, if the people of Nova Scotia have never
had the question directly put to them. I have heard there is at present
in London a petition complaining of the hasty proceeding of Parliament,
and asking for delay, signed by 31,000 adult males of the province of
Nova Scotia, and that that petition is in reality signed by at least
half of all the male inhabitants of that province. So far as I know, the
petition does not protest absolutely against union, but against the
manner in which it is being carried out by this scheme and bill, and the
hasty measures of the Colonial Office. Now, whether the scheme be a good
or bad one, scarcely anything can be more foolish, looking to the
future, than that any of the provinces should be dragged into it, either
perforce, by the pressure of the Colonial Office, or by any hasty action
on the part of Parliament, in the hope of producing a result which
probably the populations of those provinces may not wish to see brought
about.
I understand that the general election for the Legislature of Nova
Scotia, according to the constitution of that colony, will take place in
the month of May or June next; that this question has never been fairly
placed before the people of that province at an election, and that it
has never been discussed and decided by the people; and seeing that only
three months or not so much will elapse before there will be an
opportunity of ascertaining the opinions of the population of Nova
Scotia, I think it is at least a hazardous proceeding to pass this bill
through Parliament, binding Nova Scotia, until the clear opinion of that
province has been ascertained. If, at a time like this, when you are
proposing a union which we all hope is to last for ever, you create a
little sore, it will in all probability become a great sore in a short
time, and it may be that the intentions of Parliament will be almost
entirely frustrated by the haste with which this measure is being pushed
forward.
The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, I think, in
the early part of the evening, in answer to a question from this side,
spoke of this matter as one of extreme urgency. Well, I cannot discover
any urgency in the matter at all. What is urgent is this, that when done
it ought to be done wisely, and with the full and free consent of all
those populations who are to be bound by this Act and interested in its
results. Unless the good-will of those populations is secured, in all
probability the Act itself will be a misfortune rather than a blessing
to the provinces to which it refers.