Mr. OSWALD. Under my advice to Marina Oswald I requested that she sever
all connections with Mr. and Mrs. Paine.
Mr. JENNER. When did you give that advice and make that request?
Mr. OSWALD. At the Inn of the Six Flags.
Mr. JENNER. Was this the same occasion about which you have already
testified, and which consideration was being given, to whether your
sister-in-law Marina would reside with the Martins rather than with the
Paines?
Mr. OSWALD. This was the first occasion, sir.
Mr. JENNER. I take it then from your present testimony, just answering
my present questions, that the discussion went beyond the question
whether Marina would reside with the Paines as distinguished from the
Martins, and when I say beyond, it went to the question of whether
Marina would have anything to do with the Paines thereafter.
Am I correct?
Mr. OSWALD. Not fully, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Will you please explain?
Mr. OSWALD. To the extent that the question arose whether or not after
our first agreement that she would not live with the Paines, that
question never has been brought up again. The question has come up from
Mrs. Marina Oswald. The time I fix this second query or inquiry from
her was approximately December 20 or 21, 1963, at which time we were
advised that Mrs. Paine had written her a letter or letters requesting
that she contact Mrs. Paine.
Mr. JENNER. What was the date?
Mr. OSWALD. Approximately December 20 or December 21.
Mr. JENNER. Marina advised you that Mrs. Ruth Paine had written her.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Had written her, Marina?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Asking Marina to do what?
Mr. OSWALD. To contact Mrs. Paine; that Mrs. Paine wanted to speak
with her. I do not recall any specific reference as to what she had to
speak to her about. She just wanted to speak to Marina Oswald. She did
not reply to these letters. She asked me would it be all right in my
opinion for her to call her on the phone.
I recommended that she did not talk to Mrs. Paine at all nor answer her
letters and to my knowledge this request has been done.
Mr. McKENZIE. To the best of your knowledge, is that right?
Mr. OSWALD. To the best of my knowledge she has not contacted Mr. or
Mrs. Paine.
Mr. JENNER. She has followed your admonition or advice to have no
contact whatever with Mrs. Paine?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Or to permit Mrs. Paine to have any contact with her,
Marina?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. McKENZIE. May I ask a question right there, please?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. McKENZIE. Mr. Oswald, your testimony is from the best of your
knowledge, is that correct, insofar as any contact with the Paines or
Mrs. Paine is concerned?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. McKENZIE. And if the Paines have contacted Marina Oswald or if
Marina Oswald has contacted the Paines, do you or do you not know of
any such contact?
Mr. OSWALD. I am not aware of any such contact.
Mr. McKENZIE. All right, sir. Proceed.
Mr. JENNER. I direct your attention to the month of October, 1962 for a
moment. Were you aware that your sister-in-law Marina was living with
Elena Hall at that time?
Mr. OSWALD. October, 1962, sir?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. OSWALD. One moment, please.
No, sir. I was not aware of that.
Mr. JENNER. Were you aware of where your brother Lee was living in the
month of October, 1962?
Mr. OSWALD. Only to the city in which he was living.
Mr. JENNER. And what city was that?
Mr. OSWALD. Dallas, Tex., sir. If I might ask, sir, can you fix the
date in October, 1962 when Marina Oswald was reported living with Mrs.
Hall?
Mr. JENNER. No, I can't at the moment. But neither Marina nor your
brother was residing in Fort Worth at that time?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, they were not.
Mr. JENNER. From your previous testimony I gather that you did not
know the whereabouts of your brother Lee other than that it was, you
supposed, somewhere in Dallas?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
If I might make one correction, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. OSWALD. Referring to the postcard received from Lee Oswald post
dated October 10, 1962 in Dallas, Tex., I recall receiving this two
days after he had moved from Fort Worth, Tex., so it would be the first
part of October of 1962 they were residing in Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr. JENNER, All right, with the exception of that.
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. I take it you are not in the habit of retaining personal
correspondence you receive from others?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I am not.
Mr. JENNER. I think you have explained why you retained the particular
correspondence that you produced for us, that it was from your brother
while he was in Russia.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And after he returned you received some correspondence and
you retained that as well.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did the somewhat abrupt change in the attitude of your
brother Lee toward the United States come as a surprise to you?
Mr. OSWALD. You are referring to the period in 1959?
Mr. JENNER. I am.
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; it did.
Mr. JENNER. That is the letters of May 5 and May 31 and those that
followed. But that change, and his desire to return to the United
States, did come as a surprise to you, is that correct, sir?
Mr. McKENZIE. Are you asking about his return to the United States or
his going to Russia?
Mr. JENNER. No, sir, his return to the United States, his change of
attitude.
Mr. OSWALD. It was quite a surprise to me that he wished to return to
the United States from Russia.
Mr. JENNER. Was the change in attitude toward the United States as
expressed first in the letters of November 8 and November 26, 1959,
and then the series of letters that commenced in the spring of 1961 a
surprise to you?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not a surprise to me.
Mr. JENNER. Would you explain both of your answers.
Mr. OSWALD. There, sir, I felt like in the due course he would
certainly change his mind and opinion of the U.S.S.R., and I felt very
strongly that after a period of so many months or a year or two that he
would change his mind and return to the United States.
Mr. JENNER. Now, prior to your brother's leaving Russia to return to
the United States, that is actually a day or two before, if not the day
before they left Minsk for Moscow, in May of 1962, your brother Lee
outlined his projected route by return to the United States. He spoke
in that letter of leaving from England and arriving in New Orleans.
Mr. OSWALD. I beg your pardon, sir?
Mr. JENNER. There is a difference in the route actually taken. Did
you ever discuss with Lee why that change in route occurred? Are you
seeking that May letter?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I am.
Mr. JENNER. It is probably the 22d of May and that is Exhibit 318.
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I have the letter before me. You are referring to
the letter of May 22, 1962?
Mr. JENNER. Well, it would appear from the notation handed to me. Is
there any discussion in that letter about the route of his return,
projected return, to the United States?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; there is.
Mr. JENNER. What does it say, please?
Mr. OSWALD. "Well, we have finally gotten the word from the U.S.
Embassy and shall leave for Moscow tomorrow. We will be 10 to 14 days
in Moscow and then leave for England where we shall board a ship for
America. The transatlantic trip will take another two weeks or so."
Mr. JENNER. Now, the fact is that they did go to Moscow and then to
Holland, and boarded a ship at Holland, and as you say touched England
and then went directly to the United States.
Did you ever discuss with your brother that change in route?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not. And I did fail to read further on down
where it does refer to, as he put it, "will actually arrive in America
probably in New Orleans."
Mr. JENNER. He actually arrived in New York City.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That subject matter was never discussed by you with him?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not.
Mr. JENNER. Or by him in your presence?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not.
Mr. JENNER. Or by Marina?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. With you or in your presence?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not.
Mr. JENNER. Have you related, during the course of the day and
yesterday, called our attention to all of the correspondence between
yourself and your brother from the time of his return to the United
States in June of 1962 to and through November 22, 1963?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. JENNER. According to our records you and your wife, Vada, or either
or both of you, had the following contacts with the FBI during the
lifetime of your brother Lee. I direct your attention first, to the
possibility of refreshing your recollection, to the date of April 27,
1960.
Were you interviewed by an FBI agent on that day, and would the name
Fain serve to refresh your recollection on that score?
Mr. OSWALD. It certainly does, sir. I cannot recall the date of our
interview or our conversation.
Mr. JENNER. This would be in the spring, let us say, of 1960. I have
given you the date. Does that sound right to you, April 27, 1960.
Mr. OSWALD. It sounds approximately right, sir, because I do recall I
just started my employment with the Acme Brick Company in Fort Worth on
the 18th of April, 1960.
I do not believe that it was that close to my date of employment with
the Acme Brick Company. I feel like it would have been perhaps 20 or 30
days later.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Subject to that, do you recall the interview, is the name familiar to
you as being the gentleman who interviewed you?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. JENNER. And what inquiries did Mr. Fain make of you? What subject
matter, first.
Mr. OSWALD. He was inquiring as to whether or not I had heard from my
brother Lee Harvey Oswald recently, I believe that is the way it was
put.
Mr. JENNER. Did he at that time inquire of you on the subject matter of
your brother's defection?
Mr. OSWALD. Not to my remembrance, sir.
Mr. DULLES. By subject matter, do you mean reason?
Mr. JENNER. Reason or the fact that he had defected or what he might
have known about his defection.
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I do not believe he did.
Mr. JENNER. He didn't discuss that. According to your recollection,
there was no discussion of that subject?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was the subject of the possibility of your being contacted
by any Soviet officials discussed?
Mr. OSWALD. It was discussed not in the term of Soviet officials. In
case any----
Mr. JENNER. Any representative.
Mr. OSWALD. Any Communist Party member or so forth along that line
contacted me, I assured him I would certainly, if necessary, take care
of myself or if I had time report it to his attention.
Mr. JENNER. You would report all contacts to the FBI either directly to
Mr. Fain or some other FBI agent or office?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you agreed to do that?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I most certainly did.
Mr. DULLES. Have you had any other calls from the FBI officers since
that date?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. JENNER. I think we will get to that.
Mr. DULLES. Are they pertinent?
Mr. JENNER. Yes, they are and I think I have them listed.
Was the subject of the possibility of your receiving any request by any
such people for any item of personal identification of your brother
discussed with Mr. Fain.
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I do not recall that it was.
Mr. JENNER. You have no present recollection of that?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I do not.
Mr. JENNER. This is not--trying not to be repetitious but the author of
this memorandum is highly desirous of inquiring of you as to whether
the subject of personal identification of your brother was raised by
Mr. Fain in any connection or in any aspect.
Mr. DULLES. I don't understand that question, what do you mean by
personal identification?
Mr. JENNER. Some item of personal identification.
Mr. McKENZIE. Marks identifying.
Mr. DULLES. Wound or anything of that sort?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. Physical marks really.
Mr. JENNER. Two classifications, physical marks how he could be
identified; secondly any items of identification, such as registration
cards, things of that nature. But first personal identification in the
sense of physical properties. The person of your brother Lee.
Mr. OSWALD. I believe Mr. Fain did at that time inquire as to any scars
that might appear, that I was aware of on Lee's body. The only scar
that I was familiar with was the one over one ear, I do not recall
which ear it was, where he had a mastoid operation performed at an
earlier date.
Mr. JENNER. That is his right ear, was it not?
Mr. OSWALD. I still don't know, sir. I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
In that connection, however, did Mr. Fain raise with you the subject
that if anyone inquired of you as to any items of scars or other
possible identification that you would in turn advise the FBI that such
an inquiry had been made of you?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir, and I might say it was my further
understanding that I did agree if anybody inquired about Lee in such a
nature that other than perhaps newspaper reporters, who were properly
identified to me and I did know, I would inform him or his office of
this inquiry.
Mr. JENNER. Your present recollection as to aspects of identification
was limited, that is the only one you discussed with Mr. Fain was the
fact that your brother had a mastoid operation on one of his ears.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you knew of no other scar or similar identification on
his body?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, do you recall being again interviewed by Mr. Fain on
September 18, 1961? This would be a couple of months, two or three
months after your brother returned--no, he is still in Russia.
Mr. DULLES. He is still in Russia.
Mr. JENNER. Perhaps I may refresh your recollection an interview by Mr.
Fain with you respecting your then current knowledge of your brother
Lee's activities in Russia.
Mr. OSWALD. May I inquire, sir, was this a telephone conversation?
Mr. JENNER. All that is reported to me in this memorandum is that Mr.
Fain again interviewed you on September 18, 1961 with respect to your
knowledge of your brother Lee's activities in Russia.
Mr. OSWALD. I do believe that he did, sir, and I believe this was over
the telephone.
Mr. JENNER. By way of a telephone call?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You do not recall as of this time or approximately this
time any personal interview that is as distinct from interview by
telephone?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall that during the course of that conversation
you advised FBI agent Fain that your brother had been critical of the
Russians.
Mr. OSWALD. This was in September 1961, sir?
Mr. JENNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, I did, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And that you were surprised that the Russians would permit
such criticism to be conveyed to you by letter?
Mr. OSWALD. I do not recall that specific statement but I do not deny
it.
Mr. JENNER. It is possible that you made that statement?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, the next date is May 18, 1962. Was to your knowledge
or by report from your wife, was your wife interviewed by the FBI on
that date or approximately that date?
Mr. OSWALD. My remembrance on that, sir, is that she was on or around
that date, and also by telephone.
Mr. JENNER. Did she report both occasions to you?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, she did.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Would you please recite those, taking them in the order, what she said
to you and where and what the circumstances were?
Mr. OSWALD. She was at our residence in Fort Worth, Tex., and she
acknowledged that Mr. Fain----
Mr. JENNER. Did she tell you that, sir?