Mr. JENNER. Transpired where, prior to their arrival?
Mr. OSWALD. Out at the Inn of the Six Flags, prior to the arrival of
the FBI agents.
And as the other FBI agent arose rather disgustedly to end the
attempted interview, he walked to the door, opened the door, and spoke
very harshly to Mr. Brown, who was just kneeling down in front of
me--he said, "Just cut it off right there, Mr. Brown."
Mr. Brown indicated he wanted to talk to me some more. He just motioned
to him to cut it off right here.
Mr. Brown left and went outside with him.
About 2 minutes later Mr. Brown appeared again, and asked me to come
outside, which I did. And then the agent apologized to me. He said
he thought I was one of the police officers out there and not Robert
Oswald--he was not aware of who I was. At which time we went into the
adjoining set of rooms, in the presence of both agents, and Mr. Brown
asked me if--it was his understanding that Marina had been interviewed
and had been cooperative prior to their arrival out there, and I said
this was so.
Mr. JENNER. Was the Secret Service mentioned as having interviewed her?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not.
Mr. JENNER. The only expression was that, had she been interviewed.
Mr. OSWALD. I believe, sir, that is correct.
Mr. Brown did use the term had she been interviewed. And my reply, I
believe, verbatim would be--my answer to that question, sir, is yes.
Mr. JENNER. And the Secret Service, as the interviewers, had been
mentioned?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. By you?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. By Mr. Brown?
Mr. OSWALD. Implied, sir, by Mr. Brown.
Mr. JENNER. Is that the end of that incident?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Representative Ford has a notation here to obtain from you
all the details on when you knew that your brother Lee wished to return
from Russia, and you have given us those details, have you not? The
information and knowledge came to you through the correspondence which
now has been identified and admitted in the record?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. And you had no other source?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have any discussion with your mother with respect
to supplying funds--either her doing so or your doing so--to your
brother Lee when he was in Russia?
Mr. OSWALD. My mother did write me on one occasion, sir, requesting
that----
Mr. JENNER. This is while he was in Russia?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct. I believe at this time she was residing in
Crowell, Texas.
Mr. JENNER. She wrote you a note?
Mr. OSWALD. Stating that if I wanted to help Lee in any way, that I had
to go through her to do it to the extent that she was going to handle
everything, and that she was demanding--and that was the word she used
in the letter--that I do so.
Mr. JENNER. That you do what?
Mr. OSWALD. Send any funds that I might want to send to Lee to her, to
forward to Lee.
This I did not do, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you respond to that letter?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Can you fix, approximately, when you received that letter?
Mr. OSWALD. Approximately July or August of 1961, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Other than that letter, did you have any--well, in addition
to the letter, did you ever have a discussion with your mother on the
subject matter of supplying funds for your brother while he was in
Russia?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. JENNER. And she had none with you, and none occurred in your
presence?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, she did not.
Mr. JENNER. What part, if any, did you play in assisting, if you did
assist, your brother Lee in his making of repayments of the funds he
had borrowed from the State Department?
Mr. OSWALD. I did not assist him in any way, sir.
Mr. DULLES. He did not request it?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; he did not. He wanted to do this on his own.
Mr. JENNER. Did you discuss that subject with him?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. JENNER. And did he so express himself?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you offer to help him?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. JENNER. And he refused?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. At any time--let us confine it first to the period that
your brother resided with you in your home, upon his return from
Russia--did he express to you any opinion or make any comment on his
regard for, or affection for, or lack of affection for, or regard for
Marina?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; he did not.
Mr. JENNER. Was the subject ever discussed between you during that
month that he was at your home?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not.
Mr. JENNER. Was the subject ever discussed at any time thereafter?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have occasion--obviously, you did--to observe the
relationship between your brother Lee and your sister-in-law Marina, in
their--as husband and wife?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I did observe that.
Mr. JENNER. And would you please state what you observed in that
respect?
Mr. OSWALD. I felt on two or three occasions that Lee's tone of voice
to Marina--not understanding what was being said--but by the general
tone of voice, that he was being overbearing or forceful.
Mr. JENNER. Inconsiderate?
Mr. OSWALD. Sir?
Mr. JENNER. Inconsiderate?
Mr. OSWALD. Inconsiderate.
Mr. JENNER. Of her?
Mr. OSWALD. Of her--some little thing she might want to do. I say some
little thing--something that she was going to do there at the house or
something, or was doing--I don't recall any specific incident.
Mr. DULLES. Do you recall her reaction?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. DULLES. What was it?
Mr. OSWALD. It was usually silence.
Mr. JENNER. Usually what, sir?
Mr. OSWALD. Silence.
Mr. JENNER. A silence that indicated resentment on her part, or
rejection on her part, of comments your brother was making to her?
Mr. OSWALD. Generally, sir, I formed my opinion by the expression on
her face, and her reaction as indicated, that it was not very pleasing
to her to be perhaps reprimanded.
Mr. JENNER. In the presence of somebody else?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us, if you will, please, from your observation of your
brother and Marina, during all of the period of time up to and through
Thanksgiving of 1962, her attitude towards your brother in the normal
course.
Mr. OSWALD. I believe, sir, it would be described as just a normal
attitude of a wife to a husband. They seemed affectionate--both of them
appeared to be--and I believe this still to be so--very affectionate to
the baby June Lee Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. And it is your opinion, based on your observation during
this period of time, up to and including August of 19--Thanksgiving
Day 1962--it is your opinion that they led a reasonably normal married
life, having in mind all the problems that were facing them?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Did your brother ever discuss with you any incident in
which he thought that Marina had been guilty of some misconduct--I
don't mean sexual misconduct, but did he complain about her conduct?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; he did not.
Mr. JENNER. Any kind or character, at any time?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; he did not.
Mr. JENNER. Was there ever a discussion in your presence by anyone,
including your brother and/or your sister-in-law, on the subject of his
having physically harmed her?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; there was not.
Mr. JENNER. The subject was never discussed in your presence?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it was not.
Mr. JENNER. By anyone?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did it come to your attention at any time prior to November
23, 1962, or November 22, 1963, that your brother had inflicted some
physical harm on your sister-in-law?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it did not.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever see her when she had darkened eyes, as though
a black eye had been inflicted upon her?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Or any other physical injury?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Your mother, in her appearance before the Commission, has
stated, and implied, at least, that your sister-in-law Marina could
understand English and could read English--let's confine it to the
period up to and including November 22, 1963.
What is your opinion on that subject?
Mr. OSWALD. It is my opinion even now, sir, if I may go a little bit
further, that her understanding of the English language is less than
what it appears to be. She does not understand a considerable amount
that she, by her actions, appears to understand. This has come to my
attention since her visit to Washington.
Mr. JENNER. You mean since she appeared before the Commission?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
She does not grasp enough, and by this I mean, sir, to any
extent--perhaps it might be best if I compared that with my experience
with my children, approximately a three or four year old--if that much.
Mr. JENNER. In other words, do I fairly state that your testimony, even
to the present time, and including all of the period preceding the
present time, in your contacts with her, it is your opinion that she
has a very limited command of the English language, whether you speak
in terms of reading or understanding or speaking?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
I might further qualify that, sir--that she could perhaps speak more
English words than she can read or understand.
Mr. JENNER. And you do not, therefore, share your mother's expressed
view and opinion that she understands the English language to a greater
extent than, to use the vernacular--than she lets on?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Did your mother mention to you or has your mother mentioned
to you at any time any--or asserted any claims on her part, that there
were any stolen documents, either stolen from her or stolen from anyone
else, that would be relevant to this matter?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; she has not.
Mr. DULLES. Has he spoken to you about the disposition of funds that
might have come without a clear address or indication as to for whom
they were intended as between herself and Marina?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; she has not.
Mr. JENNER. Now, Mr. Oswald, when your brother returned from Russia,
was there ever an occasion, to the time of his death, when he discussed
with you the subject as to why he had returned from Russia? This is,
apart from the correspondence. Did you ever have a discussion with him
on that subject, or he with you, or a discussion that occurred in your
presence?
Mr. OSWALD. None, sir, that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. None whatsoever?
Mr. OSWALD. None.
Mr. JENNER. Now, is that likewise true of your sister-in-law? Did she
ever discuss it in your presence, or with you?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; at no time has she.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever inquire of either of them on that subject?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I do not recall at any time discussing it.
Mr. JENNER. Nor were you present at any time when anyone else ever
inquired of either of them on that subject, up to and including
November 23, 1963?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I was not.
Mr. JENNER. I take it from previous questions that you have no
knowledge of Marina ever having had a black eye or being otherwise
molested or beaten by your brother, or anyone else.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Were members of your family together, including Marina, to
celebrate, to the extent it might have been celebrated, Christmas of
1963?
Mr. OSWALD. Christmas of 1963, sir?
Mr. JENNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. OSWALD. I am sorry--I misinterpreted that.
Christmas of 1963--Christmas Eve of 1963 my wife and I and my children
traveled from our home in Denton to the Martin's residence in Dallas,
Texas, and spent Christmas Eve, or the biggest part of that day, with
Marina.
Mr. JENNER. Did you remain over to Christmas Day?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; we did not.
Mr. JENNER. Was your mother present on Christmas Eve while you were
there?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; she was not.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether she was invited to attend?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; she was not.
Mr. JENNER. As far as you know, she didn't know you were attending
there on Christmas Eve, is that correct?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any discussion that occurred during the time of
your visit on Christmas Eve, 1963, of your mother? Was she mentioned?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; she was not.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have an opinion as to whether the Secret Service
kept your sister-in-law Marina secluded against her will following
November 22, 1963?
Mr. OSWALD. I have an opinion, sir, that they did not keep her secluded.
Mr. JENNER. Then you do not--all right.
Representative Ford is particularly concerned as to how stable a person
your mother is, which would be of interest, of course, I must tell
you, to the Commission, in judging the weight they might give to her
testimony. And while I did ask you some questions on that subject this
afternoon, would you give us your opinion on that?
Mr. OSWALD. I believe, sir, I would refer to my prior testimony on that.
Mr. JENNER. Nothing has occurred since that you would seek to elaborate
upon that?
Mr. OSWALD. Perhaps one thing, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. OSWALD. That occurred during the week of December 2, 1963. It came
to my attention from my wife, during the latter part of that week, that
my mother said on one occasion, when I talked to her over the phone, a
phone call that she had originated from her home in Fort Worth, Texas,
while the Secret Service agents were still present with her, as they
were in my home in Denton, Texas, that she turned around at the end of
the conversation and said that I requested that they leave her home.
And this, to my knowledge, was the reason why they left my mother's
home prior to the time they ever left my home. And, as a matter of
fact, some of the agents that were at my mother's home came out to
Denton to stay at my home. And one of them had conveyed to my wife what
was said that night.
Mr. JENNER. And that is an additional factor affecting your opinion as
to the stability of your mother?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Which leads you to the view that she, since this tragic
event, she is not as stable as she was prior thereto?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.