Mr. JENNER. Did he say why she had written requesting that he be
released earlier?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, not to my recollection.
Mr. JENNER. He just said mother had written the Red Cross asking that
he be released earlier.
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That is all he said?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. He didn't elaborate on that?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you didn't inquire of him beyond that?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. JENNER. When had you last seen your mother prior to this occasion?
Mr. OSWALD. May I have his release date, please?
Mr. LIEBELER. September 11, 1959.
Mr. OSWALD. I would say approximately three or four months earlier.
Mr. JENNER. Three or four months. That would be sometime in May?
Mr. OSWALD. Approximately, yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. 1959?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Had you talked with her in the interim period?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; I had.
Mr. JENNER. How long prior to his return to Fort Worth on September 11
or 12, 1959, had you talked to her?
Mr. OSWALD. I do not remember, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Well, could you give us an estimate, that is in terms of
whether it was weeks or several months?
Mr. OSWALD. I can give an estimate of several months.
Mr. JENNER. Several months?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Your mother was then residing in Fort Worth, was she not?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. DULLES. Was she hospitalized at this period?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, she was not. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. JENNER. Were you aware of her state of well being?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. During the four month period?
Mr. OSWALD. Sir? During the four month period?
Mr. JENNER. You say for three to four months prior to September 11,
you had not seen your mother, that for several months prior to that,
you had not talked with her.
I take it from that that you were not aware of her well being, whether
she was in good health, poor health, or otherwise?
Mr. OSWALD. During the approximate date of three or four months prior
to Lee's release from the service, I was aware that she did have an
accident at her place of employment there in Fort Worth, at which time,
if memory serves me correct, something fell on her, on her face, and
injured her nose.
I was aware from conversations with her at that time that she was
consulting or going to various doctors. And she told me at that time----
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Having reached that point--is that how you first
discovered that your mother had suffered an accident? You say she told
you.
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. JENNER. And I take it, then, that you had not talked with her for
several months prior to September 11 nor seen her before sometime, or
later than sometime in April of 1959, that this telephone conversation
must have taken place several months prior to September 11. Am I
correct about that?
Mr. OSWALD. It was not a telephone conversation, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You saw her?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. In the month of April '59?
Mr. OSWALD. Approximately that date.
Mr. JENNER. And did you visit her, or did she visit you?
Mr. OSWALD. I saw her at her place of employment.
Mr. JENNER. And how did that come about?
Mr. OSWALD. I do not remember, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Would it refresh your recollection if I recited some
possibilities--that she called you and asked you to come to see her,
that you desired to inquire of her, see if she was all right, or was it
that you just happened to be in the downtown Fort Worth area, and you
stopped by to see her, knowing where she was employed?
Mr. OSWALD. I believe the latter would possibly be more accurate.
Mr. JENNER. Is that your best recollection at the moment?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. She was not employed at that time at the downtown
area of Fort Worth, but rather at a suburb store, Cox's Department
Store.
Mr. JENNER. This is a shoe store?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, this is just a large department store, from
wearing apparel to toys, a full line store.
Mr. JENNER. How did you become aware she was employed there?
Mr. OSWALD. I do not remember, sir.
Mr. JENNER. How long--did you know then how long she had been employed
at Cox's Department Store?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, I did not.
Mr. JENNER. How did you become aware of the fact she was so employed?
Mr. OSWALD. I do not remember, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You have no recollection?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, I do not.
Mr. DULLES. About how long was this after the accident, or was it after
the accident?
Mr. OSWALD. My recollection of that, sir--this was shortly after the
accident. She was still employed there, even though I understand from
our conversation that day that she had been off for a while--I don't
know how long a period--and that she was still employed there. Because
this is where I did see her, at her counter in this department store.
Mr. JENNER. On this occasion, when you stopped by to see her, she
related to you an accident she had suffered--that was the first news
you had of it?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You had not known she was ill or what her state of well
being was prior to that time?
Mr. OSWALD. None that I remember, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Where is the Cox's Department Store located with respect to
your place of business? I am seeking now distance, and the convenience
of getting there.
Mr. OSWALD. From my place of business at that time in Fort Worth this
was approximately four or five miles west. I might further state, sir,
it was approximately two miles from my home.
Mr. JENNER. Did you come from your home to her place of business or
from work to her place of business?
Mr. OSWALD. I believe I went from home to her place of business.
Mr. JENNER. Was this a week day, a working day?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, I don't believe it was.
Mr. JENNER. That is not for you. Was it for her?
Mr. OSWALD. It was for her, sir, not for me.
Mr. JENNER. I take it, then, it was a Saturday.
Mr. OSWALD. I would believe that would be correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And has this discussion served to refresh your recollection
or stimulate your recollection now as to why you went by to see her?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; it has not.
Mr. JENNER. May I ask you this, sir?
When had you last seen your mother prior to this occasion that you
visited her?
Mr. OSWALD. I do not remember, sir. I would say, as we said before,
several months.
Mr. JENNER. All right. That would be several more months, back into the
winter time of 1959?
Mr. OSWALD. '58, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Yes--'58.
Well, would it be back in the winter of '58, say January? Or could it
have been?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir, not that long. We are talking, if I am correct,
sir, approximately April of 1959. January of 1958 would be well over a
year. It had not been that long.
Mr. JENNER. Well, then--I had said January '59, and you said several
months.
Now, several months prior to April of 1959, would be or might be as far
back as January of 1959, am I not correct?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, it could be that far.
Mr. JENNER. And your present recollection is that it might have been
that much of a period of time--sometime in January, 1959, to this
occasion in April of 1959 when you had--you visited her at Cox's
Department Store?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; or possibly even longer.
Mr. JENNER. Possibly even longer than that. Back into 1958.
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Could you give me your best recollection at the moment as
to the last time you saw your mother in the year 1958?
Mr. OSWALD. I cannot recall any specific time during the year of 1958
that I did see her.
Mr. JENNER. Would it be if at all quite infrequent?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, quite infrequent.
Mr. JENNER. This leads me to put this general question to you, Mr.
Oswald.
I take it that for some period of time in that area of time--that is
'58, '59, and perhaps even back of that--your contact with your mother
was quite limited?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Over what period of time did that persist? Give us the
broad picture first.
Mr. OSWALD. I would say, sir, quite frankly that the original occurred
prior to my joining the Marine Corps in 1952.
Mr. JENNER. And persisted thereafter?
Mr. OSWALD. Persisted thereafter that I saw her only very infrequently.
Mr. JENNER. Did your joining the Marine Corps--was that stimulated in
any respect by your relations with your mother, or your mother's with
you?
Mr. OSWALD. Partly, sir; it was.
Mr. JENNER. Would you state that, please?
Mr. OSWALD. At the end of the school year of 1952, which was
approximately May 29, 1952----
Mr. JENNER. You were then 17 years old, is that correct?
Mr. OSWALD. 18 years old. I, of course, was still living at home. In
approximately the middle part of June 1962 a friend of mine in Fort
Worth and I decided to take a hitch-hiking trip to Florida. We left
Fort Worth in the middle of June, 1962, and we----
Mr. DULLES. '52?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. In June of 1952 we left Fort Worth and traveled
I believed as far as Gulfport, Mississippi. And this friend I was
with--he did have a defect from birth on one foot that was starting to
bother him. And we decided it was best to return to Fort Worth, by a
different route than we originally left Fort Worth. We went from Fort
Worth to Shreveport, New Orleans, and Gulfport, Mississippi.
Our return was Gulfport, Mississippi, New Orleans, Houston, Big
Springs, Tex., and Fort Worth, Tex.
At that time I stayed at his home, with his mother and himself.
Mr. JENNER. Why?
Mr. OSWALD. Because mother and I was having a disagreement.
Mr. JENNER. About what?
Mr. OSWALD. About whether or not I was old enough to start my own life
generally.
Mr. JENNER. That is whether you would depart the family home and live
on your own?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, and generally whether or not I had the right to
start my own life in the manner that I wanted to.
Mr. JENNER. Were you unhappy with the manner and fashion of life that
you had led up to that moment?
Mr. OSWALD. Not in the manner or fashion, sir. I objected quite
strongly to the apparent efforts of our mother to control me completely
in all respects.
Mr. JENNER. Did that condition or relationship exist with respect to
your brother, John Pic?
Mr. OSWALD. I would say generally it would, sir.
Mr. JENNER. It did rather than it would?
Mr. OSWALD. That it did, yes, sir--thank you.
Mr. JENNER. And was that a factor in his enlisting in the Coast Guard?
Mr. OSWALD. It is not to my knowledge that it was.
Mr. JENNER. I take it you and John, then, had had, if I may use my
own expression, difficulties in your relationships with your mother,
particularly with reference to what you gentlemen thought as you
reached age 18, as the right to be independent and lead your own lives?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. DULLES. Do you think that your brother, Lee Oswald, had the same
feeling, that may have affected his joining the Marines?
Mr. OSWALD. Based on my own personal experience, sir, I would reach
that conclusion.
Mr. DULLES. You would?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, I would.
Mr. DULLES. Thank you.
Did your mother know about this hitch-hiking trip, or did you just go
off on the trip?
Mr. OSWALD. I just went off on the trip, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Without advising her?
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, that is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Did you get in touch with her upon your return to Fort
Worth?
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not. I would say this. I did attempt to call
her before I left Fort Worth on this trip, and there was no answer at
home.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now what led us back along this trail was the
conversation you had with your brother Lee when he was discharged from
the Marines on September 11, 1959, and his statement to you that he
had an early discharge because your mother had written a letter to the
Red Cross.
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. And then you saw her in April, and that was the last time
you saw her prior to seeing your brother on his discharge from the
Marines?
Mr. OSWALD. That is correct.