Mrs. OSWALD. I haven't been that fortunate before.
Mr. RANKIN. Well, that shouldn't be held against them that they treated
you nicely.
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I have told you, Mr. Rankin, they were most gracious
to me. The Administration was most gracious to me.
Mr. RANKIN. I don't see why you should think that because they treated
you nicely, that was any sign he was an agent.
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, maybe you don't see why. But this is my son. And
this is the way I think, because I happen to know all of the other
things that you don't know--the life and everything. I happen to think
this. And this is my privilege to think this way. And I can almost back
it up with these things.
This is a stranger to you folks. But this is a boy I have known from a
child.
Mr. RANKIN. How much money do you think, he received for being an agent?
Mrs. OSWALD. That I do not know.
Mr. RANKIN. You have no idea?
Mrs. OSWALD. But I do know this, and I have stated this. I have
approximately 900 and some odd dollars. And I lost my job. That can be
proven. I was a nurse on the 3 to 11 shift, working in a rest home, for
a very wealthy woman. And it would have been at least a year, a year
and a half case. She is not that bad off. She is just an invalid. She
is going to live quite a while.
When I returned home from the Six Flags on Thanksgiving Day, the Deputy
Sheriff at Fort Worth, Tex. went to get my pay. And the nurse, the 7 to
3:30 o'clock nurse--I went 3 to 11--and my patient cried and said that
they were awfully sorry, but they could not have me back on the case.
That the woman at the rest home refused to have me.
Now, I was not working for the rest home. I was doing private duty. But
I understand that this is her place of business, and my presence there
might have been--hurt her money part. But this is our Christian way of
life. The boy was accused of killing the President, with no proof. And
then the mother loses her job.
Now, that is my position. You asked me the question. But Marina has
$35,000 publicly. What she has, I do not know.
Now, gentlemen, $35,000 is a lot of money in donation dribs and
drabs--is a very large sum of money. I question where does that money
come from. Yes, some of it could be coming from Lee's back pay. And she
might have more than that. That was the amount made public--$35,000.
And here is a mother without a job. And everybody knows I have no
money. And my contributions are 900 and some odd dollars.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, when you say that money that Marina has might come
from your son's back pay, what do you base that on? Just speculation?
Mrs. OSWALD. I am basing all of this on speculation. Sir, if I had
proof, I would not be taking my energy and my emotional capacity to
bring all this out--if I had proof he was an agent.
Mr. RANKIN. When they asked you to contribute some money to help bring
him home from Russia, did it occur to you that if he is an agent the
government could just pay his way?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. But they don't want the public to know he is an
agent. They want me to have all of this. They don't want the public to
know. I am going around to people--you brought up a very good point. I
am going around trying to get money for this boy to come home, so the
public knows. Sure, they could have given him the money to come home.
Mr. RANKIN. Are you trying to get money now? I don't understand what
you mean by that?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think, Mr. Rankin, you asked me the question that if he
was an agent, that the Government would have given him the money to
come home without any trouble. I say just the opposite. That it was a
very good point. If he was an agent, it would make it hard for him to
get the money to come home.
Remember, I am under the impression he is coming home with this Russian
girl in order to continue his work. So he cannot be given the money
immediately to come home, because his mother might tell the story to
someone. Lee was almost a year coming home for lack of money. So then
they have an excuse to loan him the money.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever learn that he was getting money from the Red
Cross in addition to his pay--that is the Russian or Soviet Red Cross,
when he was over there?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. You don't know what he did with that?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know anything about that. The Red Cross from here?
Mr. RANKIN. The Soviet Red Cross.
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, I know nothing about that.
Mr. RANKIN. You didn't know he was supposed to have gotten an amount
equal to the pay he received from his job. He got that from the Red
Cross.
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't follow you. I do not know. I don't understand.
Mr. RANKIN. He got so much a month from his job in the electronics
factory. You understood that.
Mrs. OSWALD. In Russia?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. He was not in an electronics factory. I thought he was
working in a radio factory. All right, fine.
Mr. RANKIN. And then he got an equal amount, we understand, from the
Red Cross of the Soviet Union. Did you know that?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. Now, explain to me--when you say the Red Cross of
the Soviet Union. Is that our American Red Cross in the Soviet Union,
or this is part of the Russian Red Cross?
Mr. RANKIN. This is part of the Russian Red Cross.
Mrs. OSWALD. I do not know that.
Mr. RANKIN. It is not any part of the American Red Cross.
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I do not know that.
Mr. RANKIN. Their Red Cross is somewhat different than ours, I
understand, because the Government has so much to do with activity
there that the Red Cross is closely associated with the Government
itself, while in this country, as you know, it is generally supported
by the public.
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I did not know that.
Now, one other thing pertaining to this. When Marina and Lee returned
from Russia, and they were at my daughter-in-law's home, Robert's home,
and I came in from the job in the country to see them, I said--up until
this time, gentlemen, I thought Russians were peasant-looking people,
like the public. And I said, "Lee, she doesn't look Russian at all. She
looks American." He said, "Of course, mother, that is why I married
her, is because she looks American." In front of my daughter-in-law and
Robert. He bragged that she looked like an American girl. And there is
all little things of that sort.
As I say, I cannot remember everything in my life, because I am
going--this is way back--in a few hours time, Mr. Rankin. But there is
many, many things that come up.
Mr. RANKIN. How does that show that he was an agent at that time. I
don't understand that.
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't either. But I am telling you the expressions. He
is making a point. And what I was going to make a point--Lee loved his
work, and Lee loved the Marines. Lee loved the Marines, Mr. Rankin.
Even coming back--he was a military man. And that has also been stated
in the paper, that he had a military manner about him. I think District
Attorney Wade remarked something of that order. People have noticed
that.
Mr. RANKIN. What made you think he loved the Marines? Was there
something he did when he came back?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He loved the Marines because his brother was a
Marine, for one thing. And John Edward--that is his career--14
years. My brother was in the Navy. His father was a veteran. We are a
servicemen family. And I know Lee loved the Marines. I told you how he
read the manual before he left. And on leaves, coming home, Lee would
brag. He even said when he came home from Japan, "mother, my stay in
Japan, just the trip alone would have cost about $2,000."
Now, Lee, I know also, was in the Air Force of the Marines, and he went
to Biloxi, Miss., for schooling. Lee has had quite a bit of schooling.
And Lee spoke Russian equivalent to 1 year when he defected to Russia.
I have that on his application from the Albert Schweitzer College. And
Lee spoke and wrote Russian fluently when he went to Russia. So Lee
learns Russian in the Marines.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he ever talk about reenlisting into the Marines after
he returned?
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, when Lee returned he was with me 3 days, and then,
of course, he went over to visit Robert's house. So actually we didn't
talk. I was trying to find a home. And I didn't think he would go. I
was hoping that Lee would not go on the ship and work. I was hoping
he would stay home. We were interrupted before. When he said to me
about, that he wanted to work on a ship in the import and export
business, I started to tell you I agreed with him. And this is how you
have to do--particularly when you are a woman. A father could tell
the man, "You are not going to do this." But I went along with that.
And then the next day I said, "Lee, why don't you stay," and I went
into that--"until I settle my claim, and I can babysit and we can get
along." He said, "No, my mind is made up. If I stay, we will both be in
these circumstances." So on the third day--I knew he wanted to do this,
but I didn't think he was going to do it for a month or two. But on the
third day he came with his suitcase in the room and he said, "Mother, I
am off." So since his mind was made up, I told him goodby.
Mr. RANKIN. He said nothing about reenlisting in the Marines?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, the three days he was home. That was the conversation,
about him going on a ship. I saw his passport. And his passport was
stamped "import and export" on his passport.
Mr. RANKIN. Did it say anything about Soviet Russia on it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. What I am saying is that I saw the passport with big
writing "export and import." I think it was blue. I did not read the
passport, because Lee was there, but I happened to see the passport,
"export and import" stamped.
Whether he had another passport, I do not know. I didn't ask. I am
saying this--and God knows I am telling you the truth. I am just this
type person. It is because of my life.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you know that he spoke Russian at that time, when he
had this passport?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not know. The only time I knew that he
spoke Russian is what came out in the news. But when I really knew was
Lee's application for the Albert Schweitzer College. Shall we go into
that--the application?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. Now, the first that I knew--no, I am wrong. It is not the
first I knew. I had received a letter from Lee while in the Marines
before he knew of my trouble, stating that he was accepted by the
Albert Schweitzer College. And that letter was in the sea bag that I
told you about, that I do not have.
Mr. DULLES. Would you give us the date of that letter?
Mrs. OSWALD. The other letter would have been--let's see. Lee was told
in July about my trouble. And the other letter I would say would be
about May or June. This is March 22. I received this in care of Lee.
And you see, sir, I have a lot of addresses, because I am now living in
these homes.
Mr. DULLES. '57 or '58?
Mrs. OSWALD. 1960.
Let's see now. Then I heard from the State Department in 1961.
"Due to a number of circumstances, we found ourselves forced to make a
slight change in the arrival and departure dates of the third term. The
first lecture will be held on Tuesday afternoon 16.00 o'clock, April
19, instead of taking place on the 21st with the arrival day on the
20th. It will mean that the students arrive either on the evening of
Monday, the 18th, or before noon on April 19th. This change, however,
makes it possible to end the term on the weekend of July 2. We hope
that you will still be able to fit this change of dates into your
travel plan. Should it not be possible for you to arrive on the earlier
date we, of course, understand the difficulty. In the latter case,
please drop us a line."
So that is how I knew that Lee--I opened his mail. I didn't know
whether my son was living or dead, sir. And that is how I knew--I won't
go into all this. He made a deposit. I have all of this for you.
He made a deposit. And this is my copies to them.
Now, one thing I have forgotten.
While at the State Department, the State Department told me that Lee
had gone to Finland before Russia. And I did not know that.
Now, Lee had applied at a college in Finland, evidently, because on the
application it states such a fact. I did not know, because the paper
just said he arrived in Russia--until I went to the State Department.
So what I am trying to say--I may be forgetting a lot of important
things, because I am just now remembering what the State Department
told me.