Mrs. OSWALD. He had to make passage, and have some money. I don't know
if it took $1,600. I do not know, sir. But I am saying 5 weeks later he
needs money. We haven't gotten to this file yet.
I will quote from a newspaper, the Star Telegram, 1959, his defection,
by Mrs. Aline Mosby, who interviewed Lee in Moscow. It says here, "I
saw my mother always as a worker, always with less than we could use,
he said. He insisted his childhood was happy despite his poverty."
We had a very happy family. He insisted--this is the story in 1959. Lee
had a normal childhood.
And now he is criticizing the United States. He says, "Many things
bothered him in the United States. Race discrimination, harsh treatment
of underdog, Communists and hate." Then on the other letter he is going
to Russia to write a book. And there is another story and another
story. And all kind of stories. So what are we to believe, gentlemen.
Is he throwing us off the track because he is an agent. We are talking
about speculation and newspaper papers, and so on. And we know when he
came back that he did go to Mrs. Bates, a Fort Worth stenographer, and
talked about the Soviet Union. She made it public. And he only had $10.
And he did not finish that story. And she said he was very nervous. And
he did not say he was an agent. But she got the impression that he was
an agent. This has been made public in the Star Telegram--if you do not
have that, I do.
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, is this the photostatic copy of the letter
about his booking passage?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. You read the original?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. And this material on the bottom is just your own writing?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. This was in this book. That is my writing at the
bottom.
Mr. RANKIN. The letter I was referring to is Exhibit 200.
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, it is this letter.
Mr. RANKIN. We offer in evidence Exhibit 200.
The CHAIRMAN. Admitted.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 200 and
received in evidence.)
Mr. RANKIN. Now, this one starting, "Dear Mother, received your letter,
and so forth"--that is the one about the Marines, when he was asking
you about getting out of the service and your need, and so forth?
Mrs. OSWALD. This is the letter which shows the different character of
the boy that the newspapers are making of him--when I wrote and told
him I had sold my furniture, and that my compensation and medical was
stopped, immediately my son sends a special delivery letter, and that
is the letter "received your letter, was very unhappy. I have contacted
the Red Cross, and they will contact you." This is a nice boy to do
this immediately, when he finds his mother is in trouble. He is not a
louse, like the papers have been making him out. He might have some bad
points, but so do all of us.
Mr. RANKIN. We will ask the reporter to mark this.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 201 for
identification.)
Mr. RANKIN. Exhibit 201 is the letter you are just referring to?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. We offer in evidence Exhibit 201.
The CHAIRMAN. Admitted.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 201 and
received in evidence.)
Mr. RANKIN. Then, Mrs. Oswald, the other one that you received from
Russia, with the check and the little note from your son Lee is the one
I am showing you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you mark that as Exhibit 202?
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 202 for
identification.)
Mr. RANKIN. We offer in evidence Exhibit 202 and ask leave to
substitute a copy.
The CHAIRMAN. Admitted.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 202 and
received in evidence.)
Mrs. OSWALD. I have followed up that request and sent the $20 bill in
an envelope. And I have all of this. But I am not going to go through
all this paper. You will have all of this.
Mr. DULLES. Did that get through--just as a matter of curiosity.
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, that is what I am going to tell you. So I put a $20
bill immediately in an envelope and sent it to Lee. And then after I
thought about it, I thought of a foreign money order. And gentlemen
I have all this in black and white for you, and this gentleman will
copy and have it--everything I am saying. So then I went to the bank
and I got a foreign money order for $25, and I sent it to Lee. It all
went air mail. But it came back about 2 months later, Mr. Dulles--the
$20 bill I got back in cash and the Chase National Bank foreign money
order, that check came back in cash. I will have that proof for you. I
understand it comes back by boat, and that is why it took so long.
So I had no way of knowing that my contact with my son was successful.
I didn't know until about 2 months later he had not received my money.
And by that time--well, I didn't know where he was, because I came to
Washington in January of 1961, had a conference with Mr. Boster--Mr.
Stanfield----
Mr. RANKIN. Did you think he was a Russian agent at this time?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir; I did not think he was a Russian agent.
Representative FORD. I thought you answered in response to a question I
asked, when you thought he was an agent, you said when he defected.
Mrs. OSWALD. I might have said defected to Russia. No, sir; I never
thought Lee was a Russian agent.
Representative FORD. I meant an agent of the United States. It is my
recollection that you said when he defected to the Soviet Union, you
then thought he was an American agent.
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, that is right. That is correct.
Mr. RANKIN. What else caused you to think he was an American agent?
Mrs. OSWALD. All right. I might be letting things out the way I am
going. And I am very unhappy about this. Had I started with his
childhood I could have worked up to age 15 very peacefully, and you
would have gotten everything. I hope I am not forgetting anything
important. But now we have letters from the State Department.
Well, my trip to Washington has to come before the letters to the State
Department, sir. So I am in conference with the three men. I showed
them the letter from the--the application from the Albert Schweitzer
College, and Lee's mail had been coming to my home. I didn't know
whether he was living or dead. I did not want to mail these papers. So
I made a personal trip to Washington.
I arrived at Washington 8 o'clock in the morning. I took a train, and
borrowed money on an insurance policy I have, which I have proof. I had
a bank account of $36, which I drew out and bought a pair of shoes. I
have all that in proof, sir, the date that I left for the train. I was
3 nights and 2 days on the train, or 2 days and 3 nights. Anyhow, I
took a coach and sat up.
I arrived at the station 8 o'clock in the morning and I called the
White House. A Negro man was on the switchboard, and he said the
offices were not open yet, they did not open until 9 o'clock. He asked
if I would leave my number. I asked to speak to the President. And he
said the offices were not open yet. I said, "Well, I have just arrived
here from Fort Worth, Tex., and I will call back at 9 o'clock."
So I called back at 9 o'clock. Everybody was just gracious to me over
the phone. Said that President Kennedy was in a conference, and they
would be happy to take any message. I asked to speak to Secretary Rusk,
and they connected me with that office. And his young lady said he was
in a conference, but anything she could do for me. I said, "Yes. I have
come to town about a son of mine who is lost in Russia. I do want to
speak--I would like personally to speak to Secretary Rusk." So she got
off the line a few minutes. Whether she gave him the message or what
I do not know. She came back and said, "Mrs. Oswald, Mr. Rusk"--so
evidently she handed him a note--and Mr. Boster was on the line--"that
you talk to Mr. Boster, who is special officer in charge of Soviet
Union affairs"--if I am correct. And Mr. Boster was on the line. I
told him who I was. He said, "Yes, I am familiar with the case, Mrs.
Oswald." He said, "Will an 11 o'clock appointment be all right with
you?" This is 9 o'clock in the morning. So I said--this is quite an
interesting story--I said, "Mr. Boster that would be fine. But I would
rather not talk with you." I didn't know who Mr. Boster was. I said,
"I would rather talk with Secretary of State Rusk. However, if I am
unsuccessful in talking with him, then I will keep my appointment with
you."
So I asked Mr. Boster--I said, "Mr. Boster, would you please recommend
a hotel that would be reasonable?" He said, "I don't know how
reasonable, Mrs. Oswald, but I recommend the Washington Hotel. It will
be near the State Department and convenient to you."
So I went to the Washington Hotel. And as we know, gentlemen, there
were nothing but men. They asked me if I had reservation. I said, "No,
I didn't, but Mr. Boster of the State Department recommended that I
come here." So they fixed me up with a room. I took a bath and dressed.
I went to the appointment--because this is 9:30, I am on the phone, and
I had to take a cab to the hotel. I arrived at Mr. Boster's office at
10:30.
But before arriving at Mr. Boster's office. I stopped at a telephone in
the corridor, and I called Dean Rusk's office again, because I didn't
want to see Mr. Boster, and I asked to speak to Dean Rusk. And the
young lady said, "Mrs. Oswald, talk to Mr. Boster. At least it is a
start."
So then I entered around the corridor into Mr. Boster's office. I have
all the pictures of the State Department and everything to prove this
story is true. I told the young lady. "I am Mrs. Oswald. I have an 11
o'clock appointment." Mr. Boster came out and said, "Mrs. Oswald, I am
awfully glad you came early, because we are going to have a terrible
snow storm, and we have orders to leave early in order to get home."
So he called Mr. Stanfield--the arrangements had been made--now, the
other man--I don't have that name here for you, Mr. Rankin.
Mr. RANKIN. Is it Mr. Hickey?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Mr. Hickey. You are correct.
So then we were in conference. So I showed the papers, like I am
showing here. And I said, "Now, I know you are not going to answer me,
gentlemen, but I am under the impression that my son is an agent." "Do
you mean a Russian agent?" I said, "No, working for our Government, a
U.S. agent. And I want to say this: That if he is, I don't appreciate
it too much, because I am destitute, and just getting over a sickness,"
on that order.
I had the audacity to say that. I had gone through all of this without
medical, without money, without compensation. I am a desperate woman.
So I said that.
Mr. RANKIN. What did they say to you?
Mrs. OSWALD. They did not answer that. I even said to them, "No, you
won't tell me." So I didn't expect them to answer that.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you mean you were seeking money from them?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. I didn't think that my son should have gone--in a
foreign country, and me being alone. What I was saying was that I think
my son should be home with me, is really what I implied.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you tell them that?
Mrs. OSWALD. In the words that I said before--I didn't come out and
say I want my son home. But I implied that if he was an agent, that I
thought that he needed to be home.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything about believing that your son might
know full well what he was doing in trying to defect to the Soviet
Union, he might like it better there than he did here?
Mrs. OSWALD. I do not remember saying this. I know what I did say, and
they agreed with me. I said--because I remember this distinctly. I
said, "Now, he has been exploited all through the paper as a defector.
If he is a defector"--because as we stated before, I don't know he is
an agent, sir--and if he is a defector, that is his privilege, as an
individual.
And they said, "Mrs. Oswald, we want you to know that we feel the same
way about it." That was their answer.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything about possibly he liked the Soviet way
of life better than ours?
Mrs. OSWALD. I may have. I do not remember, sir. Honestly. I may have
said that. I recall that they agreed with me, and they said, "We want
him also to do what he wants to do."
So now this is January 2, 1961, is my trip to Washington. Approximately
8 weeks later, on March 22, 1961--which is 8 weeks--I received a letter
from the State Department informing me of my son's address.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall that they assured you there was no evidence
he was an agent?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, there was no comment to that effect.
Mr. RANKIN. And they told you to dismiss any such ideas from your mind?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. You are sure they didn't tell you that?
Mrs. OSWALD. I am positive. I said to them, "Of course, I don't expect
you to answer me." No, sir, there was nothing mentioned about the agent
at all. And in fact, I would think, just as a layman, that the State
Department would not even consider discussing that with me. But I mean
it was not discussed. I am positive of that.
Mr. RANKIN. If they recorded in a memorandum as of that date that they
did say that to you, that would be incorrect?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is incorrect, emphatically incorrect. That is
incorrect. Because I said, "I don't expect you to tell me. But if he is
an agent," I didn't think it was the thing to do.
Well, on January 21 was my trip to Washington, 1961. Approximately 8
weeks later, on March 22, 1961, I received a letter from the State
Department informing me of my son's address, which you probably have,
if you don't, sir, I have the copies. And also stating that my son
wishes to return back to the United States--just 8 weeks after my trip
to Washington.
Now, you want to know why I think my son is an agent. And I have been
telling you all along.
Here is a very important thing why my son was an agent. On March 22
I receive a letter of his address and stating that my son wishes to
return back to the United States. You have that, sir?
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. On April 30, 1961, he marries a Russian
girl--approximately 5 weeks later.
Now, why does a man who wants to come back to the United States,
5 weeks later--here is the proof--April 30, 1961, is the wedding
date--marry a Russian girl? Because I say--and I may be wrong--the U.S.
Embassy has ordered him to marry this Russian girl. And a few weeks
later, May 16, 1961, he is coming home with the Russian girl. And as we
know, he does get out of the Soviet Union with the Russian girl, with
money loaned to him by the U.S. Embassy. I may be wrong, gentlemen, but
two on two in my books makes four.
I have many more things that can go to this, and that has been
published. I will probably never know whether my son was an agent,
because I do not expect to be told these facts. But isn't it peculiar
that a boy is coming home, and the Embassy informs me of that--I have
all this, Mr. Rankin, and you know I do. You will have the copies. And
then 5 weeks later he marries a Russian girl. And the proof of it is
that he does come home with the Russian girl in a short length of time.
And Lee would have been home 1 year earlier. But because of the lack of
money to come home.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever ask him whether he married the Russian girl
because they ordered him to?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir. I have never asked Lee any questions of that
kind. The only question I asked Lee was when they were living with me
that 1 month, I said, "Lee, I want to know one thing. Why is it you
came back to the United States when you had a job and you were married
to a Russian girl," and they sent me lovely gifts and photographs and
everything. So they seemed to be well off.
I have a beautiful scarf--they sent tea, boxes of candy, which the
postage is terrific. He says, "not even Marina knows that." And that
is the only question I have ever asked my son. This may be hard to
believe. But I have explained to you over and over that I think we, as
individuals, have a right to our own life.
Mr. RANKIN. You saw your daughter-in-law and your son living together
with you, didn't you, for some time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. They lived with me 1 month.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you think they were in love with each other?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, they were definitely in love with each other. Yes, I
think they were in love with each other.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you think at that time it was just because he was an
agent and ordered to marry her that he married her?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I would say this. This is purely speculation. He knew
Marina, and he loved Marina. They met at a dance. So that was--he had a
girl friend. We are saying if he is an agent--I have to say "if." Then
he tells the Embassy that he is in love with a Russian girl. And so it
is a good idea to bring the Russian girl to the United States. He will
have contacts.
Now, when I was in Mrs. Paine's home, on the table was a lot of papers
from Lee. The Daily Worker I happen to know about. And many, many
subversive--now, I say if Lee is going to assassinate a President, or
Lee is anything that he is otherwise than an agent, Lee would not have
all these things, he would not have his finger in everything.
He would not be reading only communism and Marxism, that he would be
a fanatic about that one thing and have a cause to assassinate the
President.
But that is not the picture of Lee Harvey Oswald. Lee has his hand in
everything.
Mr. RANKIN. What do you mean by everything?
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, Cuba--because we know in New Orleans he was arrested
for Fair Play for Cuba. He read the Daily Worker. And the other ones
I don't know. But it was in the paper. There is plenty of subversive
material.
Mr. RANKIN. What about books? Did he read books much while he was
living with you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he read continuously. He went immediately to the
library upon coming to the United States. He read continuously. All
kinds of books. I tried, when he defected--I went to the library to
find out the kind of literature that Lee read. But they could not
give me that information. They said the only way they could give that
information was when a book was overdue, and was out. But otherwise
they have no record.
Now, it has been stated in the paper--maybe New Orleans is different, I
don't know, but I know in Fort Worth I could not get the information.
Stated he had books--the assassination of Huey Long and things of that
sort. They must have a different system. Because in Fort Worth, Tex.,
they do not have that system. The only way they can tell is if a book
is out. But I know Lee read. And I have stated in 1959 all of this.
Anyway, from Vincent Peale on down to anything you want to mention. Lee
read continuously.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, was there any time that Marina said anything to you to
lead you to believe that she thought your son, Lee, married her because
he was an agent?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, no, sir. Not at any time at all.
Mr. RANKIN. You think she loved him?
Mrs. OSWALD. I believe that Marina loved him in a way. But I believe
that Marina wanted to come to America. I believe that Lee had talked
America to her, and she wanted to come to America. I say this for a lot
of little things that happened--that Marina wanted to come to America.
Maybe she loved him. I am sure she did, anyway. She said that she did.
Mr. RANKIN. I am not clear about this being ordered to marry her. You
don't mean that your son didn't love her.
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, I could mean that--if he is an agent, and he has a
girl friend, and it is to the benefit of the country that he marry this
girl friend, and the Embassy helped him get this Russian girl out of
Russia--let's face it, well, whether he loved her or not, he would take
her to America, if that would give him contact with Russians, yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN. Is that what you mean?
Mrs. OSWALD. I would say that.
Mr. RANKIN. And you don't think it was because your son loved her, then?
Mrs. OSWALD. I do not know whether my son loved her or not. But I am
telling you why he would do this--in 5-weeks time. Now, you have a
5-week period in here.
Mr. RANKIN. I understand that. But I think it is a very serious thing
to say about your son, that he would do a thing like that to a girl.
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, it is not a serious thing. I know a little about
the CIA, and so on, the U-2, Powers, and things that have been made
public. They go through any extreme for their country. I do not think
that would be serious for him to marry a Russian girl and bring her
here, so he would have contact. I think that is all part of an agent's
duty.
Mr. RANKIN. You think your son was capable of doing that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, I think my son was an agent. I certainly do.
Mr. RANKIN. Have you got anything more that caused you to think he was
an agent?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, I have things that have been coming out in the paper.
And I am not the only one that thinks my son is an agent. There has
been many, many publications questioning whether Lee was an agent or
not because of circumstances, and so on, and so forth, through the
newspapers.
Mr. RANKIN. That is newspaper accounts you are talking about now?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. And as I said about the FBI.
Mr. RANKIN. What about your own knowledge?
Mrs. OSWALD. Well, that is why I wanted to go into the story. I
wouldn't have become emotionally upset had I started in sequence.
I told you about him not wanting me to see that program. And then
the letters. There is so much. About him being an agent--all of his
correspondence with the Embassy in Moscow. I have the letters in
the hotel. One of the letters states that the Russians cannot hold
you--"the Russians cannot hold you. You are an American citizen. You
are not a bona fide Russian resident." We have the letters. You have a
copy of the letter, Mr. Rankin.
And "if you will show this letter to the Russians, they cannot hold you
in Minsk."
Mr. RANKIN. They would say that about you if you were over there, or
anyone.
Mrs. OSWALD. The point I am trying to bring there is Lee has always
been an American citizen--according to all of my papers from the State
Department.
Mr. RANKIN. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. And they would say that about anyone--all right, I will
grant you that. You are probably right.
Mr. RANKIN. So that doesn't prove he is an agent, that I can see.
Now, how do you feel it shows he was an agent?
Mrs. OSWALD. Because he has the sanction of the American Embassy all
through this affair.
Mr. RANKIN. They would give that to any of us.
Mrs. OSWALD. All right--so you are telling me that. But this man is
married to a Russian girl, and does come back within a short time, and
could have come back sooner. It was the lack of money. And that is
another thing.
The State Department repeatedly kept writing me, and I have the
letters, for the money. I have copies of my letters also. I could not
raise the money. I said I had a '54 Buick car, and all I could get a
loan on was $250. They wrote back and said could you ask some friends,
or do you have any relatives--800 and some odd dollars they needed. And
I went to 12 very prominent people in Vernon, Tex.--one who is a very
respected citizen that they recommended me to go, who has a citizen
award. And I felt very confident maybe he would help me. I told him
that my son, who was a very young man, who was an American citizen, is
trying to get back to the United States, but there is lack of money,
and if he knew of any way possible he could help me.
He said "You mean he is a defector?" I said, "Possibly so. The paper
has said he was a defector." And he said, "Well, I am sorry, Mrs.
Oswald, but these boys that are in the service and defect, I don't have
any use for."
And I said, "Do you go to church, sir?" He said, "Yes, I do." And I
said, "Probably you go to church to put your hat on. Because here is a
boy. Let's say he has made a mistake. He has gone to Russia. But let's
say he realizes now he has made a mistake, and he wants to come back.
Are you telling me you won't help him?"
"That is what I am telling you, Mrs. Oswald. I don't have any use for
anybody." Which Senator Tower said that he would not help Lee--made
it public. These are nice people saying this. I say the ones who are
down and out are the ones that need the help. This boy was a young boy.
Let's say he is not an agent. Let's say he defected to Russia. Yet he
wants to come back. He deserved a helping hand. I went to 12 people. I
did not beg. But I presented my case. And not a one offered to help.
Mr. RANKIN. Didn't you understand that the State Department had to try
to find out if they could--or you or your son could get the money from
other sources before they could advance the money?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, I understand that. I am trying to tell you that
I tried awfully hard, but with no success.
Mr. RANKIN. So they were just trying to do their duty in that regard,
were they not?
Mrs. OSWALD. It could be, yes. It could be.
Mr. RANKIN. You don't think that makes him an agent, just because they
asked you----
Mrs. OSWALD. I think--well, as you say, they would probably help
anyone. And then again, because he is married to a Russian girl, and
because all these documents and everything are handled through the
U.S. Embassy. And because of my trip to Washington--which was red
carpet treatment. Let's say, gentlemen, if a woman gets on the phone at
9 o'clock and has an appointment at 11 o'clock with three big men, that
is wonderful treatment.
Now, they probably would do that to anybody. I don't know.