The President's Commission met at 10 a.m. on February 6, 1964, at 200
Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman
Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, and
Allen W. Dulles, members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Melvin Aron
Eisenberg, assistant counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel;
William D. Krimer, and Leon I. Gopadze, interpreters; and John M.
Thorne, attorney for Mrs. Lee Harvey Oswald.
The CHAIRMAN. The Commission will be in order. We will proceed again.
Mr. Rankin?
Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, if I may return a moment with you to the time
that you told us about your husband practicing with the rifle at Love
Field. As I recall your testimony, you said that he told you that he
had taken the rifle and practiced with it there, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. I knew that he practiced with it there. He told me, later.
Mr. RANKIN. And by practicing with it, did you mean that he fired the
rifle there, as you understood it?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know what he did with it there. He probably fired
it. But I didn't see him.
Mr. RANKIN. And then you said that you had seen him cleaning it after
he came back, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, do you recall your husband having any ammunition
around the house at any time?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. And where do you remember his having it in the places you
lived?
Mrs. OSWALD. On Neely Street, in Dallas, and New Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether that was rifle ammunition or rifle and
pistol ammunition?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was for the rifle. Perhaps he had some pistol
ammunition there, but I would not know the difference.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you observe how much ammunition he had at any time?
Mrs. OSWALD. He had a box of about the size of this.
Mr. RANKIN. Could you give us a little description of how you indicated
the box? Was it 2 or 3 inches wide?
Mrs. OSWALD. About the size here on the pad.
Mr. RANKIN. About 3 inches wide and 6 inches long?
Mrs. OSWALD. Probably.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, do you recall that you said to your husband at any
time that he was just studying Marxism so he could get attention?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. In order to cause him not to be so involved in some of
these ideas, did you laugh at some of his ideas that he told you about,
and make fun of him?
Mrs. OSWALD. Of course.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he react to that?
Mrs. OSWALD. He became very angry.
Mr. RANKIN. And did he ask you at one time, or sometimes, not to make
fun of his ideas?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, returning to the period in Russia, while your husband
was courting you, did you talk to him, he talk to you, about his
childhood?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, not very much. Only in connection with photographs,
where he was a boy in New York, in the zoo. Then in the Army--there is
a snapshot taken right after he joined the Army.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you about anything he resented about his
childhood?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said it was hard for him during his childhood, when he
was a boy, because there was a great age difference between him and
Robert, and Robert was in some sort of a private school. He also wanted
to have a chance to study, but his mother was working, and he couldn't
get into a private school, and he was very sorry about it.
Mr. RANKIN. In talking about that, did he indicate a feeling that he
had not had as good an opportunity as his brother Robert?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. When he talked about his service in the Marines, did he
tell you much about what he did?
Mrs. OSWALD. He didn't talk much about it, because there wasn't very
much there of interest to me. But he was satisfied.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he indicate that he was unhappy about his service with
the Marines?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, he had good memories of his service in the Army. He
said that the food was good and that sometimes evenings he had a chance
to go out.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything about his mother during this period of
time?
Mrs. OSWALD. This was before we were married. I had once asked Lee
whether he had a mother, and he said he had no mother. I started to
question him as to what had happened, what happened to her, and he said
that I should not question him about it.
After we were married, he told me that he had not told me the truth,
that he did have a mother, but that he didn't love her very much.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why he didn't love her?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall anything more he said about his brother
Robert at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he had a good wife, that he had succeeded
fairly well in life, that he was smart and capable.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything about having any affection for him?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he loved Robert. He said that when Robert married
Vada that his mother had been against the marriage and that she had
made a scene, and this was one of the reasons he didn't like his mother.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything about his half brother, by the name of
Pic--I guess the last name was Pic--Robert Pic?
Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he had a half brother by the name of Pic from
his mother's first marriage, but he didn't enlarge upon the subject. It
is only that I knew he had a half brother by that name.
He said that at one time they lived with this John Pic and his wife,
but that his wife and the mother frequently had arguments, quarrels. He
said it was hard for him to witness these scenes, it was unpleasant.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you regard your husband's wage or salary at Minsk as
high for the work he was doing?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. He received as much as the others in similar jobs.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband have friends in Minsk when you first met
him?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. How did he seem to get along with these friends?
Mrs. OSWALD. He had a very good relationship with them.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he discuss any of them with you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Will you tell us when you married your husband?
Mrs. OSWALD. April 30, 1961.
Mr. RANKIN. Was there a marriage ceremony?
Mrs. OSWALD. Not in a church, of course. But in the institution called
Zags, where we were registered.
Mr. RANKIN. Was anyone else present at the ceremony?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, our friends were there.
Mr. RANKIN. Who else was there?
Mrs. OSWALD. No one besides my girlfriends and some acquaintances. My
uncle and aunt were busy preparing the house, and they were not there
for that reason.
Mr. RANKIN. After you were married did you go to live in your husband's
apartment there?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you buy any new furniture?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. When was your baby born?
Mrs. OSWALD. February 15, 1962.
Mr. RANKIN. What is her name?
Mrs. OSWALD. June Lee Oswald.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you stop working before the birth of the baby?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you return to work after the baby was born?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you and your husband get along during the period
that you were in Minsk, after you were married?
Mrs. OSWALD. We lived well.
Mr. RANKIN. Were you a member of the trade union at Minsk?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have a membership booklet?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, a booklet.
Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 21 and ask you if that is the trade
union booklet that you had there.
Mrs. OSWALD. I never have a good photograph.
Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 21.
The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted and take the next number.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 21 and
received in evidence.)
Mr. RANKIN. Did you pay dues to the trade union?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. We didn't notice any notation of dues payments in this
booklet, Exhibit 21. Do you know why that was?
Mrs. OSWALD. I forgot to paste the stamps in.
Mr. RANKIN. That is for the period between 1956 and 1959, they don't
seem to be in there.
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. But you made the payments--you just didn't put the stamps
in, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Simply because this is not important. I got the
stamps, but the stubs remained with the person to whom I made the
payment.
Mr. RANKIN. We noted that the book shows a birth date of 1940 rather
than 1941. Do you know how that happened?
Mrs. OSWALD. The girl who prepared this booklet thought that I was
older and put down 1940 instead of 1941.
Mr. RANKIN. The booklet doesn't seem to show any registration in Minsk.
Do you know why that would occur?
Mrs. OSWALD. Because the booklet was issued in Leningrad.
Mr. RANKIN. Is it the practice to record a registration in a city that
you move to, or isn't that a practice that is followed?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband engage in any Communist Party activities
while he was in the Soviet Union?
Mrs. OSWALD. Not at all--absolutely not.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know whether he was a member of any organization
there?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he was also a member of a trade union, as
everybody who works belongs to a trade union. Then he had a card from a
hunting club, but he never visited it. He joined the club, apparently.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he go hunting while he was there?
Mrs. OSWALD. We only went once, with him and with my friends.
Mr. RANKIN. Was that when he went hunting for squirrels?
Mrs. OSWALD. If he marked it down in his notebook that he went hunting
for squirrels, he never did. Generally they wanted to kill a squirrel
when we went there, or some sort of a bird, in order to boast about it,
but they didn't.
Mr. RANKIN. Were there any times while he was in the Soviet Union after
your marriage that you didn't know where he went?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. When did you first learn that he was planning to try to go
back to the United States?
Mrs. OSWALD. After we were married, perhaps a month after.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you discuss the matter at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. We didn't discuss it--we talked about it--because we
didn't make any specific plans.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall what you said about it then?
Mrs. OSWALD. I said, "Well, if we will go, we will go. If we remain, it
doesn't make any difference to me. If we go to China, I will also go."
Mr. RANKIN. Did you and your husband make a trip to Moscow in
connection with your plans to go to the United States?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. We went to the American Embassy.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband make a trip to Moscow alone before that?
About his passport?
Mrs. OSWALD. He didn't go alone. He actually left a day early and the
following morning I was to come there.
Mr. RANKIN. I understood that he didn't get any permission to make this
trip to Moscow away from Minsk. Do you know whether that is true?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know about this. I know that he bought a ticket
and he made the flight.
Mr. RANKIN. According to the practice, then, would he be permitted to
go to Moscow from Minsk without the permission of the authorities?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know whether he had the right to go to Moscow.
Perhaps he did, because he had a letter requesting him to visit the
Embassy. But he could not go to another city without permission of the
authorities.
Mr. RANKIN. When the decision was made to come to the United States,
did you discuss that with your family?
Mrs. OSWALD. First when we made the decision, we didn't know what would
come of it later, what would happen further. And Lee asked me not to
talk about it for the time being.
Mr. RANKIN. Later, did you discuss it with your family?
Mrs. OSWALD. Later when I went to visit the Embassy, my aunt found out
about it, because they had telephoned from work, and she was offended
because I had not told her about it. They were against our plan.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you tell your friends about your plans after you were
trying to arrange to go to the United States?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Was there some opposition by people in the Soviet Union to
your going to the United States?
Mrs. OSWALD. Somewhat. You can't really call that opposition. There
were difficult times.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us what you mean by that?
Mrs. OSWALD. First, the fact that I was excluded from the Komsomol.
This was not a blow for me, but it was, of course, unpleasant. Then
all kinds of meetings were arranged and members of the various
organizations talked to me. My aunt and uncle would not talk to me for
a long time.
Mr. RANKIN. And that was all because you were planning to go to the
United States?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Were you hospitalized and received medical treatment
because of all of these things that happened at that time, about your
leaving?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
What?
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have any nervous disorder in 1961 that you were
hospitalized for?
Mrs. OSWALD. I was nervous, but I didn't go to the hospital. I am
nervous now, too.
Mr. RANKIN. Then you went to Kharkov on a vacation, didn't you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
If you have a record of the fact that I was in the hospital, yes, I
was. But I was in the hospital only as a precaution because I was
pregnant. I have a negative Rh factor, blood Rh factor, and if Lee had
a positive they thought--they thought that he had positive--even though
he doesn't. It turned out that we both had the same Rh factor.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you receive a promotion about this time in the work you
were doing?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, no one gets promoted. You work for 10 years as an
assistant. All the assistants were on the same level. There were no
sub-managers, except for the manager who was in charge of the pharmacy.
Mr. RANKIN. What I am asking is your becoming an assistant druggist.
Was that something different?
Mrs. OSWALD. At first I was--I have to call it--an analyst. My job was
to check prescriptions that had been prepared. There was no vacancy for
an assistant, pharmacy assistant at first. But then I liked the work of
a pharmacist's assistant better, and I changed to that.
Mr. RANKIN. I will hand you Exhibit 22 and ask you if that is a book
that shows that you were promoted or became an assistant druggist.
Mrs. OSWALD. The entry here said, "Hired as chemist analyst of the
pharmacy."