Mrs. OSWALD. It is strange to reconcile this. When he was there he was
saying good things about America.
Mr. RANKIN. And when he was talking only to you, did he do that, too?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Before you were married, did you find out anything about
his plans to return to America?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you learn anything before you were married about the
fact that there might be some doubt whether he could return to the
United States?
Mrs. OSWALD. Once before we were married we had a talk and I asked him
whether he could return to the United States if he wanted to, and he
said no, he could not.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he tell you why?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. At that time, he didn't. He said that when he had
arrived, he had thrown his passport on a table and said that he would
not return any more to the United States. He thought that they would
not forgive him such an act.
Mr. RANKIN. Before you were married, did you ever say to him you would
like to go to the United States?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us what attracted you to him?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know. First, the fact that he was--he didn't look
like others. You could see he was an American. He was very neat, very
polite, not the way he was here, not as you know him here. And it
seemed that he would be a good family man. And he was good.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you talk about many things when you were together, when
he was courting you?
Mrs. OSWALD. We talked about everything, about the moon and the weather.
Mr. RANKIN. Where was he living at that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. In Minsk. By the way, on the same street where I lived.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he have an apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. By the way, this was the same apartment where I had
dreamed to live. I didn't know about it yet. It had a very beautiful
balcony, terrace. I would look at that building sometimes and say it
would be good to visit in that building, visit someone there, but I
never thought that I would wind up living there.
Mr. RANKIN. Can you describe the number of rooms there were in his
apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. We had a small room--one room, kitchen, foyer, and
bathroom. A large terrace, balcony.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what he paid for rent?
Mrs. OSWALD. For two it was quite sufficient. Seven and a half rubles
per month.
Mr. RANKIN. Wasn't that pretty cheap for such a nice apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was cheap.
Mr. RANKIN. Was this apartment nicer than most in this city?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, in that city they have good apartments because the
houses are new. That is, on a Russian scale, of course. You cannot
compare it to private houses people live in here.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he have an automobile?
Mrs. OSWALD. Oh, no. In Russia this is a problem. In Russia it is
difficult to have an automobile.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he have a television set?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. Only a radio receiver, a record player.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have a telephone?
Mrs. OSWALD. No--I don't like television.
Mr. RANKIN. Why?
Mrs. OSWALD. The programs are not always interesting, and you can get
into a stupor just watching television. It is better to go to the
movies.
Mr. RANKIN. What was his occupation at this time?
Mrs. OSWALD. He worked in a radio plant in Minsk.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what his work was?
Mrs. OSWALD. As an ordinary laborer--metal worker. From that point of
view, he was nothing special. I had a greater choice in the sense that
many of my friends were engineers and doctors. But that is not the main
thing.
Mr. RANKIN. Did others with a similar job have similar apartments?
Mrs. OSWALD. The house in which we lived belonged to the factory in
which Lee worked. But, of course, no one had a separate apartment
for only two persons. I think that Lee had been given better living
conditions, better than others, because he was an American. If Lee had
been Russian, and we would have had two children, we could not have
obtained a larger apartment. But since he was an American, we would
have obtained the larger one. It seems to me that in Russia they treat
foreigners better than they should. It would be better if they treated
Russians better. Not all foreigners are better than the Russians.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say whether he liked this job?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, he didn't like it.
Mr. RANKIN. What did he say about it?
Mrs. OSWALD. First of all, he was being ordered around by someone. He
didn't like that.
Mr. RANKIN. Anything else?
Mrs. OSWALD. And the fact that it was comparatively dirty work.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything about the Russian system, whether he
liked it or not?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He didn't like it. Not everything, but some things.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he say anything about Communists and whether he liked
that?
Mrs. OSWALD. He didn't like Russian Communists. He said that they
joined the party not because of the ideas, but in order to obtain
better living conditions and to get the benefit of them.
Mr. RANKIN. Did it appear to you that he had become disenchanted with
the Soviet system?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had expected much more when he first arrived.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he ever tell you why he came to Russia?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He said he had read a great deal about Russia, he was
interested in seeing the country, which was the first in the Socialist
camp about which much had been said, and he wanted to see it with his
own eyes. And, therefore, he wanted to be not merely a tourist, who is
being shown only the things that are good, but he wanted to live among
the masses and see.
But when he actually did, it turned out to be quite difficult.
The CHAIRMAN. I think we better adjourn now for the day.
(Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
_Thursday, February 6, 1964_