Please to send me over immediately a chaise and pair to bring
back to Dartford, and have four good horses ready to go on to
London with all expedition.
Yours, &c.
R. SANDOM,
Northfleet.
Monday Morning.
_Addressed,
Mr. Foxall, Rose Inn, Dartford._
_Mr. Bolland._ In consequence of that you sent a chaise to Northfleet?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ Did you see the chaise on its return from Northfleet?
_A._ Yes; the chaise drove furiously into my yard with two gentlemen and
Mr. Sandom, with white cockades in their hats.
_Q._ What sort of hats were they?
_A._ They were very large cocked hats.
_Q._ Were they flat hats; what are called opera hats?
_A._ I did not see; indeed they did not take them off.
_Q._ Were they quite plain hats?
_A._ Yes, with the exception of white paper or ribband, I cannot say
which.
_Q._ How were the gentlemen dressed?
_A._ In blue clothes I think; but there were such a number of persons
hurrying into the yard, that I had not an opportunity of examining; the
four horses were ready; I gave them another chaise, as I feared the
wheels of this were not very well greased.
_Q._ Had you any conversation with Sandom, or either of the gentlemen
with him?
_A._ I said to Mr. Sandom, "Will those gentlemen breakfast;" he said,
"No, they have breakfasted at my house, they have been in an open boat
all night, and are very much fatigued." I then asked him a question,
"Who are they?" he said he did not know, but they had news of the utmost
consequence, and begged I would let them have good horses.
_Q._ Did any thing else pass between you and Mr. Sandom?
_A._ No, further than my asking where to; and they said to Westminster.
I told the boys I supposed they were going to the Admiralty.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Pell._
_Q._ What time was it you received the note?
_A._ I think the note must have been received about seven o'clock.
_Q._ In the morning?
_A._ Yes; the boy was unacquainted with the town, and he went to the
house opposite with the note, and a man pointed to me as I was standing
at the door.
_Q._ At what time did the chaise come with Mr. Sandom and those
gentlemen?
_A._ I think it could not exceed an hour; I was quite surprised at the
chaise coming back in so short a time.
_Q._ What is Mr. Sandom, do you know him?
_A._ I only know him from his occasionally having horses to take him to
Northfleet; I understood he lived there.
_Q._ How long had he lived there?
_A._ That I really cannot say; I think he had been in the habits of
occasionally having horses from me for nine months before that time.
_Foxall Baldry sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Bolland._
_Q._ You are a post-boy at the Rose at Dartford?
_A._ I ride occasionally.
_Q._ Did you ride on the morning of the 21st?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ Do you recollect a chaise coming from Northfleet to your house?
_A._ Yes I do.
_Q._ Who was in that chaise do you recollect?
_A._ I have seen one of the gentlemen since; I did not know Mr. Sandom
at the time personally.
_Q._ Was Mr. Sandom one of those persons?
_A._ Yes he was.
_Q._ Do you know the other two of those persons?
_A._ I do not.
_Q._ Did you drive either of the pair of horses that took those
gentlemen to town?
_A._ I drove the leaders.
_Q._ Did they give you any orders as to which way they were to go?
_A._ Just as we were coming to Shooter's Hill, Mr. Sandom got out of the
chaise with one of those other gentlemen, walked some little distance,
and when he came back I was altering my harness; and he beckoned me, and
said, My lads we do not want you to distress your horses up this hill,
but when you get up you may get on a little: He asked what the gates
were, and said, I shall give you twelve shillings a-piece for driving;
but as to saying to what part I did not know at the time; my
fellow-servant at the wheel ordered me to go over London Bridge, down
Lombard Street, along Cheapside, over Blackfriar's Bridge, down the New
Cut, and when I was in sight of the Marsh gate I was ordered to stop.
_Q._ Did you take that course?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ How was Mr. Sandom drest?
_A._ Why I really cannot say, but I think he had a brown great coat on.
_Q._ How were the other two persons dressed?
_A._ They were in blue great coats I think.
_Q._ Do you recollect what sort of hats they had?
_A._ They had round hats when they left me.
_Q._ What sort of hats had they when they got into the chaise?
_A._ They had military hats on.
_Q._ Was there any ornament in the hats?
_A._ A paper or ribband, I cannot tell which.
_Q._ Had the horses any ornaments upon them?
_A._ Yes, laurels.
_Q._ Do you know by whose orders they were put on?
_A._ No, I do not.
_Q._ You were near the Marsh gate you say?
_A._ Yes, I could see the Marsh-gate when I pulled up.
_Q._ Did the parties get out there?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ How were they dressed then?
_A._ They had taken off their military hats and put round ones on, and
they walked away.
_Q._ At what hour in the morning was it when you got to the Marsh gate?
_A._ I should think about eleven o'clock; I cannot say for half an hour.
_Q._ Did Mr. Sandom give you any thing?
_A._ Not at that time.
_Q._ Did he pay for the chaise?
_A._ He did not, not there.
_Q._ Has he since given you any thing?
_A._ He asked us what house we stopped at, I told him the Bull at Kent
Street end, and he came to us there, and gave my fellow-servant a one
pound note, and the remainder in silver for him and me together.
_Q._ Did he pay for the chaise?
_A._ He did not pay for the chaise.
_Q._ Did either of the other two return with him?
_A._ They did not.
_Mr. Francis Baily called again._
_Examined by Mr. Bolland._
_Q._ In consequence of enquiries that had been made, did Mr. Holloway
attend the Committee of the Stock Exchange?
_A._ He did.
_Q._ Did Mr. Lyte attend also?
_A._ Afterwards he did with Mr. Holloway; first Mr. Holloway came, and
denied having any knowledge of the transaction.
_Q._ Did you see him again at any other time?
_A._ Yes, very near the time of the bill being found; I cannot tell
whether before or after that, he came with Mr. Lyte and confessed that
he was the person who had planned that plot, or participated in it.
_Q._ State what he said as nearly as you can recollect?
_A._ He said that he had done it with a view to obtain money by a rise
in the public funds; and Mr. Lyte stated, that he was one of the parties
who had been employed by Mr. M'Rae, at Mr. Holloway's suggestion; at
Holloway's or M'Rae's.
_Q._ Did either of them say who were the actors in the plot?
_A._ Mr. Lyte said that he and Sandom and M'Rae rode in the post chaise
from Northfleet to Dartford, and afterwards from Dartford to London.
_Lord Ellenborough._ In whose presence did Lyte state this?
_A._ Mr. Wakefield was present, Mr. Lavie was present, and a Mr.
Chaumette.
_Q._ Was Holloway present then?
_A._ Yes he was; they both came together.
_Q._ What Lyte stated was in the presence of Holloway?
_A._ Exactly so. Holloway stated that he did it with a view of obtaining
money, by the rise in the funds.
_Q._ Did he state any thing more?
_A._ He stated that he was not aware of the serious turn it would take;
that he did not contemplate it in that point of view at first; but
finding that it had taken so serious a turn, he had come forward and
confessed it, in the hope that the Stock Exchange would not pursue it to
extremities, and carry on the action against him, or the prosecution: He
was asked whether he had any connection with Lord Cochrane, Cochrane
Johnstone, or Mr. Butt, which he denied.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Pell._
_Q._ Do you know what it was that immediately led to Mr. Holloway's
making this communication to the Stock Exchange?
_A._ No I do not; nothing more than the publicity of the measures which
they were taking to follow up the parties, I believe.
_Q._ Did you not learn at the time from Mr. Holloway during this
conversation, and from Mr. Lyte, that M'Rae had offered to come forward
for a very considerable sum of money and state his knowledge of the
transaction?
_A._ That had been stated before publicly I believe in Mr. Cochrane
Johnstone's letter.
_Q._ I ask as to the conversation at the time, do you recollect whether
or not at the time of this interview between Holloway, Lyte, and the
gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, any thing was said about M'Rae's having
offered to be a witness for a large sum of money?
_A._ There was certainly something said, but whether it was mentioned
first by the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, or by Mr. Holloway, I
cannot recollect.
_Q._ Did not Mr. Holloway state, that in order to prevent the gentlemen
of the Stock Exchange paying a large sum of money for the communication
that would be paid in fact for nothing, he would come forward and state
the part of the transaction in which he was concerned?
_A._ I believe he did.
_Q._ It was understood by the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange, was it
not, that that communication of M'Rae's was supposed to extend to my
Lord Cochrane's part in the transaction?
_Mr. Gurney._ What was understood cannot be asked.
_Mr. Serjeant Pell._ I ask as to what was said at the time, was it not
said that M'Rae's communication was to affect Lord Cochrane's share in
the transaction?
_A._ I do not recollect that that was stated.
_Q._ I think you stated that Mr. Holloway or Mr. Lyte distinctly
asserted, that this business of theirs had nothing to do with that in
which Lord Cochrane was concerned?
_A._ He did.
_Q._ Do you know what was the sum that it was stated M'Rae was to be a
witness for, was not it so large a sum as £10,000?
_A._ That sum had been stated in a letter which passed?
_Q._ Was it not stated in the conversation?
_A._ I believe it was; but the subject of the communication of M'Rae was
so little attended to by the Committee, that it never entered their
heads that any such sum should be paid.
_Q._ Was there any letter, or any writing of Mr. Holloway's produced at
the time?
_A._ I really cannot fix my memory.
_Q._ Have you any recollection of any letter of his having been produced
at the time?
_A._ Certainly none that I can recollect.
_Q._ Do you not know that Mr. Holloway had written a letter to the
Committee of the Stock Exchange upon this business?
_A._ I really do not know it; it may possibly have been.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._
_Q._ This person Holloway was asked whether he had any connection with
Lord Cochrane, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, and Mr. Butt, and he denied it?
_A._ He did.
_Q._ Did he not, in the same conversation, deny that he had any
connection, not only with those persons, but De Berenger also?
_A._ Certainly.
_Q._ That you dropped?
_A._ Yes, I did not mean to drop it.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Alley._
_Q._ At the time this conversation passed between you and Holloway,
M'Rae was not there?
_A._ He was not.
_Q._ It was all in his absence?
_A._ It was in his absence, it was in Mr. Lavie's office.
_Lord Ellenborough._ The evidence of course can operate only against
Holloway and Lyte, who were there.
_Mr. Joseph Fearn sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ You are a stock broker?
_A._ I am.
_Q._ How long have you known Mr. Butt?
_A._ Several years.
_Q._ Were you introduced by him to Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and to Lord
Cochrane.
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ In the month of February last, were you employed either by Mr.
Butt or Lord Cochrane, or Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, to make any purchases
for them in the funds?
_A._ Yes, I was.
_Q._ At that time where was your office of business?
_A._ No. 10, Cornhill.
_Q._ Was it No. 10 or No. 86, about the 12th of February?
_A._ I believe it was No. 86.
_Q._ Had Mr. Butt an office?
_A._ He had somewhere about that time an office in Sweetings Alley.
_Q._ From the 12th of February to the 19th of February, did you see Mr.
Butt daily?
_A._ I think I did.
_Q._ At your office or at his?
_A._ Both.
_Q._ Did you generally see him alone, or in company with either of the
other persons?
_A._ Frequently all three together.
_Q._ You mean Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, Lord Cochrane, and Mr. Butt?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ When you did business for Lord Cochrane, did you in all instances
take orders from him or from any person for him?
_A._ Sometimes from him, and sometimes from Mr. Butt.
_Q._ After you had acted for him upon the orders of Mr. Butt, did he
recognize those orders?
_A._ Always.
_Q._ From the 12th till the 19th, did you make various purchases and
sales for them?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ On the evening of the 19th, what balance had he in his hand; Lord
Cochrane's transactions I believe were only in omnium?
_A._ No.
_Q._ The amount was £139,000, was it not?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ That is to say, that he had that balance of omnium?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ What balance of omnium had Mr. Cochrane Johnstone on that day?
_A._ £120,000.
_Q._ One hundred and twenty, or one hundred and thirty thousand?
_A._ I have not drawn out the balance here.
_Q._ What was Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's consol account on that day?
_A._ £100,000.
_Q._ How much had Mr. Butt of omnium at the same time?
_A._ I think about £160,000.
_Q._ Is not the omnium £130,000.
_A._ I should think more than that; I believe it was £154,000.
_Q._ How much his consols?
_A._ £168,000.
_Q._ On the morning of the 21st of February, did you sell them all?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ Omnium and consols and all?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ On the morning of Monday the 21st, did you remove to any other
office than that you had before occupied?
_A._ Yes, I did.
_Q._ Where was that office?
_A._ No. 5, in Shorter's Court.
_Q._ Is that close to the side door of the Stock Exchange?
_A._ Yes, it is.
_Q._ How many rooms were there?
_A._ Three.
_Q._ Had you one?
_A._ I had one and a small closet; Mr. Butt had another up stairs with
Mr. Johnstone and my Lord Cochrane, and the ground floor was occupied by
Mr. Lance.
_Q._ Was he a clerk of yours, or employed by them?
_A._ He was employed by them.
_Q._ Had you taken that office, or had it been taken for you?
_A._ Mr. Johnstone had taken his with one room or two rooms, I am not
sure which.
_Q._ Had the office been taken for you, or had you yourself gone and
taken it?
_A._ They had taken those two rooms, I believe, without intending to
take any more; but as I was not pleasantly situated, and was rather too
far from business, I wished to have an office there, if they could
procure it; several of my friends went to look at it, and finding it
convenient, I requested them to take the whole of it, if they could, in
order that I might be accommodated.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Whom do you mean by friends, Mr. Cochrane
Johnstone?
_A._ No, other persons for whom I did business.
_Mr. Gurney._ When was this done?
_A._ In the course of the week preceding.
_Lord Ellenborough._ When you say Mr. Cochrane Johnstone took a room for
you, do you mean at this place?
_Q._ They had taken those two rooms, I believe, for themselves, without
reference to my having any thing to do there.
_Mr. Gurney._ Did they afterwards take a third?
_A._ They afterwards took the whole that is in my possession.
_Q._ You have all of them in your possession now?
_A._ I have.
_Q._ On the morning of Monday the 21st of February, how soon did you see
either of those gentlemen?
_A._ They were in the habit of being at the office as early as I myself
attended.
_Q._ At your office in Cornhill?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ How early did you see them at your office that morning?
_A._ I believe at about ten, or a little past.
_Q._ Whom did you then see.
_A._ I think, Mr. Butt and Mr. Johnstone.
_Q._ Are you positive upon that subject?
_A._ I am sure they were both there in the course of the morning.
_Q._ Are you positive whether any body else was with them?
_A._ No, I think nobody else.
_Q._ Business begins in the Stock Exchange I believe at ten o'clock.
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ At what price had consols for time left off on Saturday?
_A._ I can hardly say.
_Q._ Did they open on Monday morning pretty much as they had left off on
Saturday evening?
_A._ I think they did.
_Q._ How soon after you had been in the Stock Exchange, did any good
news come?
_A._ I think it was near eleven.
_Q._ What news had arrived?
_A._ I cannot take upon me to say; I only knew in general, with perhaps
every body in the house in business, that there was some news, but we
rarely enquire into particulars of news, it is enough that facts are
produced.
_Q._ You were doing a good deal of business at that moment, and must
have heard something of it; did you hear any thing about a messenger
arriving at Dover?
_A._ I have heard so much since that, I cannot take upon myself to swear
what I heard, whether that a messenger had arrived at Dover, or that
Bonaparte was killed, but one of the two certainly.
_Q._ Did you hear that Bonaparte was killed?
_A._ Yes.
_A Juryman._ Were those gentlemen with you at the time the news arrived?
_A._ They were--not my Lord Cochrane.
_Mr. Gurney._ Had the good news an immediate effect upon the funds?
_A._ Yes, it had.
_Q._ After the funds had begun to rise, did you sell?
_A._ I began to sell before the rise took place.
_Q._ What was the first price you sold at?
_A._ Omnium at twenty-nine and a quarter.
_Q._ That was the first price you sold at?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Do you mean to say that omnium opened that morning at twenty-nine
and a quarter?
_A._ I rather think it did.
_Q._ However, the first price you sold at was twenty-nine and a quarter?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ What was your next price?
_A._ £29-3/8, 29-1/2, and 30-1/2.
_Q._ At what did you sell the consols?
_A._ Beginning at 70-5/8ths, 71-1/4, 71-7/8ths, 72, and 72-1/4.
_Q._ In what manner did you receive instructions for these various
sales; they were sold in different parcels?
_A._ Yes, I came frequently to my office from the Stock Exchange to Mr.
Butt and Mr. Cochrane Johnstone.
_Q._ And you reported to them and received orders?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did you receive notes likewise?
_A._ I was in the constant habit of doing so.
_Q._ Did you do so that morning?
_A._ I am not quite certain; but I am in the constant habit of
receiving notes from them.
_Q._ Do you remember hearing in the course of the morning, of a post
chaise coming through the city?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ Did that occasion a still further rise in the funds?
_A._ I do not know.
_Q._ Before business left off, the funds fell again?
_A._ They did.
_Lord Ellenborough._ About what o'clock did the funds fall?
_A._ I believe about two.
_Mr. Gurney._ It was discovered at that time that the good news was not
true?
_A._ It certainly was not believed.
_Q._ Have you an account of the different purchases from the 12th to the
21st, taken from your books?
_A._ I have.
_The Witness delivered in the Accounts._
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ From what are those taken?
_A._ From my books.
_Mr. Gurney._ Have you carried those accounts down to the 5th of March?
_A._ I have.
_Q._ Has Mr. Baily, also had access to your books, to take the different
balances?
_A._ He has.
_Mr. Gurney._ The reading of this would not be very intelligible, a
sight of it perhaps would be the best thing.
_Lord Ellenborough._ We must have the sum total or the results.
_Mr. Gurney._ I will give your Lordship the result after the examination
of several stock brokers; Mr. Baily has abstracted the whole.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I shall carry back the accounts considerably
earlier; that should be understood. If I put in accounts of an earlier
date, it must not be considered that I am giving evidence in so doing.
_Mr. Gurney._ I take it the same, as if my learned friend cross examined
Mr. Fearn upon that subject.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Best_.
_Q._ You have spoken of these gentlemen engaging in stock transactions,
you have been carried back no further than February the 8th, they had
all three of them bought to an enormous amount long before that
time--had they not?
_A._ Certainly.
_Q._ And as to sales, had they not sold very large sums, long antecedent
to the month of February?
_A._ Oh yes.
_Q._ Can you state as to my Lord Cochrane, for instance, had he not sold
hundreds of thousands before that time?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ I would ask you, did he not from time to time, down to that time,
continue to be selling large sums?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ With respect to Mr. Cochrane Johnstone--on the 10th or 11th of
February, had he not a balance of £100,000.
_Mr. Gurney._ To save my learned friend time, my account shews every
day's purchases, and every day's sales from that time.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Be so good as to look at that printed paper, and
tell me whether that is not a correct statement of Mr. Cochrane
Johnstone's account with you.
_A._ I cannot tell from this book.
_Mr. Gurney._ I believe the accounts will agree to a farthing, from the
time they each begin.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Then the larger sales will appear upon this paper
without troubling his Lordship to take them down upon his notes; there
were very large sales for all of them several days precedent to the
21st.
_A._ Yes, there were.
_Q._ I believe they began these speculations as early as the month of
November, did they not?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Mr. Butt managed principally--very much for these gentlemen--for
Lord Cochrane particularly?
_A._ Yes, he did.
_Q._ Lord Cochrane, you have told us, was not there on the morning of
the 21st?
_A._ No, he was not.
_Q._ For a great many days, I believe I may say months, had you not been
directed to sell their stock whenever it should so rise, that you could
get one per cent?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ You have told us that on the morning of the 21st, you began to sell
before the news came?
_A._ Yes.
_A Juryman._ He said before the rise took place.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ You found when you came there in the morning, that
the stocks had got to such a pitch as that you could sell consistently
with the orders they had given you?
_A._ It was so.
_Lord Ellenborough._ At what hour was that?
_A._ Ten o'clock.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Did you not sell out very large sums before either
of them came near the place that morning?
_A._ I think I had began to sell before they came, but I cannot say
positively.
_Q._ Had you not sold to a considerable amount, if you can tax your
memory with it, or refresh your memory by looking at any book?
_A._ I think I had.
_Q._ Can you tell us to what amount you had sold before any of them
came?--I do not ask to a few shillings, we deal in thousands here.
_A._ I cannot positively say--I had done much before I saw either of
them, for I was in the habit of doing twenty or thirty and reporting to
them.
_Q._ Do you mean thousands?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ You think you had sold considerably before you saw them?
_A._ I think I had.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Cannot you fix the time of your sale?
_Mr. Gurney._ I shall prove the prices every half hour.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I am not at all conversant in those things, never
having speculated in stock at all, but I am told it is the practice
sometimes to sell stock which the persons have not to transfer?
_A._ I have heard of such things.
_Q._ Consequently, if I had been at the Stock Exchange that morning, and
had found the Omnium up at 34, which I believe it was that morning----
_Mr. Bolland._ No, thirty two.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ If I had been at the Stock Exchange that morning,
and had found the Omnium up at 32, and had known that the good news must
soon turn out to be all invention, I might have sold if I had liked, a
million of stock, according to the practice of the Stock Exchange,
though I did not happen to have a sixpence.
_A._ It certainly might have been done.
_Q._ Is it not the practice for a man who wishes to gamble in the funds,
to sell stock which he has not, when he thinks they will fall?
_A._ I know it is done.
_Q._ A man who thinks the stocks may fall, may sell stock he has not, to
any person who thinks they may rise?
_A._ It certainly is done.
_Q._ Did either my Lord Cochrane, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone or Mr. Butt,
make any such sales on that day to your knowledge, you having stated you
were their Broker--do you know of their having sold on that day any
stock which they had not purchased before?
_Lord Ellenborough._ Are you not putting this gentleman in a situation
of peril?
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ If he admits it.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Why should you place him in such a situation to
deny or affirm? This does not affect the charge.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I ask whether it was done by those persons?
_Lord Ellenborough._ But that would be done through a broker.
_Mr. Taddy._ If your Lordship will allow me to suggest on behalf of the
witness, that in an action for the penalties, the question would be
whether he knew they were possessed of the stock, or not, and this would
go to make out his knowledge.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Do you know whether either of those persons on that
day sold any stock or omnium, which they had not purchased before?
_Lord Ellenborough._ That question must be limited to any thing in which
you have not had participation in the way of sale, otherwise you may
criminate yourself--having given you that caution, you may do as you
please.
_A._ They did not.
_Lord Ellenborough._ That is not imputed to them.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ The use I mean to make of it I have no objection to
state now.
_Lord Ellenborough._ No, you need not, I leave it entirely to your
judgment.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I think you told us before, those gentlemen told
you, whenever the stock rose to one per cent, above what they had bought
at, to sell.
_A._ Yes, they did.
_Q._ With respect to the taking of this office, when did you first see
it?
_A._ In the course of the week anterior to the 21st of February.
_Q._ Mr. Butt had before an office in Sweeting's Alley.
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ He found that an inconvenient one and he took these rooms in
Shorter's Court, he and Mr. Johnstone?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Those were taken for Mr. Butt, were they not?
_A._ I believe so.
_Q._ I believe you went to the rooms as to the rooms of Mr. Butt?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ I believe you thought upon seeing Mr. Butt's room, that the
situation was a very convenient one for yourself?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ And therefore you suggested, did you not, that you should like a
room in the same house?
_A._ I think I did.
_Q._ In consequence of this suggestion did not Mr. Butt give up to you
the room he had taken for himself, and take another in the same house
for himself?
_A._ Yes, he did.
_Q._ And the room being taken in this manner, you put up your name
"Fearn, Stock Broker."
_A._ On the Monday.
_Q._ Did you do that at your own idea or was it suggested to you by any
body?
_A._ It was the same transparent blind I had at my former office, which
I removed and put in the window.
_Q._ Your name in gold letters?
_A._ In black letters.
_Q._ You took your furniture?
_A._ The rooms were furnished.
_Q._ I believe after thus finding your Customers liked the situation,
you desired Mr. Johnstone to purchase the lease of the house for you.
_A._ Yes, I did.
_Q._ Was that before or after the 21st?
_A._ I think after.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Then that does not apply.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ You had taken it before the 21st and got into
possession on the 21st.
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ One of your reasons for taking it was that some of your customers
were particularly pleased with it.
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ That was on the Thursday in the week before.
_A._ I believe it might be.
_Q._ You have told us you did not see Lord Cochrane on that morning, how
many days previously to that had you seen him?
_A._ I think I saw him on the Saturday.
_Q._ You are not quite certain of that?
_A._ No, I am not.
_Q._ Does it appear whether he bought any thing on that day.
_Mr. Gurney._ It appears from the account that he bought 20,000 and sold
17,000.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ You have told us that all those three persons, Mr.
Cochrane Johnstone, Lord Cochrane, and Mr. Butt, were very large
speculators; did they always speculate the same way, or on the contrary,
when one bought did not the other very often sell?
_A._ It has been the case.
_Q._ Has not that happened often, several times?
_A._ Yes it has, several times.
_Re-examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ On that day they all sold?
_A._ Yes they did.
_Q._ They all acted together on that day.
_A._ Yes they did.
_Q._ Where did Lord Cochrane reside on the 21st of February?
_A._ I do not know.
_Q._ How soon after did you know his residence in Green-Street?
_A._ Not at all until the printed paper of the Stock Exchange came out.
_Q._ Did you know that Lord Cochrane resided at the time in
Green-Street?
_A._ Only by report.
_Q._ Not from Lord Cochrane?
_A._ No.
_A Juryman._ You say they did not sell any stock but what they had
before purchased, do you mean such as they had bought and paid for, or
only such as they had contracted for the purchase of, was it actually
bought and transferred to them?
_Mr. Taddy._ That is the very thing I have taken the liberty of
suggesting to your Lordship.
_Lord Ellenborough._ He has before said they had not sold any of which
they had not become the proprietors before, so that he is predicating of
them that they had purchased this, for they could not otherwise become
proprietors.
_A Juryman._ Is it not a purchase for time altogether, are they not all
time bargains both the omnium and the stock?
_A._ This is one of those questions I cannot answer.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Gentlemen, he objects to answering the questions as
it may criminate him, but the offence charged may have an effect upon
the funds, in which not only these individuals are concerned, but every
person who has transactions in Stock, the persons belonging to the
Court of Chancery, who have to purchase or sell, may be influenced by an
improper elevation or depression of the funds, that does not affect the
question as to the crime charged upon this record, you will consider Mr.
Gurney whether you will persist in the questions, because this man
demurs to the answering the questions, being a party in the transaction.
_Mr. Gurney._ You do decline answering that question?
_A._ Yes I do.
_Mr. Robert Hichens sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ I believe you are a Stock-Broker?
_A._ Yes I am.
_Q._ Have you for some years past known Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ I believe you have not done business for him till the present year?
_A._ No.
_Q._ From the 8th of February to the 19th did you make various purchases
for him.
_A._ Yes I did.
_Q._ At the leaving off of the business on Saturday what was the
balance.
_A._ £250,000.
_Q._ That was all omnium.
_A._ Yes it was.
_Q._ Have you taken from your books a statement of the business you did?
_A._ I have memorandums that will enable me to answer any questions.
_Q._ Has Mr. Baily from your books taken an account of purchases and
sales?
_A._ I furnished Mr. Baily with a copy of it.
_Mr. Gurney._ Then through Mr. Baily I will give all the particulars of
it.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Whether purchased with money or no they take upon
themselves the disposition of that fund, shewing that they had an
interest in the rise and fall of the funds, and that they sold on the
Monday and gained a profit.
_Mr. Gurney._ Yes my Lord. On Monday morning the 21st how soon did you
see Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ I think between ten and eleven I cannot say exactly.
_Q._ Where did you see him?
_A._ I think I met him as I was coming out of the Stock Exchange.
_Q._ How near ten or eleven?
_A._ I think it must have been about a quarter before eleven but I
cannot say positively.
_Q._ Did you receive any directions from him as to what you were to do
with respect to the omnium?
_A._ I received an order from him on the Saturday, to sell £50,000 at
one per cent. profit, and that I had sold before I saw him.
_Q._ At what had you sold it?
_A._ At 29.
_Q._ Did he give you any further instructions what to do with the
remainder?
_A._ He then ordered me to sell a certain quantity at an eighth per cent
more.
_Q._ In short did you sell the whole of it that day by his directions?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ At what prices?
_A._ At 29, 29-1/8, 29-1/2, 30-3/4, and 30-7/8.
_Lord Ellenborough._ At those different prices did you dispose of the
whole which Mr. Cochrane Johnstone held on that 21st.
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ At one or other of those prices.
_A._ Yes.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Topping._
_Q._ Can you tell me what was Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's balance on the
15th?
_A._ I think £465,000.
_Q._ On the 16th how much was that reduced?
_A._ On the 16th I sold £200,000.
_Q._ Reducing the balance of course to £265,000.?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Upon the 17th what did you sell?
_A._ On the 17th I bought £50,000. and sold £115,000. reducing the
balance to £200,000.; on that Saturday I bought £50,000.
_Q._ And you had his directions upon that Saturday to sell at one per
Cent.?
_A._ To sell £50,000. at one per Cent. profit.
_Q._ And you had done that before you saw Mr. Cochrane Johnstone at all?
_A._ Yes, I had.
_Mr. William Smallbone, sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ You are a Stock-broker, I believe?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did you shortly before the 21st of February make any purchases for
Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ You had made two purchases only, I believe, the 12th and the 14th?
_A._ Yes, only two purchases of £20,000. each.
_Q._ When did you sell them out?
_A._ On the 21st of February.
_Q._ At what did you sell them out.
_A._ 28-1/8, 29-1/4, and 29-1/2.
_Q._ By whose order did you sell them out?
_A._ I sold Mr. Johnstone's by his order; I sold Mr. Butt's by his
order.
_Q._ Was that order from Mr. Cochrane Johnstone received on the Monday,
or before the Monday?
_A._ In part it was received on the Monday, but a part on the Saturday.
_Q._ You had also, I believe, made purchases in Omnium for Mr. Butt?
_A._ I had.
_Q._ To the amount of £40,000 I believe?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Was that £40,000 left as a balance on Saturday the 19th?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ And all sold out on the Monday?
_A._ Yes, all sold on the 21st.
_Q._ Have you given Mr. Baily a statement from your books of that?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ And of the prices at which it was sold?
_A._ Yes.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Now what is the result of all these accounts?
_Mr. Gurney._ I am going to call one person more, and then I will give
your Lordship the totals.
_Q._ You had bought for Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, £40,000, and on that
21st you sold it all?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ You had bought for Mr. Butt £40,000, and on the Monday you sold it
all?
_A._ I sold it all on Monday.
_Lord Ellenborough._ If he sells all the sum is immaterial, if you prove
that he sold all of the several amounts, it furnishes a constructive
motive for what has passed.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Scarlett._
_Q._ When was it you had purchased the £40,000 for Mr. Cochrane
Johnstone?
_A._ On the 12th and the 14th.
_Q._ Did Mr. Johnstone send you the order to purchase it?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Was it upon his own account?
_A._ No, it was upon his own account, the order was from him.
_Q._ But not upon his own account?
_A._ No, it was not.
_Q._ Was the whole £40,000 purchased at two different times?
_A._ Yes, it was.
_Q._ You stated to my learned Friend, that he gave you an order to sell
a part of it on Saturday?
_A._ Yes, he gave me an order on Saturday.
_Q._ What was it?
_A._ To sell at a quarter profit if I had an opportunity.
_Q._ I take for granted that opportunity did not occur on the Saturday?
_A._ No, it did not.
_Q._ Otherwise you would have sold it on the Saturday?
_A._ Certainly.
_Q._ On the Monday you say he gave you an order as to the other
£200,000?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Had you sold the first £20,000 before you saw him on the Monday?
_A._ Yes, I had.
_Q._ At what time in the morning had you sold it?
_A._ I think about half past ten.
_Q._ When did you first see Mr. Johnstone?
_A._ I saw him soon after I had sold out, between ten and eleven.
_Q._ His order had been confined to £20,000 on the Saturday?
_A._ Not exactly to £20,000; if I saw an opportunity of selling any at a
quarter profit I was to sell.
_Q._ When you saw him on the Monday, did he then order you to sell the
remainder?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did you sell it immediately.
_A._ As soon as an opportunity offered to sell it at a profit.
_Q._ Was that early in the day?
_A._ Yes, about eleven I believe.
_Q._ When was it that you first heard any rumour of good news in the
morning?
_A._ Soon after the market opened, between ten and eleven.
_Q._ You say you had purchased £40,000 for Mr. Butt?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ When was that?
_A._ The 12th, 14th, and 18th of February.
_Q._ Different sums on those days?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Had you any order from Mr. Butt as to the sales?
_A._ To sell whenever I saw an opportunity of selling at a quarter
profit, or three eighths as the circumstances might allow.
_Q._ How long have you known Mr. Butt?
_A._ About six months.
_Q._ Had you had any transactions with him before in that way?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ He had occasionally employed you?
_A._ Yes, he had.
_Q._ Who introduced you to Mr. Johnstone?
_A._ Mr. Johnstone was in Mr. Butt's office when I first saw him there
in Sweeting's Alley.
_Q._ It was through Mr. Butt you became acquainted with Mr. Johnstone?
_A._ Yes, it was.
_Q._ If any person had known that this news was false, and had been
disposed to be a bear, he might have made his fortune by selling that
day, might not he?
_A._ Certainly.
_Q._ By selling for account?
_A._ Certainly.
_Q._ You had no directions from either of those Gentlemen to sell more
than they had bought that day?
_A._ No I had not.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson._
_Q._ You stated to my learned Friend that you had bought large
quantities of Omnium on account of this Gentleman, had any of it been
paid for.
_A._ Shall I answer that question my Lord?
_Lord Ellenborough._ If the Witness looks at me I must tell him he need
not answer any question that implicates him in a crime.
_Mr. Richardson._ You decline answering that question?
_A._ Yes, I do.
_Q._ You will decline answering any other questions that you think
implicate yourself.--Were any of those purchases real purchases for
stock transferred, or on account?
_A._ It was for Omnium--that cannot be transferred.
_Q._ You spoke of Consols?
_A._ No this was Omnium.
_Q._ Was it all bought or paid for, or on account?
_A._ I decline answering that question.
_Q._ With respect to the Consols had any of them been paid for or
transferred?
_A._ I had no Consol account.
_Mr. Richardson._ I will state to your Lordship the object I have in
that; I submit it is incumbent upon the prosecutors to prove in support
of the allegations of their indictment, which charge a conspiracy for
the purpose of enabling Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and the other gentlemen,
to sell divers large sums of Government Securities, and so on, that they
had an interest in those Government Securities.
_Lord Ellenborough._ That applies only to the two first counts.
_Mr. Gurney._ If I leave my case imperfect, my learned friends will take
advantage of it.
_Lord Ellenborough._ It does not apply to the third count, certainly
there is a particularity which is quite unnecessary in the others; it
states that by certain devices and contrivances they endeavoured to
raise the price of the funds, to the prejudice of His Majesty's
subjects, to an undue elevation, and so on, there is enough to let in
the general evidence.
_Mr. Gurney._ And there is enough in the first count, independently of
the sales.
_Mr. Richardson._ The first count states this to be to enable these
gentlemen to sell Omnium, and Three per Cent. Consols, at larger prices
than they would otherwise have sold for; I submit to your Lordship, that
in support of that it is for the prosecutors to shew that they had such
to sell?
_Lord Ellenborough._ That will be an observation at the close if they
leave their proof imperfect; perhaps I accede to you, but that would
only apply to one count, they have six more counts, I do not say that
they are all safe counts, but you will see what they propose taking
their verdict upon.
_Mr. Malcolm Richardson sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ I believe you are a bookseller and also act as a stock broker.
_A._ I am.
_Q._ You are not a Member of the Stock Exchange.
_A._ No, I am not.
_Q._ In the afternoon of Saturday the 19th of February, did Mr. Butt,
make any application to you on the subject of stock.
_A._ On the morning of that day.
_Q._ What did he apply to you to do?
_A._ He applied to me to purchase a quantity of Omnium.
_Q._ How much did he mention?
_A._ He mentioned on the first instance as much as £150,000.
_Q._ What answer did you give to that?
_A._ I hesitated to execute such a commission as that to that extent.
_Q._ How much did you purchase for him?
_A._ £20,000.
_Q._ On that Saturday?
_A._ Yes, in the morning I speak of.
_Q._ What did you do with that £20,000?
_A._ I received instructions to sell it again, if I could get a quarter
per cent profit.
_Q._ Did you get a profit and sell it again?
_A._ In a short time I did get three-eighths per cent profit, and
consequently sold it again without waiting for instructions.
_Q._ Did you then by his instructions make any further purchase for him?
_A._ I did in the latter part of that day purchase first £20,000 and
then £10,000.
_Q._ On the morning of Monday the 21st did you sell out that £30,000?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ In pursuance of instructions received on the Saturday or on the
Monday?
_A._ On the Saturday, at the time I saw him.
_Q._ At what profit did you sell?
_A._ At three-fourths per cent profit.
_Q._ What was the price?
_A._ 28-1/4.
_Q._ Have you given the account of this to Mr. Baily?
_A._ Yes I have.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Brougham._
_Q._ You were partner with Mr. Fearn, Senior, Mr. Butts, broker, were
not you?
_A._ Yes, formerly I was.
_Q._ Did you not apply to Mr. Butt, stating that you had a wife and
family, and wishing him to give you some employment.
_A._ Mr. Butt had been known to me ten or twelve years, and known to Mr.
Fearn, Senior, only as being one of my customers in the book line.
_Q._ Did you not apply to Mr. Butt yourself to ask him to serve you.
_A._ Not upon this occasion at all.
_Q._ Will you hear the question first, and then answer it. Did you never
before this apply to Mr. Butt to give you some of his business?
_A._ Yes I did.
_Q._ And he did give you some of his business upon this day?
_A._ He did.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson._
_Q._ Was any of the Omnium bought for Mr. Butt, paid for?
_A._ I would rather decline answering that.
_Mr. Francis Baily called again._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ These gentlemen have informed us that they have furnished you with
the exact statements of all the purchases and sales; have you drawn out
from their statements the purchases and sales, and the daily balances of
each?
_A._ I have. It may be necessary to state, Mr. Richardson has not
furnished me with a written account, but I have taken it down now from
his own mouth.
_Q._ Have you from that made out a general statement of the several
accounts containing the daily purchases, the daily sales, and the daily
balances?
_A._ I have.
_Q._ For Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, Lord Cochrane, and Mr. Butt?
_A._ Yes.
_The account was delivered in and read, as follows;--_
======================================================================
| ||
| General Statement of A. Cochrane Johnstone's Omnium Account, ||
| from 8th to 21st Feb. 1814 ||
| ||
|-------------------------------------------------------------------||
| | through Fearn || through Hichens ||
|-------------------------------------------------------------------||
| | Daily | Daily | Daily || Daily | Daily | Daily ||
| |Purchases| Sales |Balances||Purchases| Sales |Balances||
|----------|---------|--------|--------||---------|--------|------- ||
|1814, Feb.| | | || | | ||
| 8 | 10,000 | | 10,000|| | | ||
| 9 | 47,000 | 10,000| 47,000|| 20,000 | | 20,000||
| 10 | 78,000 | 105,000| 20,000|| 150,000 | | 170,000||
| 11 | 115,000 | 35,000| 100,000|| 95,000 | | 265,000||
| 12 | | | 100,000|| | | 265,000||
| 14 | 96,500 | 100,000| 96,500|| 200,000 | | 465,000||
| 15 | 13,500 | | 110,000|| | | 465,000||
| 16 | 18,500 | 10,000| 118,500|| | 200,000| 265,000||
| 17 | 11,000 | 19,500| 110,000|| 50,000 | 115,000| 200,000||
| 18 | 38,000 | | 148,000|| 50,000 | | 250,000||
| 19 | | 18,000| 130,000|| | | 250,000||
| 21 | | 120,000| 10,000|| | 250,000| ||
======================================================================
======================================================================
| ||
| General Statement of A. Cochrane Johnstone's Omnium Account, ||
| from 8th to 21st Feb. 1814 ||
| ||
|-------------------------------------------------------------------||
| | through Smallbone. || TOTALS. ||
|-------------------------------------------------------------------||
| | Daily | Daily | Daily || Daily | Daily | Daily ||
| |Purchases| Sales |Balances||Purchases| Sales |Balances||
|----------|---------|--------|--------||---------|--------|--------||
|1814, Feb.| | | || | | ||
| 8 | | | || 10,000 | | 10,000||
| 9 | | | || 67,000 | 10,000| 67,000||
| 10 | | | || 228,000 | 105,000| 190,000||
| 11 | | | || 210,000 | 35,000| 365,000||
| 12 | 20,000| | 20,000|| 20,000 | | 385,000||
| 14 | 20,000| | 40,000|| 316,500 | 100,000| 601,500||
| 15 | | | 40,000|| 13,500 | | 615,000||
| 16 | | | 40,000|| 18,500 | 210,000| 423,500||
| 17 | | | 40,000|| 61,000 | 134,500| 350,000||
| 18 | | | 40,000|| 88,000 | | 438,000||
| 19 | | | 40,000|| | 18,000| 420,000||
| 21 | | 40,000| || | 410,000| 10,000||
======================================================================
=========================================================================
| | || |
| | A. Cochrane Johnstone's || Lord Cochrane's |
| | Consol Account || Omnium Account, |
| |from 12th to 21st Feb. 1814 ||from 14th to 21st Feb. 1814 |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| | through Fearn || through Fearn |
|----------|------------------------------------------------------------|
| | Daily | Daily | Daily || Daily | Daily | Daily |
| |Purchases| Sales | Balances ||Purchases| Sales | Balances |
|----------|---------|--------|----------||---------|--------|----------|
|1814, Feb.| | | || | | |
| 8 | | | || | | |
| 9 | | | || | | |
| 10 | | | || | | |
| 11 | | | || | | |
| 12 | 100,000| | 100,000|| | | |
| 14 | | | 100,000|| 100,000| | 100,000|
| 15 | | | 100,000|| | | 100,000|
| 16 | | | 100,000|| 50,000| | 150,000|
| 17 | | | 100,000|| | 50,000| 100,000|
| 18 | | | 100,000|| 36,000| | 136,000|
| 19 | | | 100,000|| 20,000| 17,000| 139,000|
| 21 | | | || | 139,000| |
=========================================================================
====================================================================
| ||
| General Statement of R. G. Butt's Omnium Account, ||
| from 8th to 21st Feb. 1814. ||
| ||
|-----------------------------------------------------------------||
| | through Fearn || through Richardson ||
|--------|---------|---------|--------||---------|-------|--------||
| | Daily | Daily | Daily || Daily | Daily| Daily ||
| |Purchases| Sales |Balances||Purchases| Sales|Balances||
|--------|---------|---------|--------||---------|-------|--------||
|Feb. 8 | 10,000| | 10,000|| | | ||
| 9 | 50,000| 10,000| 50,000|| | | ||
| 10 | 78,000| 110,000| 18,000|| | | ||
| 11 | 115,000| 33,000| 100,000|| | | ||
| 12 | | | 100,000|| | | ||
| 14 | 96,500| 100,000| 96,500|| | | ||
| 15 | 13,500| | 110,000|| | | ||
| 16 | 18,500| 10,000| 118,500|| | | ||
| 17 | 11,000| 19,500| 110,000|| | | ||
| 18 | 38,000| | 148,000|| | | ||
| 19 | | 18,000| 130,000|| 50,000| 20,000| 30,000||
| 21 | | 154,000| 24,000|| | 30,000| ||
| | | |Sold too|| | | ||
| | | | much. || | | ||
====================================================================
===================================================================
| ||
| General Statement of R. G. Butt's Omnium Account, ||
| from 8th to 21st Feb. 1814. ||
| ||
|----------------------------------------------------------------||
| | through Smallbone || TOTALS ||
|--------|---------|----------------||---------------------------||
| | Daily | Daily| Daily || Daily | Daily | Daily ||
| |Purchases| Sales|Balances||Purchases| Sales |Balances||
|--------|---------|-------|--------||---------|--------|--------||
|Feb. 8 | | | || 10,000| | 10,000||
| 9 | | | || 50,000| 10,000| 50,000||
| 10 | | | || 78,000| 110,000| 18,000||
| 11 | | | || 115,000| 33,000| 100,000||
| 12 | 20,000| | 20,000|| 20,000| | 120,000||
| 14 | 10,000| | 30,000|| 106,500| 100,000| 126,500||
| 15 | | | 30,000|| 13,500| | 140,000||
| 16 | | | 30,000|| 18,500| 10,000| 148,500||
| 17 | | | 30,000|| 11,000| 19,500| 140,000||
| 18 | 10,000| | 40,000|| 48,000| | 188,000||
| 19 | | | 40,000|| 50,000| 38,000| 200,000||
| 21 | | 40,000| || | | 24,000||
| | | | || | |Sold too||
| | | | || | | much. ||
===================================================================
========================================
| | R. G. Butt's |
| | Consol Account, |
| |from 11th to 21st Feb. 1814 |
|--------|-----------------------------|
| | through Fearn |
|--------|-----------------------------|
| | Daily | Daily| Daily |
| |Purchases| Sales| Balances |
|--------|---------|-------|-----------|
|Feb. 8 | | | |
| 9 | | | |
| 10 | | | |
| 11 | 46,000| 20,000| 26,000|
| 12 | 87,000| | 113,000|
| 14 | | | 113,000|
| 15 | 55,000| | 168,000|
| 16 | 40,000| | 208,000|
| 17 | | | 208,000|
| 18 | | | 208,000|
| 19 | | 30,000| 178,000|
| 21 | |168,000| 10,000|
| | | | |
| | | | |
========================================
_Q._ What appears at last to be the gross balance held by each of them
on the 19th February; what is Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's balance of Omnium
from all those different accounts, on the 19th February?
_A._ £420,000.
_Q._ Now state Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's Consol Account.
_A._ £100,000.
_Q._ What was the balance of Lord Cochrane's Omnium account?
_A._ £139,000.
_Q._ Now state Mr. Butt's.
_A._ £200,000.
_Q._ And it appears, I see, that there were £24,000 sold too much on the
Monday.
_A._ Exactly so; there was that quantity sold more than he had
purchased.
_Q._ What was Mr. Butt's Consol Account?
_A._ £178,000, and he sold only £168,000.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Then there was £24,000 too much of his Omnium, and
£10,000 too little of his Consols sold?
_Mr. Gurney._ Exactly so. Now what was the gross amount of their account
of balances on that day?
_A._ £759,000 Omnium, and £278,000 Consols.
_Q._ As we are not so well acquainted with Omnium as you are, if that
were reduced to Consols what would they have amounted to?
_A._ It may be necessary to state, that every thousand pounds Omnium
consists of £1100 Reduced and £670 Consols, therefore the whole amount
of that would be £1,611,430 three per cents.
_Q._ Now upon that amount, what would the fraction of a single eighth
per cent. be?
_A._ £2014:5:9.
_Lord Ellenborough._ The whole of this fund was cleared on the 21st,
except £10,000 Consols, and it was oversold by £24,000 Omnium?
_A._ Exactly so.
_Mr. Gurney._ Have you calculated from the accounts, the profits made by
those sales of the 21st?
_A._ I have.
_Q._ To what does it amount?
_A._ Exactly £10,450.
_Q._ That is the total of the three. Can you give me the proportion of
each?
_A._ For Lord Cochrane £2470, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone £4931:5, Mr. Butt
£3048:15.
_Q._ From the state of the market on the morning of the 21st if no news
had arrived such as raised the funds on that day, could any persons have
sold this large quantity of Omnium and Consols without very much
depressing the market?
_A._ I should think not certainly.
_Q._ Do you remember at what price Omnium left off on Saturday the 19th?
_A._ I have referred back to the books; I cannot state from my own
memory.
_Q._ Have you the books here?
_A._ No; they are the books of the Stock Exchange.
_Q._ Mr. Wetenall's accounts?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ How soon after the business at the Stock Exchange began on the
morning of the 21st did the news arrive there?
_A._ I should think in about half an hour after, but I really am not
quite certain to that point.
_Lord Ellenborough._ The business begins at ten, I believe?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Gurney._ As soon as the news came, had it a sensible effect on the
funds?
_A._ Yes; a gradual effect, according as the report was believed.
_Q._ Do you remember after some time whether there was any check or
decline?
_A._ Yes; there was about the middle of the day.
_Q._ I mean the first decline.
_A._ Yes; afterwards they recovered.
_Q._ To what was that recovery owing?
_A._ It was generally attributed to the news that came through the city.
_Q._ You mean the chaise coming through the city?
_A._ Yes; it was generally believed it was a confirmation of the former
report.
_Q._ Did that second rise which took place upon the chaise going through
the city, extend still higher than it had been on the report of the
arrival of the messenger?
_A._ I think it did.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._
_Q._ You are not under the same restraint as the other persons are, can
you tell us whether these were real transactions, or only fictitious
ones which daily take place at the Stock Exchange?
_A._ The accounts which were given in, I think were given in for time,
but I have only taken out the figures.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I should imagine the witness would say that from
the magnitude of the accounts he would think they were for time?
_A._ Certainly.
_Mr. Park._ I want to know, for I have never had Omnium in my life,
whether you are not competent to say from your knowledge of these
accounts, that these are all what they call time bargains?
_A._ There is nothing stated upon the face of these accounts as to what
days the purchases are made for; possibly they may be for time.
_Q._ I ask you whether from your knowledge of these accounts and the
investigations you have made, they are not time bargains?
_Lord Ellenborough._ He has no personal knowledge of them, he can know
nothing but from the magnitude of the sum, he may suppose they must have
been time bargains.
_A._ Certainly; there is nothing upon the face of the accounts to lead
to any such conclusion.
_Mr. James Wetenall, sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ I believe you are employed by the House to take the prices of the
day at the Stock Exchange?
_A._ I am.
_Q._ At what price did Omnium leave off on Saturday the 19th of
February?
(_The Witness referred to a paper._)
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Where do you get those accounts from?
_A._ I collect them from the Stock Exchange.
_Mr. Gurney._ Do you go about all day long taking the prices?
_A._ I collect them at different times in the course of the day.
_Q._ You go about taking an account from all the persons who are there?
_A._ I take them from different persons who are in the market.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ This is a printed paper?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Gurney._ It is printed under your directions, I believe?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Is your original paper destroyed?
_A._ It is.
_Q._ Is this paper a copy from that of yours?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Did you ever compare this with the paper on which
you took down the prices?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Where do you get the contents of your written paper?
_A._ From the gentlemen in the Stock Exchange.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I submit that this paper cannot be evidence. The
Witness states that he collects from the gentlemen in the Stock
Exchange, the prices at which they buy and sell, from time to time, in
the course of the day; he says he compares this printed paper with the
original written paper; I am not objecting to that, but I submit, the
written paper itself could not be evidence.
_Lord Ellenborough._ It is all hearsay, but it is the only evidence we
can have; it is the only evidence we have of the price of sales of any
description. I do not receive it as the precise thing, but as what is in
the ordinary transactions of mankind received as proper information, and
I suppose there is hardly a gentleman living who would not act on this
paper.
_Mr. Gurney._ At what price did Omnium leave off on Saturday the 19th of
February?
_A._ 26-3/4.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Do you furnish the Bank with these papers?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Gurney._ Was that 26-3/4 the money price or the time price?
_A._ The money price.
_Q._ The time price, I believe, is about one per cent. higher?
_A._ In general.
_Q._ At what price did Omnium commence on the Monday following?
_A._ 26-1/2.
_Q._ That is the money price?
_A._ The money price.
_Q._ Therefore the time price was 27-1/2?
_A._ I did not take the time price.
_Q._ After this news arrived what did it get up to?
_A._ As high as 30-1/4.
_Q._ At what time was that?
_A._ That is impossible for me to say.
_Q._ How soon did it get up to 30-1/4?
_A._ I cannot say; it did rise to that by degrees.
_Q._ Did it stand at that, or rise or fall?
_A._ It fell by degrees to 30, and from that to 28.
_Lord Ellenborough._ So that the rumour had a continuing effect to the
close of the day?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Gurney._ Did it fall back so low by one and a half as it began in
the morning?
_A._ No.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Pell._
_Q._ Do you remember at what time in the course of the day the report
came to the Stock Exchange, of a chaise coming through the city?
_A._ I cannot say at what time it was.
_Q._ Then perhaps you cannot tell whether or not the Stocks rose again
upon any report of that kind arriving there?
_A._ According to my recollection the Stocks rose a second time; they
rose at first, then they fell, and then they rose again.
_Q._ But you cannot tell at what time that was, or to what cause it was
attributable?
_A._ It was attributable to a chaise arriving.
_Q._ You remember that?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ See whether you cannot remember how long it was after the opening
of the business of the day that they so rose; might it be three hours
afterwards?
_A._ It was in less than three hours, I think.
_Q._ It was less than three hours that they rose the second time you
mean?
_A._ Yes; the second time.
_Q._ Have you a distinct recollection of this. Though you cannot
remember the precise point of time at which it took place, have you
distinct recollection that they rose at first, then fell, and then rose
again.
_A._ Yes; I have a perfect recollection of that, but I cannot tell the
time.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._
_Q._ How often in the course of the day do you take that account?
_A._ Not at any particular stated times.
_Q._ You have nothing to do with buying or selling stock, I presume.
_A._ Not on my own account.
_Q._ But you are a Stock Broker?
_A._ I am.
_Q._ Then when you are not otherwise employed you fill up that paper
from time to time?
_A._ No; if I perceive there are any particular fluctuations, I then
make it my business to collect the prices.
_Q._ Do you mean to represent that the Stocks had not risen from what
they ended at on Saturday before any news came to the Stock Exchange;
had not they risen considerably that morning?
_A._ I think not, because if I recollect, there were reports in the
morning that news had arrived.
_Q._ We have heard from some gentlemen that they sold stock as soon as
the Stock Exchange opened; now I ask whether stock had not been sold at
a rise before the news arrived?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Gurney._ But you say before the market opened there were some
reports of a Messenger having arrived?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Charles Addis, sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Have you a house in Shorter's-court?
_A._ No, I have not; I am concerned for a gentleman who has some
property there.
_Q._ You have the letting of a house for a gentleman there?
_A._ I have.
_Q._ Was any application made to you in the week prior to the 21st of
February for any part of that house?
_A._ Yes, on the 15th or 16th, I think Mr. Cochrane Johnstone applied to
me for an Office in a house, the letting of which was under my
management.
_Q._ What number in Shorter's-court did he finally fix upon?
_A._ It is number 5, the house almost immediately adjoining the Stock
Exchange.
_Q._ Did he on that day take any part of the house of you?
_A._ He took one room for an office in that house on that day.
_Q._ The house in which Mr. Fearn is now?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ How soon did he take any more?
_A._ He called on the following day and engaged another office.
_Q._ That was the 16th then?
_A._ I believe it was the 16th, I will not be positive, and he called on
the following day the 17th, being the third time.
_Q._ Did he, when he called on the 17th, write that letter in your
office (_handing it to the Witness_.)
_A._ This is a letter he left in my absence in the office, on which day
I cannot say, but this was a letter that he left for me.
_Q._ That was on the third day after he had engaged the three offices?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ He had then engaged all three?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Are they three rooms in the same house?
_A._ Three rooms in the same house.
_Q._ (_To Mr. Fearn_) Is that letter Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's hand
writing? (_handing it to the Witness._)
_A._ I believe it is.
_It was delivered in, and read as follows:--_
"Sir,--I called again upon you to know if you have Powers to
sell the house, part of which I have taken, as I find there
are several persons in the house at present, which is rather
awkward, and makes it too public.
"If you have powers to sell I will immediately treat with you;
have the goodness therefore to leave the terms with your
clerk, or send them to me at No. 18, Great Cumberland-street.
I will however call again this day before I return to the West
end of the town.
I am, Sir,
Your obedient Servant,
(Signed) A. COCHRANE JOHNSTONE."
_(Addressed) Mr. Addis._
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Best._
_Q._ I believe he took the first room for Mr. Butt expressly?
_A._ Yes; and gave me a reference to him at Mr. Fearn's, who then lived
in Cornhill.
_Q._ And the next time he came he said he wanted it for Mr. Fearn?
_A._ No; he said then he wanted it for Mr. Butt.
_Q._ And the third time he said he wanted it for Mr. Fearn?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Mr. Fearn has now the whole.
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. James Pilliner, sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Are you a Stock Broker?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Prior to the 21st of February had you made any purchases for the
Defendant Holloway, in Stock or Omnium?
_A._ I had, in both.
_Q._ How much of either was he possessed of before business began on
Monday the 21st of February?
_A._ £20,000 Omnium and £20,000 Consols.
_Q._ Did you sell that out on that Monday?
_A._ I sold £20,000 Omnium and £14,000 Consols.
_Mr. Serjeant Pell._ Does your Lordship think, in consequence of what
you have suggested already, that the Witness is bound to answer to the
nature of the stock?
_Lord Ellenborough._ I am not apprized whether it is a real sum or not
at present.
_Mr. Serjeant Pell._ The reason I now interpose is, that if this should
turn out to be a transaction which was not real, the Witness would not
be bound to answer any question respecting it, because it may tend to
criminate himself, and involve him in penalties. The mere circumstance
of his having sold stock at all that day, supposing it not real stock,
would warrant him in declining to answer these questions.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Whether he sold any thing is a link in the chain,
or else you might exclude all the transactions of the day, because they
might ultimately connect with the vicious sale.
_Mr. Serjeant Pell._ Suppose it should turn out to be a time bargain,
these questions would be material to convict this person of an offence,
the amount sold would be very material; therefore if he is not bound to
answer the last question----
_Lord Ellenborough._ I do not prohibit him; I am only to tell him that
if these are bargains which are against law, he is bound to know the
law, and if it would involve him in any penalty he need not answer the
question.
_Mr. Serjeant Pell._ All I would request then is, that your Lordship
would now suggest to the Witness that he need not answer any question
that will tend to criminate himself.
_Lord Ellenborough._ If it will convict you in penalties, you are not
bound to answer any question.
_Mr. Serjeant Pell._ I was only taking the liberty to suggest that that
admonition may be given in the early part of the examination.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I cannot tell a witness he is not bound to answer a
question, until I see that it has some bearing and probable tendency to
accuse him; otherwise I must rummage all the statute books for penalties
to put the witnesses on their guard--I must not only carry all the penal
laws in my head, but mention them to every witness who comes before me
upon any subject.
_Mr. Gurney._ Did you see Mr. Holloway on the morning of the 21st?
_A._ Yes I did.
_Q._ Did he give you any directions?
_A._ I beg to decline answering that question.
_Mr. Gurney._ I submit to your Lordship he is not at liberty to decline
answering that question.
_Lord Ellenborough._ You may answer that question. Did he give you any
directions?
_A._ He did.
_Mr. Gurney._ What to do?
_A._ I must beg to decline answering that question.
_Lord Ellenborough._ You need not answer to what you did; but you must
state what he proposed to you to do, unless you did it afterwards, and
the having done it would involve you in a penalty.
_Mr. Gurney._ What did he give you directions to do?
_A._ To sell stock.
_Q._ Was it to sell all he had, or part of what he had?
_A._ To sell all.
_Q._ At what time on Monday was it?
_A._ About the middle of the day.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Pell._
_Q._ What is Mr. Holloway?
_A._ A wine merchant.
_Q._ Where does he live?
_A._ In Martin's-lane, Cannon-street.
_Q._ Have you known him any time?
_A._ I have known him upwards of twenty years.
_Q._ How long have you acted for him as his broker?
_A._ Perhaps two years.
_Mr. James Steers sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Are you Stock Broker to the Accountant General of the Court of
Chancery?
_A._ I am.
_Q._ Did you as broker to the Accountant General, make purchases on
Monday the 21st February?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ At what prices?
_A._ I made purchases to the amount of £15,957:10:8, at 71-5/8 per cent.
_Q._ Consols I suppose?
_A._ Yes, I have got them down in various sums.
_Q._ Was that the high price of the day, or the price at which stock
opened in the morning?
_A._ I got to my office I think about eleven o'clock, or a little
before, I took the orders from the Accountant General's office.
_Q._ At what time did you begin making your purchases?
_A._ I think from eleven to a quarter after eleven.
_Q._ Had the news then considerably raised the Stocks?
_A._ It had.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Is that all you did that day?
_A._ That is all I did that day.
_Mr. Gurney._ Did you do business for any body besides the Accountant
General on that day?
_A._ I cannot speak to any thing but what I did for the Accountant
General.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Though you cannot speak to any thing else in
precise sums, do you recollect that you did buy for any body else on
that day besides the Accountant General?
_Q._ I can speak to an entry on my books on that day, but I cannot say
whether I did the business myself. I do not recollect doing any thing
else myself besides that bargain.
_A Juryman._ At what price could you have bought that lot of Consols on
Saturday?
_A._ I can state the purchases I made on Saturday to the Court; I
purchased on Saturday the 19th for the Accountant General £6894:11:4 at
70 per Cent.
_Mr. Gurney._ I have called for Lord Cochrane's Affidavit, it is
admitted by my learned friends that notice has been given to produce it,
and it is not produced.
_Mr. John Wright sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Adolphus._
_Q._ Where do you live?
_A._ At No. 5, Panton-square.
_Q._ Do you know where Lord Cochrane lives?
_A._ At No. 13, Green-street, Grosvenor-square.
_Q._ Had you occasion to see Lord Cochrane in February or March last?
_A._ Almost every day in February and in March last.
_Q._ In the course of that time did he deliver in a paper to you?
_A._ Yes he did.
_Q._ What was it?
_A._ He delivered several papers to me.
_Q._ What was done with that? (_shewing a paper to the witness._)
_A._ Lord Cochrane brought me that affidavit for the purpose of getting
it inserted in the newspapers.
_Q._ Did you do so?
_A._ I did, I got it printed in slips, and distributed a copy of it to
each of the newspapers.
_Q._ Have you a copy of it?
_A._ I have not.
_Q._ Have you one of the slips?
_A._ No, I have not.
_Q._ Did you receive any other copies of affidavits purporting to be
affidavits of persons of the name of Smith?
_A._ No, I had no concern whatever with Smith.
_Q._ Smith and his wife?
_A._ Certainly not, I know nothing of the printing of them.
_Q._ Was the Morning Chronicle one of the papers in which you put Lord
Cochrane's affidavit?
_A._ Yes, it was.
_Mr. Park._ It must not be said to be Lord Cochrane's affidavit, till
that is proved.
_Lord Ellenborough._ He printed something purporting to be Lord
Cochrane's affidavit. I have taken it that Lord Cochrane delivered
several papers, one purporting to be an affidavit which this witness
inserted in the newspapers.
_Mr. Park._ But when once the expression is used by my learned friend,
persons do not get rid of it again.
_Lord Ellenborough._ If he published it as an affidavit, it is quoad him
an affidavit.
_Mr. Park._ To be sure, my Lord.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Best._
_Q._ You have said that he brought this paper to you, giving you
directions to have it printed?
_A._ He wished it to be inserted in the newspapers.
_Q._ Tell us all that he said to you at the time; did he not at the time
when he was giving you directions to print it, say, that if De Berenger
was the man, he had given the Stock Exchange the clue to it?
_A._ After reading the affidavit, his Lordship said "I once saw Captain
De Berenger at dinner."
_Lord Ellenborough._ Was this at the time?
_A._ Yes; he said "I once saw Captain De Berenger at Mr. Basil
Cochrane's--I have no reason to think that Captain De Berenger is
capable of so base a transaction, but if he is, I have given the
gentlemen of the Stock Exchange the best clue to find him out."
_Lord Ellenborough._ Did he say what sort of clue he had given?
_A._ The clue as to De Berenger.
_Mr. Gurney._ By his affidavit?
_A._ Yes, that by that he had given them the best clue.
_Re-examined by Mr. Adolphus._
_Q._ When was it this affidavit was given to you?
_A._ I cannot state the day.
_Q._ Was it so late as March?
_A._ No, it must be about the 27th or 28th of February I think, but the
newspaper will prove the date; it might be the first or second of March,
I cannot speak to that.
_Q._ Was it not after the 11th of March?
_A._ I cannot state indeed.
_Q._ It was given to you the day before it appeared in the Morning
Chronicle?
_A._ It was the day before, about three o'clock.
_Mr. Gurney._ Look at that (_shewing a pamphlet to the witness_) have
you received one of those pamphlets either from Mr. Cochrane Johnstone,
Lord Cochrane, or Mr. Butt?
_A._ Lord Cochrane gave me one of those at my own request, hearing it
was published.
_Q._ Look at that which purports to be an affidavit of Lord Cochrane.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Is that the identical book Lord Cochrane gave you?
_A._ No.
_Mr. Gurney._ Read the affidavit and tell me whether you know that to be
verbally and precisely the same?
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I submit to your Lordship that will not do.
_Mr. Gurney._ Where is your copy of the pamphlet?
_A._ It is at home.
_Mr. Gurney._ Will your Lordship allow him to go home and fetch it.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Certainly.
_Mr. Malcolm Richardson called again._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ You are a bookseller?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Were you employed by Mr. Butt to publish that pamphlet?
_A._ Not absolutely employed by him to publish it, but I sold it for him
at his request, he wrote to me to know whether I would sell it for him.
_Lord Ellenborough._ This should be a publication by Lord Cochrane, to
make the affidavit evidence against him.
_Mr. Gurney._ Certainly, my Lord, and if my learned friends wish it, I
will wait till the witness comes back.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I have no wish to lay any impediment in the way,
therefore if your Lordship thinks there is no impropriety in my
permitting it to be read now, I will do it?
_Lord Ellenborough._ I leave it to your judgment, whether your
resistance does you more good than the admission.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I will not resist it certainly. If I had the
original I would deliver it up in a moment, but the fact is, we have not
the original.
_The Affidavit was read as follows:_
"Having obtained leave of absence to come to town, in
consequence of scandalous paragraphs in the public papers, and
in consequence of having learnt that hand-bills had been
affixed in the streets, in which (I have since seen) it is
asserted that a person came to my house, at No. 13,
Green-street, on the 21st day of February, in open day, and in
the dress in which he had committed a fraud; I feel it due to
myself to make the following deposition that the public may
know the truth relative to the only person seen by me in
military uniform, at my house, on that day.