_March 11, 1814._
_13, Green-street._
"I, Sir Thomas Cochrane, commonly called Lord Cochrane, having
been appointed by the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty, to
active service (at the request, I believe, of Sir Alexander
Cochrane) when I had no expectation of being called on, I
obtained leave of absence to settle my private affairs
previous to quitting this country, and chiefly with a view to
lodge a specification to a patent relative to a discovery for
increasing the intensity of light. That in pursuance of my
daily practice of superintending work that was executing for
me, and knowing that my uncle, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, went to
the city every morning in a coach.
I do swear, on the morning of the 21st of February (which day
was impressed on my mind by circumstances which afterwards
occurred) I breakfasted with him at his residence in
Cumberland-street, about half past eight o'clock, and I was
put down by him (and Mr. Butt was in the coach) on Snow-hill,
about ten o'clock; that I had been about three quarters of an
hour at Mr. King's manufactory, at No. 1, Cock-lane, when I
received a few lines on a small bit of paper, requesting me to
come immediately to my house; the name affixed, from being
written close to the bottom, I could not read. The servant
told me it was from an army officer, and concluding that he
might be an officer from Spain, and that some accident had
befallen to my brother; I hastened back, and I found Captain
Berenger, who, in great seeming uneasiness, made many
apologies for the freedom he had used, which nothing but the
distressed state of his mind, arising from difficulties, could
have induced him to do. All his prospects, he said, had
failed, and his last hope had vanished, of obtaining an
appointment in America. He was unpleasantly circumstanced, on
account of a sum which he could not pay, and if he could, that
others would fall upon him for full £8000. He had no hope of
benefiting his creditors in his present situation, or of
assisting himself. That if I would take him with me he would
immediately go on board and exercise the sharp-shooters,
(which plan Sir Alexander Cochrane, I knew, had approved of.)
That he had left his lodgings and prepared himself in the best
way his means allowed. He had brought the sword with him which
had been his fathers, and to that, and to Sir Alexander, he
would trust for obtaining an honourable appointment. I felt
very uneasy at the distress he was in, and knowing him to be a
man of great talent and science, I told him I would do every
thing in my power to relieve him; but as to his going
immediately to the Tonnant, with any comfort to himself, it
was quite impossible, my cabin was without furniture, I had
not even a servant on board. He said he would willingly mess
any where. I told him that the ward-room was already crowded,
and besides I could not with propriety take him, he being a
foreigner, without leave from the Admiralty. He seemed greatly
hurt at this, and recalled to my recollection certificates
which he had formerly shewn me, from persons in official
situations. Lord Yarmouth, General Jenkinson, and Mr. Reeves,
I think, were amongst the number. I recommended him to use his
endeavour to get them, or any other friends, to exert their
influence, for I had none, adding that when the Tonnant went
to Portsmouth, I should be happy to receive him; and I knew
from Sir Alexander Cochrane, that he would be pleased if he
accomplished that object. Captain Berenger said, that not
anticipating any objection on my part from the conversation he
had formerly had with me, he had come away with intention to
go on board and make himself useful in his military
capacity;--he could not go to Lord Yarmouth, or to any other
of his friends, in this dress, (alluding to that which he had
on) or return to his lodgings where it would excite suspicion
(as he was at that time in the rules of the King's Bench) but
that if I refused to let him join the ship now, he would do so
at Portsmouth. Under present circumstances, however, he must
use a great liberty, and request the favour of me to lend him
a hat to wear instead of his military cap. I gave him one
which was in a back room with some things that had not been
packed up, and having tried it on, his uniform appeared under
his great coat; I therefore offered him a black coat that was
laying on a chair, and which I did not intend to take with me.
He put up his uniform in a towel, and shortly afterwards went
away in great apparent uneasiness of mind; and having asked my
leave, he took the coach I came in, and which I had forgotten
to discharge in the haste I was in. I do further depose, that
the above conversation is the substance of all that passed
with Captain Berenger, which, from the circumstances attending
it, was strongly impressed upon my mind, that no other person
in uniform was seen by me, at my house, on Monday the 21st of
February, though possibly other officers may have called (as
many have done since my appointment;) of this, however, I
cannot speak of my own knowledge, having been almost
constantly from home, arranging my private affairs. I have
understood that many persons have called under the above
circumstances, and have written notes in the parlour, and
others have waited there in expectation of seeing me, and then
gone away, but I most positively swear that I never saw any
person at my house resembling the description, and in the
dress stated in the printed advertisement of the members of
the Stock Exchange. I further aver that I had no concern,
directly or indirectly, in the late imposition, and that the
above is all that I know relative to any person who came to my
house in uniform on the 21st day of February, before alluded
to. Captain Berenger wore a grey great coat, a green uniform
and a military cap. From the manner in which my character has
been attempted to be defamed, it is indispensibly necessary to
state that my connexion in any way with the funds, arose from
an impression that in the present favourable aspect of
affairs, it was only necessary to hold stock in order to
become a gainer without prejudice to anybody; that I did so
openly, considering it in no degree improper, far less
dishonorable; that I had no secret information of any kind,
and that had my expectation of the success of affairs been
disappointed, I should have been the only sufferer. Further, I
do most solemnly swear that the whole of the Omnium on
account, which I possessed on the 21st day of February, 1814,
amounted to £139,000 which I bought by Mr. Fearn (I think) on
the 12th ultimo at a premium of 28-1/4, that I did not hold on
that day any other sum on account in any other stock directly
or indirectly, and that I had given orders when it was bought
to dispose of it on a rise of one per cent, and it actually
was sold on an average at 29-1/2 premium, though on the day of
the fraud it might have been disposed of at 33-1/2. I further
swear, that the above is the only stock which I sold of any
kind on the 21st day of February, except £2000 in money which
I had occasion for, the profit of which was about £10.
Further, I do solemnly depose, that I had no connexion of
dealing with any one, save the above mentioned, and that I
did not at any time, directly or indirectly, by myself or by
any other, take or procure any office or apartment for any
broker or other person for the transaction of stock affairs."
"COCHRANE."
_Mr. James Le Marchant sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Bolland._
_Q._ Are you acquainted with Captain De Berenger?
_A._ I was so.
_Q._ When did your acquaintance with him commence?
_A._ About 18 months ago.
_Q._ How long did it continue?
_A._ It continued until the 16th of February to the best of my
knowledge.
_Q._ Between those periods was Captain De Berenger in the habit of
calling upon you frequently?
_A._ He was, from the 10th to the 16th of February.
_Q._ At what period of the day?
_A._ At different periods.
_Q._ Did he pass his evenings with you?
_A._ Occasionally.
_Q._ In conversations with him, did you ever collect from him, whether
he had any connexion with Lord Cochrane or Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ I did--with both.
_Q._ State to the Court what he has told you.
_A._ He stated that he was about to go to America under the command of
Lord Cochrane; on his mentioning this, I put the question to him, how he
possibly could do it under the embarrassments that he laid under, upon
which he answered, all was settled on that score.
_Q._ Do you recollect upon what day this conversation passed?
_A._ I should think nearly about the 14th, to the best of my
recollection, he said, that for the services he had rendered Lord
Cochrane and Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, whereby his Lordship could realize
a large sum or large sums of money by means of the funds or stocks, one
of the words, that his Lordship was his friend, and had told him a few
days before, that he had kept unknown to him till that period, a private
purse for him De Berenger.
_Q._ Did he state to you whether there was any particular intimacy
between him and Lord Cochrane, or Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ He frequently mentioned particular intimacy of dining, breakfasting
and supping with his Lordship. He said, in which purse he had placed or
deposited a certain per centage out of the profits which his Lordship
had made by his stock suggestions.
_Q._ Did you afterwards hear of the events of the 21st of February?
_A._ I did so.
_Q._ Did you upon that make known to any parties, and to whom, your
suspicions of Captain De Berenger having been active in them?
_A._ I did so.
_Q._ To whom were those communications made?
_A._ To Captain Taylor of His Majesty's 22nd regiment of foot, and
Lieutenant Wright in the Honorable East India Company's Service.
_Q._ Did you collect in any conversations you had with Captain De
Berenger, that Lord Cochrane and Mr. Cochrane Johnstone consulted him in
any transactions of Stock?
_Mr. Park._ That is a pretty good leading question.
_Mr. Bolland._ Did he state to you any thing respecting their consulting
him as to stock transactions?
_A._ Most undoubtedly, or I should not have drawn the conclusions I did.
_Q._ For what was he to have a per centage?
_A._ For the ideas he had given to Lord Cochrane, enabling him to make a
profit in the stocks.
_Q._ Did he extend that to Mr. Cochrane Johnstone, or Lord Cochrane?
_A._ To both.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I am aware that your Lordship will not consider
this as evidence against Lord Cochrane, or Mr. Cochrane Johnstone.
_Lord Ellenborough._ No; it is admissible evidence, the effect of it is
another thing.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Best._
_Q._ You have been corresponding with my Lord Cochrane.
_A._ I have so.
_Q._ You are now a prisoner in the King's Bench, I believe?
_A._ No; I am not.
_Q._ You have told my Lord Cochrane?----
_Mr. Bolland._ Have you ever had any communication with Lord Cochrane
but in writing?
_A._ None individually.
_Mr. Bolland._ Then I object to any questions except as to letters.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ You are a gentleman whose appointment Government
have stopped?
_A._ It is not stopped.
_Q._ Suspended?
_A._ It is not suspended.
_Q._ You mean to state that upon your oath?
_A._ I state that I hold the situation of Secretary and Register to the
Court of Antigua and Montserrat.
_Q._ You have not been prevented from going out?
_A._ In consequence of being compelled to give my evidence either at
this court or some other court.
_Q._ And not on any other account?
_A._ Not that I know of.
_Q._ You know of no other reasons why Government have prevented your
going out, but that you may be kept here as a Witness?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ You mean to state that broadly?
_A._ Precisely.
_Q._ Is that your hand writing? (_shewing a letter to the Witness_)
_A._ It is.
_Q._ Just look at these; are these your hand writing? (_shewing other
letters to the Witness._)
_A._ That is not.
_Q._ That is Lord Cochrane's hand writing, is it not, you have got one
in your pocket that is a copy of one that Lord Cochrane wrote to you in
answer to one of your letters?
_A._ I will look at it. (_the Witness read the letter over._) This is
precisely the same as one I have in my pocket.
_Q._ You have got that letter about you?
_A._ I have.
_Q._ Have you not proposed to my Lord Cochrane to lend you money, and
have you not told his Lordship that if he would not----
_Mr. Bolland._ My Lord, he says he has had no communication but in
writing.
_A._ I have had no communication with Lord Cochrane but in writing.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Would you have given this evidence if you could
have obtained a loan of money from Lord Cochrane?
_A._ Most undoubtedly; I must have been compelled to do it upon oath if
brought forwards in a court of justice.
_Q._ I will not have a reasoning answer, but a direct answer, and that
answer I will have taken down. Would you have given this evidence here
if you could have obtained a loan of money from Lord Cochrane?
_A._ If my Lord Cochrane had not called me forwards, of course I should
not have given an evidence, but he has compelled me.
_Q._ That will not do, I will put the question again; I want an answer,
yes, or no, to this; would you have given this evidence if you could
have obtained a loan of money from Lord Cochrane?
_A._ I hardly consider that question as fair; if his Lordship says it is
I will answer it.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I rather think the terms of the question embrace
some communications; he says he has had no communications about a loan
in any way but in writing, and I think you cannot in that way travel
indirectly to the contents of a letter; if the letter says any thing
about a loan of money, you may give it in evidence.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Will your Lordship allow me to put it in this way.
I have no right to ask the contents of any letter but with humble
deference to your Lordship; I have a right to ask this man what passed
in his own mind, for it does not yet appear that he put it upon paper;
if the question had been what have you written to Lord Cochrane? that
would have been objectionable, but surely I have a right to ask him what
is passing in his own mind upon the subject, to know the motives from
which this gentleman, of whom I shall speak by and by, comes to speak.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Do you give your evidence from resentment in
consequence of having some loan refused to you?
_A._ None individually--none whatever.
_Mr. Bolland._ My Lord, I must object to my learned friend Mr. Serjeant
Best getting the effect of a correspondence which was in writing.
_Lord Ellenborough._ He does not refer to it, but one cannot but be
conscious after what has passed, that all that has ever passed about a
loan has been in writing, therefore it would be the most ingenuous
course to put it in.
_Serjeant Best._ I certainly mean to read this man's letters.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I asked him in the strongest manner possible, do
you now give your evidence in resentment for having a loan, or any other
benefit withheld from you? You may press that if you please.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I will put it in the way your Lordship suggests. Do
you not now give your evidence in consequence of your being angry with
Lord Cochrane for refusing to lend you money?
_A._ No. So help me God.
_Q._ Now take care. Do you know a gentlemen of the name of Palfreyman?
_A._ I have met him twice, I think, within this fortnight past.
_Q._ You have no resentment against Lord Cochrane whatever I understand
you?
_A._ None whatever.
_Q._ You have never so expressed yourself to Mr. Palfreyman?
_A._ I am persuaded I never have.
_Q._ You never have told Mr. Palfreyman then that you would be his ruin?
_A._ Never.
_Q._ Nothing like that?
_A._ Never.
_Q._ That you would assist the Stock Exchange?
_A._ Never.
_Q._ Nothing of the sort?
_A._ I have already answered you.
_Q._ That will not do. Where did you come from now?
_A._ I came from the Gloucester Coffee House.
_Q._ I should have thought you had been in a coffee house, it is after
dinner time I suppose. You are sure you never said any thing of the
kind?
_A._ I have repeated it three or four times.
_Q._ You know this gentleman very well, Mr. Palfreyman?
_A._ A very slight acquaintance.
_Q._ Now I ask you another thing--Did you ever disclose this
conversation with Mr. De Berenger till after Lord Cochrane refused you a
loan?
_Lord Ellenborough._ If any application you made for a loan was in
writing, you are not bound to answer that question.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ My question was as to the time of the disclosure to
the Stock Exchange, I will certainly read his letters; this does not
touch me, but my learned friends of Counsel for De Berenger had not seen
these letters. My question is, whether you ever disclosed the matter you
have stated to day against De Berenger till after you were refused a
loan by Lord Cochrane?
_Lord Ellenborough._ But if the proposition for loan was in writing, the
letter must explain itself.
_Mr. Scarlett._ If we are not allowed to examine this witness as to his
motives and his conduct as to these letters, I do not see how these
letters could ever be made evidence.
_Lord Ellenborough._ You cannot examine him as to his motives, without
producing the letters, that would be extracting the most unfair
testimony in the world; I know nothing about the man, I never saw his
face before to-day; but he, as a witness, has a right to the common
protection of the law of the land, and not to have garbled questions put
to him.
_Mr. Scarlett._ We do mean to read the letters.
_Lord Ellenborough._ And then you may call him back to ask him any
questions upon them; but I would not have him answer without the letters
being read.
_Mr. Brougham._ My learned friend merely referred to the letters as a
date, not to the substance of the letters.
_Lord Ellenborough._ But he has said that he never had any communication
with Lord Cochrane, but by letter, therefore the request for a loan, if
any one was made, must have been by writing, and if he is to be
questioned about that request in writing, he ought to have the terms of
that request in writing read before the jury, so as to give a pointed
answer to it.
_Mr. Brougham._ With great submission, my learned friend, did not ask
as to the contents of the correspondence, but in point of date and time
merely; he put this question, Was your information given to the Stock
Exchange previously or subsequently to that correspondence, whatever the
contents of that correspondence were?
_Lord Ellenborough._ I never heard that question put till this moment.
Previous to some supposed correspondence, without stating the nature of
that correspondence, was the information given by you to the Stock
Exchange?
_A._ No, it was given by Lord Cochrane in his publication of the
correspondence in the Morning Chronicle.
_Lord Ellenborough._ We cannot get on without the letters.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I have no objection to the letters being read now.
_Lord Ellenborough._ That would disturb the order of the proceedings.
_Cross examined by Mr. Richardson._
_Q._ The conversation with Mr. De Berenger was about the 14th of
February?
_A._ Yes it was.
_Q._ Have you not reason to know that about that time he had
expectations of getting some employment in America?
_A._ He mentioned it to me himself.
_Q._ To serve under Sir Alexander Cochrane who had a command?
_A._ To serve under Lord Cochrane as I understood.
_Q._ He expressed his anxious desire and wish to be so employed?
_A._ Particularly so.
_Q._ He expressed a hope that he might make himself useful to the cause,
by drilling the sharp shooters, and other things of that sort?
_A._ That was what he represented.
_Q._ Did you not know that he had had experience as a volunteer officer
in a particular department?
_A._ I had a very high opinion of him as being acquainted with that
science.
_Q._ He had been a Captain for a considerable number of years in the
Duke of Cumberland's Corps of Sharp Shooters?
_A._ Adjutant I understand.
_Q._ You considered him as a man of science and skill in that
department?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ Do you not know that he was making preparations at that time in
order to go to America if he should be successful in procuring the
appointment he was soliciting?
_A._ Not making preparations, those I know nothing of.
_Q._ That it was his anxious wish and desire to go you heard from him?
_A._ Yes.
_Re-examined by Mr. Bolland._
_Q._ Did the Stock Exchange apply to you, or did you go to them to give
information.
_A._ The Stock Exchange applied to me and sent me a subpoena.
_Q._ Was the application made to you after Lord Cochrane's publication,
or before?
_A._ After Lord Cochrane's publication. The information that I gave to
the two gentlemen, Captain Taylor and Lieutenant Wright was prior to
Lord Cochrane's affidavit, or its ever being mentioned in my hearing
that Mr. De Berenger was implicated in this business.
_The Honorable Alexander Murray sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Bolland._
_Q._ You are in His Majesty's service as an officer?
_A._ Not at present.
_Q._ I believe you have the misfortune at present to be in the King's
Bench.
_A._ I am.
_Q._ In the rules?
_A._ In the inside.
_Q._ Are you acquainted with Captain De Berenger, and how long have you
been so.
_A._ About a year and a half I have been.
_Q._ Who introduced you to Captain De Berenger?
_A._ Mr. Tahourdin, who was my solicitor, and likewise the solicitor of
Mr. De Berenger.
_Q._ In consequence of that introduction did a considerable intimacy
take place between you and the captain?
_A._ There did.
_Q._ Were you frequently together?
_A._ Very frequently; when I first went over to the rules of the Bench,
I lodged with Mr. De Berenger in the same house for about one month,
till I took a house of my own.
_Q._ Had you at any time any conversation with Captain De Berenger
previous to the 21st of February with respect to Lord Cochrane and Mr.
Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ Towards the end of January I think, or perhaps the beginning of
February.
_Q._ What was the substance of these conversations?
_A._ It happened one Sunday between one and two o'clock, Mr. Harrison
called upon me, and we were conversing about a pamphlet he was writing.
_Q._ That Mr. Harrison was writing?
_A._ Yes; it was relative to the trial between Mr. Basil Cochrane and
Mr. Harrison.
_Q._ That impressed the day upon your recollection?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did Captain De Berenger come in that day?
_A._ Yes; he came in during the conversation and joined in it.
_Q._ Did any thing pass from Captain De Berenger on that day respecting
Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord Cochrane?
_A._ I at that time knew he was employed by Mr. Cochrane Johnstone.
_Q._ From whom did you understand that?
_A._ From Mr. De Berenger himself, that he was employed by Mr. Cochrane
Johnstone in planning out a small piece of ground behind his house in
Alsop's Buildings.
_Q._ What passed at that time about Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ He mentioned that there was a transaction going on.
_Q._ Does the circumstance of the pamphlet bring back to your
recollection what Sunday it was?
_A._ I cannot state the day of the month, but it was towards the end of
January or the beginning of February.
_Q._ State what Mr. De Berenger then said?
_A._ He said that they had a plan in view----
_A._ Who had?
_A._ That De Berenger had, with Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord
Cochrane, that provided it succeeded, it would put many thousand pounds
in the pocket of Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord Cochrane.
_Q._ Upon hearing this, did either you or Mr. Harrison ask Captain De
Berenger what the plan was?
_A._ I did, and he declined answering it; I said, "is it the plan with
regard to Ranelagh which it was proposed to build in Alsop's Buildings,
on Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's land," and he said "no, it is not, it is a
far better plan."
_Q._ Did you collect from Mr. De Berenger's conversation with you,
whether there was any particular intimacy between him and Mr. Cochrane
Johnstone and Lord Cochrane?
_A._ I knew there was a very particular intimacy between him and Mr.
Cochrane Johnstone, but I did not understand it was with Lord Cochrane
at all; I understood he was a more recent acquaintance.
_Q._ From what did you collect that; what did Mr. De Berenger say to you
that induced you to believe he was intimate with Mr. Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ He was constantly with him; he was there almost every day.
_Q._ You say that his acquaintance with Lord Cochrane was recent?
_A._ I do.
_Q._ When you understood him to be acquainted with Lord Cochrane, did he
state any thing with regard to his visits to Lord Cochrane?
_A._ He did not.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._
_Q._ You have known Mr. De Berenger a great while?
_A._ Yes, I have.
_Q._ He is a man of very considerable science and attainment I am told?
_A._ Very much so.
_Q._ I believe you happen to know that he was at that time, or had been
about that time engaged in some plan of Mr. Johnstone's about building a
place called Vittoria, in consequence of the great victories?
_A._ It was to be called Ranelagh I understood, I never heard of the
name Vittoria.
_Q._ He had been engaged for a considerable time before in drawing a
plan?
_A._ He had, which I had seen.
_Q._ And that led him, as you understood, to be very much with Mr.
Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ It did.
_Q._ Alsop's Buildings is somewhere near Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's house?
_A._ Mr. Cochrane Johnstone has a house there, and this is the ground
immediately behind it, about an acre, which is in garden ground, and
which was to be converted to that use.
_Q._ Something upon the plan of the old Ranelagh?
_A._ Something upon an improved plan of Mr. De Berenger's.
_Q._ You have seen the plan you say, which Mr. De Berenger drew for Mr.
Cochrane Johnstone?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ How long ago is that?
_A._ I cannot exactly say how long ago it was.
_Q._ Was it before this conversation a good while?
_A._ Before this conversation; when I was in the habit of calling upon
him.
_Q._ About the close of the last year probably?
_A._ About that time, I cannot exactly say.
_Q._ Was it not a very beautiful plan that he had drawn for this
Ranelagh?
_A._ It was.
_Q._ It required, from the nature of it, a considerable deal of time and
labour?
_A._ It did certainly.
_Q._ Do you know whether Mr. De Berenger was very much employed in plans
of that kind for the Royal Family and others?
_A._ He was.
_Lord Ellenborough._ If you see any tendency to the advantage of your
client, I will not interrupt you, but at present this seems to have no
bearing.
_Mr. Park._ I assure your Lordship, and I know I shall have credit for
believing what I state, I would not at this hour of the night pursue it
if it was not important, but I feel it necessary when it is stated that
there has been a wonderful intimacy, from which, conspiracy is sought to
be inferred.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I will not ask you to go into your reasons, if you
only say you think it material.
_Mr. Park._ As far as you have seen Mr. De Berenger, for the length of
time you have described, do you not believe him to be a man of honor and
integrity?
_A._ I certainly do from every thing I have seen; I saw nothing but the
most perfect gentleman during the time I lodged under the same roof.
_William Carling sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Adolphus._
_Q._ Whose servant are you?
_A._ The Honorable Basil Cochrane's.
_Q._ Are you in his service still?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and my Lord Cochrane visit at your
master's house?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Have you ever seen them there in company with Captain De Berenger?
_A._ Yes; Baron De Berenger is the name I have given in.
_Q._ The gentleman who sits there now?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did he come there once, or oftener, within your memory?
_A._ Twice.
_Q._ Who brought him?
_A._ I do not know that any body brought him in particular, he came to
dine there as a visitor.
_Q._ With whom?
_A._ Not with any body in particular; invited by the Honorable Basil
Cochrane.
_Q._ Was that upon days when Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord Cochrane
were there?
_A._ Mr. Cochrane Johnstone and Lord Cochrane dined there once; Lord
Cochrane did not the second time?
_Q._ As far as you could observe, did Lord Cochrane and Mr. Cochrane
Johnstone appear to be acquainted with the Baron De Berenger, or to be
then first introduced to him?
_A._ They appeared to be acquainted with him.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Topping._
_Q._ Can you tell us what time this was?
_A._ In January the first time, and the next in February, but I cannot
say what day.
_Q._ You live with Mr. Basil Cochrane?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ He is related to Lord Cochrane?
_A._ Yes, he is uncle to Lord Cochrane.
_Q._ And Mr. Basil Cochrane having a dinner party, Baron De Berenger was
one of the party, and Lord Cochrane another?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ And Mr. Cochrane Johnstone another?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did the dinner party consist of any other?
_A._ Yes, the first time, Admiral Cochrane (Sir Alexander), his lady,
and some more ladies and gentlemen.
_Q._ Was that the day Lord Cochrane dined there?
_A._ Yes, it was.
_Q._ Then upon another occasion, Mr. Basil Cochrane having a diner
party, Mr. Cochrane Johnstone formed one of the party, and Baron De
Berenger another?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Was there an indiscriminate mixture of ladies and gentlemen again
then?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ And Lord Cochrane was not there?
_A._ He was not.
_Q._ You have been asked whether Baron De Berenger and Lord Cochrane and
Mr. Cochrane Johnstone appeared to be acquainted--did Baron De Berenger
appear to be acquainted with Admiral Cochrane?
_A._ I cannot say.
_Q._ You were merely a servant attending at table?
_A._ Yes.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson._
_Q._ From the conversation that passed, did you understand whether Baron
De Berenger was going to America to serve under Admiral Cochrane.
_A._ I did not.
_Mr. Barnard Broochooft sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Bolland._
_Q._ You are Deputy Marshal of the King's Bench?
_A._ I am clerk to the Marshal of the King's Bench.
_Q._ Do you know Baron De Berenger?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Was he, during the latter end of the last year, and the beginning
of the present, a prisoner in the King's Bench?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ How long had he been confined there?
_A._ I think from the latter end of the year 1812.
_Q._ Till what time?
_A._ I am not prepared to state the day but till within about six weeks.
_Q._ Have you the book of rules here?
_A._ I have not.
_Q._ Did you miss him at any time?
_A._ Yes some months.
_Mr. Park._ I waive the objection to your asking your questions, so far
as I am concerned for Mr. De Berenger.
_Mr. Bolland._ Who were the securities for Mr. De Berenger?
_A._ Mr. Cochrane, a bookseller, in Fleet-street, and Mr. Tahourdin, the
attorney.
_Q._ You made search for him and could not find him?
_A._ Yes.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Best._
_Q._ That Cochrane was not at all connected with the Dundonald family?
_A._ I asked the question, and I understood not.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._
_Q._ Mr. Cochrane is partner in the house of Mr. White, of Fleet-street?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ I believe you saw Mr. De Berenger on the morning of the 21st very
early, did not you?
_A._ No.
_Q._ Recollect yourself, because I understand you did see him that
morning?
_A._ I cannot recollect having seen Mr. De Berenger for a very great
length of time, and I think long previous to that?
_Q._ I have reason to put the question, or I should not to you, not
doubting the veracity of your answer; recollect whether you did not see
him near the King's Bench Prison, very early on that morning?
_A._ I have nothing by which I can charge my recollection.
_Q._ The security was given a considerable time ago for the rules?
_A._ A very considerable time ago, nearly two years ago I should think.
_Q._ It was not for a very large sum?
_A._ Under £400. I think.
_Q._ You will excuse my asking, but the security is generally nearly
commensurate with the debt?
_A._ They generally do take it for the amount as nearly as possible,
calculating the costs.
_Q._ More than the debt then?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Bolland._ Was Mr. Ralph Sandom a prisoner in the King's Bench
Prison?
_A._ Twice he has been a prisoner.
_Q._ Was he on the 21st of February?
_A._ I have not the books, and cannot state that.
_Mr. Joseph Wood sworn._
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Are you a Messenger of the Alien Office?
_A._ I am.
_Q._ Did you on the 3d or 4th of April leave London in order to
apprehend De Berenger?
_A._ I did on the 4th.
_Q._ Had you a warrant of the Secretary of State?
_A._ I had.
_Q._ How long had you had it in your possession?
_A._ Ever since the 17th of March.
_Q._ Where did you find him?
_A._ At Leith.
_Q._ On what day?
_A._ On the 8th of April.
_Q._ Did you find him in possession of any writing desk?
_A._ Of this one. (_producing a portable desk_).
_Q._ Did that writing desk contain papers and bank notes?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Before you parted with any of those papers or bank notes did you
mark them?
_A._ Yes I did.
_Q._ When did you mark them?
_A._ I marked them before the Grand Jury the day of the bill being
found.
_Q._ Have they been in your possession from the day you marked them?
_A._ They have from the hour I took Mr. De Berenger.
_Q._ Were there any pieces of coin in the writing desk also?
_A._ There were guineas and half guineas, and in the pocket book there
were two Napoleons. (_the witness opened the desk._)
_Q._ The bank notes are in parcels I believe?
_A._ Yes they are.
_Q._ Give me the packet with the 67.
_They were handed in._
_Mr. Gurney._ I believe it will be more clear if I do not open them now
till I have proved them?
_A._ Here are two packets, and a pocket book containing a fifty pound
note and four five pound notes, the Napoleons are in the pocket book.
_Q._ There is a memorandum book also and a paper of memorandums?
_A._ There are.
_The Witness delivered them in._
_Q._ There is a road book besides?
_A._ Yes there is.
_Mr. Park._ There are some papers of which I have heard no proof; there
is a paper, in which it is stated there is some pencil mark, I have
heard no proof of any pencil mark, or any writing; it is not evidence
because it is in his pocket-book because one has many things in a
pocket-book which are not in one's hand-writing.
_Mr. Gurney._ This is the writing.
_Mr. Park._ I shall not look at it; I do not know his hand-writing.
_Mr. Gurney._ Mr. Jones, I will trouble you to read the first article in
that memorandum-book.
_Mr. Park._ That cannot be done.
_Mr. Gurney._ It is found in his letter-case.
_Mr. Park._ I object till his hand-writing is proved; the finding a
manuscript in my possession, is not sufficient to warrant its being read
as evidence against me; your Lordship might confide some paper to me,
and it would be very hard to read that against me.
_Lord Ellenborough._ It is _prima facie_ evidence I think, subject to
any observations you make upon it.
_Mr. Park._ It is found in that thing, not in his pocket.
_Lord Ellenborough._ (_to Wood_) Was it under his lock?
_A._ It was in his possession when I took him.
_Mr. Park._ Am I to be answerable for all manner of things sent to me by
my friends?
_Lord Ellenborough._ I think a paper found under the lock and key of
the party, is _prima facie_, readable against him; it is subject to
observations. If you do not go further, the reading this as found in his
possession, is doing little.
_Mr. Gurney._ (_to Mr. Lavie_) Do you believe that to be Mr. De
Berenger's writing?
_A._ I have no doubt about it.
_Mr. Park._ Is it in pencil or ink?
_A._ In ink.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ That cannot be evidence against the Cochranes.
_Lord Ellenborough._ No, if it was transmitted by him in writing to the
others, it would be evidence against them; but it purports to be only a
memorandum of his own.
_Mr. Gurney._ Certainly not, my Lord.
_The Extract was read as follows_:
"To C. I. by March 1st 1814, £350--£4 to 5000--assign one
share of patent and £1000 worth shares of Jn. De Beaufain at
Messrs. H. to their care.--Believe from my informant £18,000
instead of £4800--suspicious that Mr. B. does not account
correctly to him as well as me. Determined not to be duped. No
restrictions as to secresy--requesting early answer."
_Mr. Gurney._ That is all I wish to read.
_Mr. Park._ I never heard a word of this.
_Mr. Gurney._ Very likely not.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson._
_Q._ Did you carry this box of papers before the Grand Jury?
_A._ Yes I did, the writing desk.
_Q._ By whose orders was that done?
_A._ By orders of the Secretary of State, of Mr. Beckett; I was
subpoenaed to bring it before the Grand Jury, and I carried the
subpoena to take directions from Mr. Beckett the Under Secretary of
State.
_Q._ You received Mr. Beckett's orders to do it?
_A._ With the subpoena I told Mr. Beckett I had received an order to
take it before the Grand Jury, and I did so.
_Mr. Park._ There are no subpoenas for the Grand Jury.
_Mr. Gurney._ There are indeed, Crown Office subpoenas.
_Mr. Richardson._ By whose order were the seals put on at Edinburgh
taken off?
_A._ By order of Mr. Beckett.
_Q._ That was before you went before the Grand Jury?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Has the box remained in your possession ever since you took it at
Edinburgh?
_A._ Yes, ever since when I went a journey to Holland; in my absence Mr.
Tahourdin wished to see it, and Mr. Musgrave opened it for him.
_Q._ Except the time you took a journey to Holland it has been in your
possession?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Had the seals been opened before that time, before you went to
Holland?
_A._ They had.
_Q._ In whose possession was it during the time of your absence?
_A._ Mr. Musgrave's, and he delivered it up to me again.
_Q._ Who is Mr. Musgrave?
_A._ One of the clerks in the Office.
_Q._ How long were you absent?
_A._ A week or ten days.
_Q._ Has it been in your possession ever since your return?
_A._ Yes, it has.
_Q._ Were you present all the time it was before the Grand Jury?
_A._ I was; I left it on the Grand Jury table when I went out, but I
locked it, and I had the key.
_Q._ With all its contents locked up in it?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Were you present when Mr. Wakefield of the Stock Exchange, and Mr.
Lavie called, I think on the very day that Mr. De Berenger arrived in
London?
_A._ I was.
_Q._ Was that at your house?
_A._ No it was not.
_Q._ Where was it?
_A._ At the Parliament Street Coffee House.
_Q._ That was the place you carried him to first?
_A._ No, first to the Secretary of State's Office, and afterwards to the
Parliament Street Coffee House.
_Q._ The day of your arrival those Gentlemen came there?
_A._ They were there.
_Q._ Mr. Wakefield and some other Gentleman?
_A._ Mr. Wakefield and another Gentleman.
_Q._ Who was the other Gentleman?
_A._ I do not exactly recollect.
_Q._ Was it not stated to him by those Gentlemen that they did not wish
to press him if he would furnish information against Lord Cochrane, Mr.
Cochrane Johnstone, and Mr. Butt?
_A._ I do not recollect hearing those names mentioned.
_Q._ Against the other Gentlemen?
_A._ No, I do not recollect hearing that.
_Q._ Did they not state that what they wanted was information from him
to fix the guilt upon others?
_A._ Not to my recollection.
_Q._ Or any thing to that effect?
_A._ I do not recollect any thing of the kind, I did not exactly listen
to the conversation.
_Q._ He was in your custody, and you in the room all the time?
_A._ Not exactly; I was there the greatest part of the time.
_Q._ Be so kind as to recollect yourself, it was only in the month of
April last that this happened, many circumstances have called this to
your recollection since; what was the conversation that passed; what did
they state to him as to his furnishing information?
_A._ There were some gentlemen wanted to speak to Mr. De Berenger; Mr.
Wakefield went very close to Mr. De Berenger, and I declare to you upon
my oath I do not recollect any particular words.
_Q._ The substance is all I want?
_A._ I really do not recollect the substance.
_Q._ Was any thing said as to his furnishing information: recollect,
that you are to tell the whole truth upon your oath, as far as you
recollect it; what was said upon that subject, as far as you can
recollect?
_A._ Mr. Wakefield did say something to him, but I really do not
recollect.
_Q._ Was it to that effect?
_A._ Mr. Wakefield put some questions to Mr. De Berenger respecting this
business, the Stock Exchange business; but the exact conversation, which
I did not listen to, I cannot say.
_Q._ Respecting the other persons supposed to be concerned, was not that
the effect of it?
_A._ Something to that effect I think, but I did not listen to the
conversation.
_Lord Ellenborough._ What is the effect? only something about other
persons, that is no effect.
_Mr. Richardson._ What was the effect of it?
_A._ Mr. Wakefield put some questions respecting the Stock Exchange, I
did not attend exactly to what it was.
_Lord Ellenborough._ You had better call Mr. Wakefield, who put the
questions, than he who did not hear what passed.
_Mr. Park._ We cannot call Mr. Wakefield; he is one of the Prosecutors,
he is one of the Stock Exchange.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I know nothing about Mr. Wakefield; as long as the
question is sperate I am willing to hear it put, but it has been put ten
times and the same answer returned.
_Mr. Richardson._ Did you hear names mentioned?
_A._ I did not.
_Q._ Did you hear them tell him, that their wish was that he should
furnish information, to bring home the guilt to others?
_A._ I remember the word information, and that is all I recollect.
_Q._ That they wanted information?
_A._ That is all I recollect.
_Q._ Before this conversation took place, did not Mr. De Berenger say
that he wished to be attended by Counsel, if they wished to converse
with him?
_A._ Mr. De Berenger did answer something, but I cannot state what it
was; I did not attend to the conversation.
_Q._ Before these Gentlemen were introduced by you to him, did he not
say that he was exhausted by his journey, and unwilling to see them,
unless he could have some person present?
_A._ He did; he said he was very unwell, and exhausted by his journey.
_Q._ And desired not to see them, unless some person was present with
them?
_A._ Yes, I think he did say something of that kind, that he was very
faint with his journey.
_Q._ But nevertheless you introduced them to him that evening?
_A._ They were in the room with him, they came into the room with him;
that was at the time that Mr. Wakefield was in the room, I believe.
_Mr. Park._ That he was very unwell, and would not answer unless some
person was with him?
_Lord Ellenborough._ Did he say that he was unwilling to answer, without
having some friend present?
_A._ I do not recollect that; but he said he was very unwell, and
exhausted with the journey.
_Mr. Park._ Nevertheless a long conversation did take place, did it?
_A._ I believe Mr. Wakefield was there about ten minutes or a quarter of
an hour, not more than that.
_Re-examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Did you put your marks upon these things before you went to
Holland?
_A._ Yes, I did.
_Mr. Joseph Fearn called again;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Be so good as to look at that check dated the 10th of February 1814
[_shewing it to the Witness_] did you give that check to Mr. Butt?
_A._ I did on the day of its date, the 10th of February.
_Mr. Joseph Brumfield sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Are you the clerk that paid the check on the 10th of February?
_A._ I am not.
_Q._ Is Mr. Evans here?
_A._ I believe not; I have not seen him.
_Mr. William Smallbone called again;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ On the 19th of February 1814, did you draw that check [_shewing it
to the Witness_]?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ For whom?
_A._ For Lord Cochrane.
_Q._ Did you give it to Lord Cochrane?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ For Lord Cochrane?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ To pay for gains upon the stock account?
_A._ Not gains exactly, but upon the stock account.
_Q._ To whom personally did you give it?
_A._ To Lord Cochrane.
_Cross examined by Mr. Serjeant Best._
_Q._ Was Mr. Butt in the office at the time?
_A._ Yes, I think he was.
_Q._ Do you recollect whether you gave it into the hands of Lord
Cochrane or Mr. Butt?
_A._ I think into the hand of Lord Cochrane; I feel satisfied in my mind
that I gave it to Lord Cochrane and not to Mr. Butt.
_Q._ If you gave it to Lord Cochrane, did you see Lord Cochrane hand it
over to Mr. Butt?
_A._ No, I cannot say that I did.
_Q._ Have you no recollection one way or the other?
_A._ No.
_Q._ Nor is your recollection very distinct whether you gave it to one
or the other?
_A._ I have no reason to think I gave it to Mr. Butt.
_Q._ Mr. Butt frequently acted for Lord Cochrane?
_A._ Not with me.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Do you believe you gave it to Lord Cochrane?
_A._ I do, but I am not certain whether I laid it before him upon the
table, or gave it into his hand.
_Lord Ellenborough._ You presented it to him, and gave it into his
reach, so that he might take it?
_A._ Yes.
_A Juryman._ You charged him with it in account?
_A._ Yes, I did.
[_The check on Messrs. Jones, Loyd & Company, dated the 10th of February
1814, for the sum of_ £.470. 19_s._ 4_d._ _was read._]
_Edward Wharmby sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Are you clerk to Jones, Loyd & Company?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Look at that check [_handing it to the Witness_] did you pay that
check?
_A._ Yes, I did.
_Q._ On what day?
_A._ On the 19th of February.
_Q._ In what Bank notes did you pay it?
_A._ In one of £.200.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ From what are you speaking.
_A._ I have a copy of the notes.
_Q._ Is the book here?
_A._ No.
_Mr. Gurney._ You were directed to bring the books with you,--you must
go and fetch them.
_Benjamin Lance sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ On the 26th of February did you give that check to Mr. Butt?
_A._ Yes, I did. [_The check was handed in._]
_Mr. Gurney._ Perhaps, my Lord, I had better wait till the witness
brings the books; I am extremely sorry for the loss of time?
_Lord Ellenborough._ It will be more clear.
_Mr. Gurney._ I have a little more evidence to give under this head, if
your Lordship will allow me to give that now, the letter which I opened,
offering Mr. M'Rae's discovery.
_Mr. Joseph Fearn called again;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Look at that letter, [_shewing a letter to the witness_,] do you
believe that to be Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's hand-writing?
_A._ I do.
_Q._ Do you believe that also to be Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's
hand-writing?
_A._ Yes, I believe that also to be the same that is dated the 18th of
April.
[_The letters were delivered in, and read as follow:_]
"To the Chairman of the Committee,
"Stock Exchange, No. 18, Great Cumberland-street, 12th April 1814.
"Sir,
"I have this moment received a letter, of which the enclosed
is a copy, and lose no time in transmitting it to you for the
information of the gentlemen composing the Stock Exchange
Committee; from the bearer of the letter, I am given to
understand, that Mr. M'Rae, is willing to disclose the names
of the Principals concerned in the late hoax, on being paid
the sum of £.10,000. to be deposited in some banker's hands,
in the names of two persons, to be nominated by himself, and
to be paid to him on the conviction of the offenders.
I am happy to say, that there seems now a reasonable prospect
of discovering the authors of the late hoax, and I cannot
evince my anxious wish to promote such discovery, more than by
assuring you that I am ready to contribute liberally towards
the above sum of 10,000_l._ and I rest assured, that you will
eagerly avail yourselves of this opportunity, to effect the
proposed discovery (an object you profess to have so much at
heart) by concurring with me in such contribution.
I have the honour to be, Sir,
Your obedient humble servant,
(Signed) _A. Cochrane Johnstone_."
[_The inclosure was read as follows:_]
"April 12th.
"Sir,
"I authorize the bearer of this note, to state to you that I
am prepared to lay before the Public, the names of the persons
who planned and carried into effect the late hoax, practised
at the Stock Exchange the 21st of February, provided you
accede to the terms which my friend will lay before you.
I am, Sir,
Your obedient Servant,
_A. M'Rae_."
To the honourable,
Cochrane Johnstone.
"No. 18, Great Cumberland-street,
18th April 1814.
"Sir,
"I have to request, that you will be so good as to inform me
what are the intentions of the Stock Exchange, on the subject
of the letter which I addressed to you relative to the
proposal of Mr. M'Rae.
Lord Cochrane, Mr. Butt, and myself, are willing to subscribe
1,000_l._ each, in aid of the 10,000_l._ required by Mr.
M'Rae; the bearer waits your answer, which, to prevent any
mistake, I hope you will find time to commit to writing.
I am, Sir,
Your obedient servant,
_A. Cochrane Johnstone_."
To Mr. Charles Laurence,
Chairman of the Committee
of the Stock Exchange.
[_Mr. Gurney to Mr. Fearn._]
_Q._ Look at the address of that letter [_shewing a letter to the
witness_] is that address Mr. Cochrane Johnstone's hand-writing?
_A._ I believe it to be so.
[_The letter was read as follows._]
"To the Committee of the Stock Exchange.
No. 18, Great Cumberland-street,
14 March 1814.
As the report of the Stock Exchange Committee conveys an idea
to the public, that they estimated delinquency by the enormous
profits which accrued to Lord Cochrane, Mr. Butt, and myself,
on the sale of Stock upon the 21st day of February, and as the
public prints have estimated the gains, some at 100,000_l._
others at 75,000_l._ and none under 30,000_l._ I pledge myself
to prove that the whole profits are as follow; viz.
Lord Cochrane £.1,700.
Mr. Butt 1,300.
Mr. Cochrane Johnstone 3,500.
If the Committee had acted impartially, they would have
published a statement of all the purchases and sales effected
by every broker on that day, with the names of the parties,
that the Public might have drawn their conclusions. To obviate
this omission on the part of the Committee, I am preparing for
the press a correct statement of all sums bought for the
parties before-mentioned, together with the names of those
from whom the Stock was procured, and to whom sold; whereby it
will be seen, who were the purchasers at an early hour on the
21st day of February.
_A. Cochrane Johnstone._"
Charles Laurence, Esq.
Chairman of the Committee of the Stock Exchange.
_Mr. Gurney._ I apply that to the memorandum I before read, by which it
appears that he states his own gains and Mr. Butt's to be £.4,800.
subtracting Lord Cochrane's; the whole is £.6,500.
_Edward Wharmby called again;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ On what day in February did you pay that check? [_shewing it to the
witness._]
_A._ The 19th of February.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Is that entry in the book your own hand-writing?
_A._ It is.
_Mr. Gurney._ In what Bank notes did you pay it?
_A._ In one of two hundred pounds, No. 634.
_Q._ What other notes?
_A._ Two, of one hundred pounds each.
_Q._ What are the numbers?
_A._ 18,468 is one of them, and the other 16,601.
_Q._ Was there a £.50.?
_A._ Yes, No. 7,375.
_Mr. Gurney._ It is not necessary to mention the other, because I do not
trace it.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Serjeant Best._
_Q._ You do not know to whom you paid that?
_A._ No, I do not.
_Lord Ellenborough._ You paid it to the bearer of that check for £.470,
in discharge of that check?
_A._ Yes, I did.
_Mr. Thomas Parker sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ You are a coal-merchant?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Does Lord Cochrane deal with you?
_A._ He did.
_Q._ Did you receive from him in payment a bank note of fifty pounds.
_A._ To the best of my recollection I did.
_Q._ On what day?
_A._ I do not exactly know the day; but some time in the beginning of
March I think, or probably in the end of February.
_A Bank Clerk produced the £.50. note No. 7,375._
_Q._ Did Lord Cochrane make that payment to you in that bank note?
_A._ Yes, I believe he did.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ Is that your own memorandum?
_A._ Yes; I write on the back of the notes, and that is my hand-writing.
_Benjamin Lance called again;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ On the 24th of February, did you go to the Bank to exchange any
bank notes for smaller notes?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ By whose desire did you go?
_A._ Mr. Butt's.
_Q._ Are those the two notes you received from him to exchange?
[_shewing the witness the two notes for £.100. each, produced by the
bank clerk._]
_A._ They are.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Have you seen those £.100. notes, which you carried
to the Bank to exchange for smaller notes?
_A._ I have this moment.
_Mr. Gurney._ What did you receive in exchange for them?
_A._ I received two hundred notes for one pound each.
_Q._ What did you do with those notes?
_A._ I gave them to Mr. Butt.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Scarlett._
_Q._ Have you any connexion with Mr. Smallbone.
_A._ Yes, I am with Mr. Smallbone.
_Q._ Do you remember at any time, on the 15th of February, Mr. Butt
lending Lord Cochrane two hundred pounds, in order to make up a sum that
he had to pay?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ On the 15th of February?
_A._ Yes, it might be on the 15th of February.
_Q._ Do you remember going with that check [_shewing it to the witness_]
which was afterwards given by Mr. Smallbone, to get the money?
_A._ Yes, that check for £.470. 19_s._ 4_d._
_Q._ That bears date the 19th of February?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ You were the person who took that to the banker's, to get the money
for it?
_A._ Exactly so.
_Q._ You say you know Mr. Butt did lend Lord Cochrane two hundred
pounds?
_A._ So I understood; I did not see him lend it.
_Mr. Gurney._ He does not know that it was lent?
_Mr. Scarlett._ How do you know that it was lent?
_A._ Only by Mr. Butt saying so.
_Lord Ellenborough._ At what time?
_A._ The 15th of February.
_Lord Ellenborough._ This check is dated the 19th?
_Mr. Scarlett._ You received in payment for that check, two notes of
£.100. each?
_A._ Yes, I did.
_Q._ What did you do with those two notes of 100_l._ each?
_A._ I gave them to Lord Cochrane.
_Q._ That was on the 19th of February?
_A._ Yes, it was.
_Q._ Were you present when Lord Cochrane paid those notes back to Mr.
Butt?
_A._ I was not.
_Q._ Though you were not present when those notes were given by him to
Mr. Butt, do you know that those notes were in Mr. Butt's hands
afterwards?
_A._ I know of receiving them from him.
_Q._ Though you paid them to Lord Cochrane upon the 19th, did you not
afterwards receive them from Mr. Butt?
_A._ I received the two £.100. notes I have now looked at from Mr. Butt.
_Q._ It was by Mr. Butt's desire you changed them for small notes at the
Bank?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ That you say was the 24th of February?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ For Mr. Butt?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Was Lord Cochrane in the city at that time?
_A._ Not that I know of.
_Q._ Do you know on the 15th of February of any loan made by Mr.
Smallbone to Lord Cochrane?
_A._ Yes, I do.
_Mr. Gurney._ Do you know that of your own knowledge, or how do you know
that?
_A._ I know that of my own knowledge.
_Mr. Scarlett._ I believe you know that my Lord had a certain sum to
make up to pay what he owed at that time?
_A._ He had.
_Q._ How much was that amount?
_A._ I am not prepared to tell you the exact amount.
_Q._ Was it between six and seven hundred pounds?
_A._ More than that.
_Q._ Do not you know that he was without the money in the City, to make
it up at that time?
_A._ He was.
_Q._ How much did he borrow of Mr. Smallbone?
_A._ I cannot say exactly.
_Q._ Was it £.450.?
_A._ £.450. I think, was advanced by me as clerk to Mr. Smallbone.
_Lord Ellenborough._. In all £.450.
_A._ In all £.450.
_Q._ £.250. in these bank notes?
_A._ No, £.450. besides these bank notes.
_Lord Ellenborough._ The £.450. is to be added to these bank notes?
_Mr. Scarlett._ The witness was not present when Mr. Butt lent the
£.200. I was about to shew, that besides the £.450. that Mr. Smallbone
lent, Lord Cochrane wanted £.200. more, and that he went out to get it.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Did you see the £.200. lent to Lord Cochrane?
_A._ No.
_Q._ How do you know it was lent?
_A._ Because I was told so by Lord Cochrane.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Then it comes to nothing?
_Mr. Scarlett._ He knows the fact that he wanted the £.200. You advanced
£.450. yourself?
_A._ Yes, I did.
_Lord Ellenborough._ In gold or bank notes?
_A._ In bank notes.
_Q._ In what description of bank notes?
_A._ The money was lent in fact by Mr. Smallbone, and he made up the
difference; it is not usual to pay in bank notes, and we made it up in
checks; his Lordship had left his money at the west end of the town.
_Mr. Scarlett._ You advanced his Lordship £.450.?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Was that all that he wanted, or did he want more?
_A._ No, he wanted £.200. more.
_Lord Ellenborough._ This advance must all be in paper?
_Mr. Scarlett._ Yes, my Lord, it is not material to my purpose to shew
how Mr. Butt made this advance to him.
_Lord Ellenborough._ If it was a loan and you rely upon it as such, you
must shew in what it was?
_A._ The £.450. was in a check.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Then that check must be shewn.
_Mr. Scarlett._ Mr. Butt was not present, was he?
_A._ Not that I know of.
_Q._ At what time Lord Cochrane gave these two £.100. notes to Mr. Butt
you do not know, do you?
_A._ No.
_Q._ But it was not by Lord Cochrane's desire you took them to the Bank.
_A._ No; by Mr. Butt's.
_Mr. John Bilson sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Look at these two £.100. notes; on the 24th of February; were those
two notes of £.100. each brought to the Bank to be exchanged for one
pound notes?
_A._ They were entered for payment in the Bank on that day.
_Q._ Have you there the book in which your own entries are made, or
those which are made by Mr. Northover?
_A._ I have the book in which is my own hand-writing.
_Q._ What notes did you pay this in?
_A._ One pound notes.
_Q._ You make the entries, and the other clerk gives over the notes?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Have you all the numbers there?
_A._ Yes, I have.
_Mr. Gurney._ I am sorry to trouble your Lordship with having these
numbers read; they do not happen to be in sequence. Will you go over
those numbers?
_A._ 27th August, No. 1,048.
_Lord Ellenborough._ You had better see what you apply your proof to,
otherwise he must go through the list.
_Mr. Gurney._ I am told these clerks have examined all these notes. You
have looked over all these notes found in Mr. De Berenger's trunk, have
you not?
_A._ I have not looked over them to-day; we looked over them before the
Grand Jury.
_Q._ Look over that parcel, and tell me whether you paid all that parcel
[_handing a parcel of bank notes to the witness_.]
[_The Witness and Mr. Thomas Northover examined the notes._]
_A._ Yes; those were paid.
_Q._ There are forty-nine in number?
_A._ Yes.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Were all those forty-nine part of the two hundred
pounds that were given in exchange for the two £.100. notes?
_A._ They were.
_A Juryman._ What were the numbers of the two £.100. notes?
_A._ No. 16,601 and No. 18,468.
_Mr. Hilary Miller sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ You are a clerk in the Bank?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Have you forty-seven one pound notes that have come into the bank?
_A._ I have fifty-seven [_the witness produces them_.]
_Mr. Gurney._ (_to Bilson and Northover_) Look and see whether those
fifty-seven are also part of the same payment?
_Miller._ I believe that part of those notes were received at another
period.
_Mr. Northover._ They do not appear to arise from this transaction.
_Mr. Gurney._ I will state to your Lordship the effect of this; perhaps
it is hardly worth pursuing; they came into the bank from various
quarters, and Mr. De Berenger's name is upon them, but not in his
hand-writing.
_Mr. Bilson._ Here are some of them in this account.
_Lord Ellenborough._ They do not appear to be evidence.
_Mr. Gurney._ Then I will not pursue that.
_Thomas Christmas sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Were you clerk to Mr. Fearn, in February last?
_A._ I was.
_Q._ Do you recollect being sent on the 24th of February to change a
note for two hundred pounds?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ By whom were you sent?
_A._ By Mr. Fearn.
_Q._ Where did you go to change that note?
_A._ To Messrs. Bond & Pattesall.
_Q._ Look at that bank note (No. 634), is that the bank note which you
changed?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ What did you receive in exchange for it?
_A._ Two notes of £.100. each.
_Q._ Did you take those two notes of £.100. each to the bank?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ For what did you change them there?
_A._ Two hundred notes of one pound each.
_Q._ What did you do with those two hundred notes of one pound each?
_A._ I gave them to Mr. Fearn.
_Q._ In whose presence?
_A._ Two or three gentlemen in his office.
_Q._ Who were those gentlemen?
_A._ I do not recollect.
_Q._ Were Mr. Butt or Mr. Cochrane Johnstone there then?
_A._ No, they were neither of them there then.
_Q._ Did you see what Mr. Fearn did with those notes?
_A._ No, I did not.
_Q._ Did you put your name upon the two £.100. notes before you gave
them into the bank?
_A._ I put Mr. Fearn's name upon them.
[_Mr. Miller produced two £.100. notes._]
_Q._ Are those the two?
_A._ Yes they are.
_Q._ What are their numbers?
_A._ 19,482 and 19,592.
_Mr. Joseph Fearn called again;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ On the 24th of February did you receive from Christmas two hundred
notes of one pound each?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ To whom did you give those notes?
_A._ To Mr. Butt.
_Q._ Did you see what Mr. Butt did with them?
_A._ He gave them to Mr. Cochrane Johnstone.
_Mr. John Bilson and Mr. Thomas Northover called again._
_Mr. Gurney._ Did you on the 24th of February pay a £.100. Bank note No.
19,482?
_Mr. Bilson._ We paid to Fearn on that day two hundred one pound notes
for two notes of £.100. each.
_Q._ Are those the two notes for which you paid them, [_shewing them to
the Witness_]?
_A._ Those are the two notes.
_A Juryman._ What are the numbers?
_A._ 19,482, the 4th of February 1814, and 19,592 of the same date.
_Mr. Gurney._ I am now going to put into the hands of the witnesses
sixty-seven notes found in Mr. De Berenger's writing desk, for him to
see whether they are not part of those he paid for those two £.100.
notes?
[_The Witnesses compared them._]
_Mr. Bilson._ These are part of the notes we paid to Fearn on the 24th
of February.
_Lord Ellenborough._ The whole sixty-seven?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Joseph Fearn;_
_Cross-examined by Mr. Brougham._
_Q._ When Christmas brought back these two hundred one pound notes from
the bank, you say they were given to Mr. Butt?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ And you say Mr. Butt afterwards gave them to Mr. Cochrane
Johnstone?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did you see him give them?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Did you see Mr. Butt give him the other two hundred one pound notes
he got from Lance?
_A._ No.
_Q._ You were not present then?
_A._ No, I was not.
_Mr. Adolphus._ We wish Mr. Wood now to produce out of the desk a watch,
which he found in the possession of Mr. De Berenger.
[_The Witness produced two watches._]
_Q._ Were they both in the box when you found it?
_A._ They were.
_Mr. Bishop Bramley sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Adolphus._
_Q._ What are you?
_A._ A watchmaker and silversmith.
_Q._ Do you live at Hull?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Look at those watches that lie there; did you sell those watches?
_A._ No, neither of those.
_Q._ Did you sell a watch to the gentleman who sits there?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ For how much money?
_A._ Twenty-nine guineas and a half, £30. 19_s._ 6_d._
_Q._ When was that?
_A._ The 4th of March.
_Q._ What name did he pass by?
_A._ We did not hear any name.
_Q._ How did he pay you?
_A._ In one pound Bank of England notes.
_Q._ Did you write any name upon them?
_A._ I put my own initials upon them.
_Q._ So that you will know them again if they are produced?
_A._ Yes.
[_Mr. Miller produced some bank notes._]
_Mr. Adolphus (to Bramley.)_ Look at those, and see whether those are
part of what you received?
_A._ All these notes we took of the gentleman we sold the watch to, on
the 4th of March.
_Q._ And that is the gentleman who sits there? (_pointing to De
Berenger._)
_A._ Yes.
_Lord Ellenborough._ What mark have you put upon them to know them
again?
_A._ My own initials and the dates; it is written at the top end of the
note.
_Q._ How are you enabled to say that those seven notes are what you
received from the person who bought that watch?
_A._ We took no other Bank of England notes on that day.
_Q._ You marked them at the time you received them?
_A._ Yes, I received twenty in the forenoon, and the other eleven in the
afternoon, and I marked them and paid them away the same afternoon.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._
_Q._ I understand you to say neither of those watches found in the
possession of Mr. De Berenger is the watch you sold?
_A._ Neither of them.
_Q._ You wrote upon all the notes?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ Those are the only seven you have seen since?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Gurney._ You paid them all away?
_A._ We did.
_John Bilson and Thomas Northover called again._
_Mr. Gurney._ Have the goodness to look over your book, and see whether
those seven were part of the two hundred that were paid to Fearn?
[_The Witnesses examined them._]
_Mr. Bilson._ Those seven notes were part of the property paid to Fearn
on the 24th of February.
_Benjamin Lance called again;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ On the 25th of February, did you give Mr. Butt a check on Prescott
& Company, for £.98. 2_s._ 6_d._?
_A._ On the 26th of February I did.
_Q._ Is that the check? [_shewing it to the witness._]
_A._ That is the check.
_John Isherwood sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Are you clerk to Prescott & Company?
_A._ I am.
_Q._ Look at that check, did you pay that?
_A._ I did.
_Q._ On what day?
_A._ The date of it the 26th of February, I think.
_Mr. Park._ That is an entry in your own hand-writing.
_A._ It is.
_Mr. Gurney._ Did you pay a 50_l._ note?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ What number?
_A._ No. 13,396.
_Q._ Did you pay also a forty pound note?
_A._ Yes, No. 6,268.
_Q._ Look at that, is that the £.40. note?
_A._ Yes, that is the note.
_Mr. Gurney._ Mr. Miller, will you produce the £.50. note? [_Mr. Miller
produced it, and it was shewn to the Witness._]
_A._ This is the note.
_Mr. John Seeks sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Look at that cancelled bank note for £.50. did you receive that
bank note in payment from any person?
_A._ I gave change for it.
_Q._ On what day?
_A._ I cannot exactly recollect.
_Q._ About when; have you any minute on the back of it?
_A._ Here are some letters here that I know it by.
_Q._ To whom did you give change for it?
_A._ Mr. De Berenger's servant, Smith.
_Q._ The day you cannot exactly fix?
_A._ I cannot.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I submit to your Lordship, that is no evidence,
until they call Smith.
_Mr. Gurney._ On referring to Mr. De Berenger's memorandum book, I find
"W. S. £.50." which I consider as connecting itself with this.
_Mr. Park._ That book is not proved.
_Mr. Gurney._ It is proved by being found in the trunk.
_Mr. Park._ I object to that book being read; that is not the book which
was before proved; as to that, Mr. Lavie gave some evidence of the
hand-writing before the entry was read.
_Mr. Germain Lavie called again;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Do you believe that to be the hand-writing of Mr. De Berenger?
_A._ Yes I do, most certainly.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Park._
_Q._ I observe this is pencil writing you have been speaking to; did you
ever see any writing of this person in pencil before?
_A._ No, never.
_Q._ There is no difference in a man's writing with a pencil and with a
pen?
_A._ I conceive that to be written by Mr. De Berenger.
_Q._ It is exactly like the character of that letter which has been
given in evidence upon your testimony?
_A._ Yes, it is the same sort of writing.
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I submit to your Lordship, still I am not removed
from my objection. There is first a check of £.98. 2_s._ 6_d._; then an
attempt is made to trace £.50. of that into the hands of Mr. De
Berenger; the way in which that is attempted is, that a person says he
gave change for that note of £.50.;--beyond that, they have produced a
pencil memorandum, proved to be in the writing of Mr. De Berenger, at
least there is some evidence of that; that pencil memorandum is merely
this, not that a particular bank note; not that the note which came into
the hand of the witness, and for which he gave change, but that a bank
note of £.50. was paid to W. S. It does not appear that it was that bank
note, and this, I submit, is no evidence in a criminal case.
_Mr. Gurney._ I submit to your Lordship it is evidence, _valeat
quantum_, it does not prove that Smith received that bank note from De
Berenger, but that it came from De Berenger's servant; I shall give no
other evidence to bring it home to De Berenger, and I submit that it is
admissible evidence, as that which is proved to come so near as the
child, the wife, or the servant.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I think it is not evidence; it does not get the
length of William Smith; but even if it were to be taken to refer to
William Smith, it does not connect it with this bank note, or any other
means of payment. I cannot translate "W. S." into "William Smith my
servant," and "£.50." into "this £.50. bank note." You do not call
William Smith.
_Mr. Gurney._ No, certainly not, my Lord,--I shall leave that to my
learned friends.
_Mr. Benjamin Bray sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Where do you live?
_A._ At Sunderland.
_Q._ Will you look at this £.40. note, [_shewing the witness the note
just produced_,] did you receive that £.40. note from any one?
_A._ From the waiter of the Bridge Inn at Sunderland.
_Q._ Did you see Mr. De Berenger about the time of the receipt of it?
_A._ I had seen him often prior to that.
_Q._ At Sunderland?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ A waiter brought it to you?
_A._ Yes, with Major Burne's compliments.
_Q._ He brought you some message with it?
_A._ Yes, I gave him six £.5. notes for it, and ten £.1. notes.
_Q._ Bank of England notes?
_A._ No, of the Durham Bank.
_Q._ Did any thing pass between you and Mr. De Berenger afterwards, on
the subject of that note?
_A._ The waiter returned in a few minutes afterwards.
_Q._ Did any thing pass afterwards between you and Mr. De Berenger, on
the subject of that note?
_A._ Yes, he came shortly afterwards to take his leave of me.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Where did he come to?
_A._ To my house.
_Q._ What shop do you keep?
_A._ I am a druggist and agent to the Durham bank.
_Mr. Gurney._ How long had Mr. De Berenger been at Sunderland?
_A._ I had known him there from the 7th to the 21st of March. I
apologized for not being able to send more Bank of England paper in
exchange for the Durham bank notes; the waiter having been to request
that I would send him Bank of England paper, I gave him a message to Mr.
De Berenger.
_Q._ You made him an apology for not having sent him more bank paper in
exchange?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ In exchange for the note you had at first received; for that note?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ What did Mr. De Berenger say, on your making the apology?
_A._ I apologized for not having sent him more Bank of England paper,
and he acknowledged having received the whole of the notes I had sent
him from the waiter.
_Q._ By what name did Mr. De Berenger go there.
_A._ Major Burne; he gave me his name.
_Q._ Is that the gentleman you have been speaking of? (_pointing to De
Berenger._)
_A._ Yes.
_Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson._
_Q._ How do you know that £.40 note to be the note you received?
_A._ By a copy that I made at the time.
_Q._ Have you got that copy with you?
_A._ This is a copy of my waste book--the waste book is at Sunderland.
_Q._ You identify it by means of the copy which you have made from your
waste-book, which book you have left at Sunderland.
_A._ Yes; and also from my initials on the back of the note.
_Q._ Made at the time?
_A._ A day or two afterwards.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Before you parted with it?
_A._ Yes.
_Mr. Richardson._ You are the agent of the Durham Bank?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ You have a great many notes passing through your hands?
_A._ Yes.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Are you sure that when you made that memorandum,
you had perfectly in your recollection from whom you took that note?
_A._ Yes, perfectly.
_Mr. Richardson._ You did not keep this distinct from your other notes?
_A._ No.
_Q._ You mixed it with your other notes?
_A._ Yes.
_Q._ You marked it several days afterwards?
_A._ I marked it between the 31st of March and the 4th of April, when I
remitted it.
_Q._ You put your name upon every bank note that passes through your
hands?
_A._ No, I do not.
_Q._ Why did you put your name upon this?
_A._ I cannot give a satisfactory answer why.
_Q._ Do you generally put your initials on notes that pass through your
hands, or not?
_A._ No, I do not.
_Q._ How came you to do so in this particular case?
_A._ I have before answered that I cannot give a satisfactory reason.
_Q._ At Sunderland, which is a place of great business, do not a large
number of bank notes pass through your hands?
_A._ Yes, there do of course.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Did the transaction of your sending Durham notes,
and his objecting to not having more bank notes, fix the circumstance of
the £.40. note more strongly in your memory?
_A._ I have not had another £.40. note since that.
_Q._ Nor had you at the time?
_A._ No, I had not.
_Q._ Nor since?
_A._ No.
_Mr. Gurney._ The only remaining head of evidence that I have to trouble
your lordship with, is with respect to a check for £.56. 5_s._ paid by
Mr. Fearn to Mr. Butt, and the produce of that.
_Mr. Pattesall sworn;_
_Examined by Mr. Gurney._
_Q._ Are you a partner in the house of Bond & Company?
_A._ I am.
_Q._ Look at that check of Mr. Fearn's, did you pay that?
_A._ I did not.
_Q._ Who did pay it?
_A._ Mr. Evans, a clerk of ours.
_Q._ Is Mr. Evans here?
_A._ Upon my word I cannot tell.
_Mr. Gurney._ He has been expressly desired to be in attendance.
_Lord Ellenborough._ Then call him upon his subpoena if he does not
appear.
_Mr. Gurney._ Just look and see whether the entry is Evans's
hand-writing.
_A._ It is Evans's hand-writing.
_Thomas Evans was called on his subpoena, and did not
appear._
_Lord Ellenborough._ This entry then will be of no use to you.
_Mr. Gurney._ No, my Lord; it was mentioned that there were two
Napoleons in the letter case: Mr. Wood has those two Napoleons to
produce.
[_Mr. Wood produced two Napoleons._]
_Mr. Gurney._ This, my Lord, is the evidence on the part of the
prosecution.
* * * * *
_Mr. Serjeant Best._ I wish to apprize your Lordship that I think it
will be necessary for the defendants to call witnesses.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I should wish to hear your opening, and to get into
the defendants case, if I can; there are several gentlemen attending as
witnesses, who, I find cannot, without the greatest public
inconvenience, attend to-morrow.
_Mr. Park._. The difficulty we feel, I am sure your Lordship will feel
as strongly as we do the fatigue, owing to the length of our attendance
here; but we will proceed if your Lordship desires it.
_Lord Ellenborough._ I would wish to get into the case, so as to have
the examination of several witnesses, upon whom the public business of
certain offices depend, gone through, if possible.
_Mr. Park._ I have undergone very great fatigue, which I am able to
bear; but I would submit to your Lordship the hardship upon parties who
are charged with so very serious an offence as this, if their case is
heard at this late hour; and then a fresh day is given to my learned
friend to reply.
_Lord Ellenborough._ It will not be a fresh day when you will be here by
nine o'clock, and the sun will be up almost before we can adjourn; I
will sit through it if you require it, rather than that.
* * * * *
_Mr. Alley._ On the part of M'Rae, I shall not trouble your Lordship
with any witnesses or observations.
* * * * *