Mas. ay. Con^t no. N. J. no. _P^a div^d_ Del. no. M^d no.
_V^a ay._ N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
On the motion of M^r Randolph, the vote of saturday last authorizing the
Legisl^{re} to adjust from time to time, the representation upon the
principles of _wealth_ & numbers of inhabitants, was reconsidered by
common consent in order to strike out "Wealth" and adjust the resolution
to that requiring periodical revisions, according to the number of
whites & three fifths of the blacks: the motion was in the words
following:--"But as the present situation of the States may probably
alter in the number of their inhabitants, that the Legislature of the U.
S. be authorized from time to time to apportion the number of
representatives; and in case any of the States shall hereafter be
divided or any two or more States united or new States created within
the limits of the U. S. the Legislature of U. S. shall possess authority
to regulate the number of Representatives in any of the foregoing cases,
upon the principle of their number of inhabitants; according to the
provisions hereafter mentioned."
M^r Gov^r Morris opposed the alteration as leaving still incoherence. If
Negroes were to be viewed as inhabitants, and the revision was to
proceed on the principle of numbers of inhab^{ts} they ought to be added
in their entire number, and not in the proportion of 3/5. If as
property, the word wealth was right, and striking it out would produce
the very inconsistency which it was meant to get rid of.--The train of
business & the late turn which it had taken, had led him he said, into
deep meditation on it, and He w^d candidly state the result. A
distinction had been set up & urged, between the N^n and South^n States.
He had hitherto considered this doctrine as heretical. He still thought
the distinction groundless. He sees however that it is persisted in, and
the South^n Gentlemen will not be satisfied unless they see the way open
to their gaining a majority in the public Councils. The consequence of
such a transfer of power from the maritime to the interior & landed
interest will he foresees be such an oppression of commerce that he
shall be obliged to vote for y^e vicious principle of equality in the
2^d branch in order to provide some defence for the N. States ag^{st}
it. But to come more to the point; either this distinction is fictitious
or real; if fictitious let it be dismissed & let us proceed with due
confidence. If it be real, instead of attempting to blend incompatible
things, let us at once take a friendly leave of each other. There can be
no end of demands for security if every particular interest is to be
entitled to it. The Eastern States may claim it for their fishery, and
for other objects, as the South^n States claim it for their peculiar
objects. In this struggle between the two ends of the Union, what part
ought the middle States in point of policy to take: to join their
Eastern brethren according to his ideas. If the South^n States get the
power into their hands, and be joined as they will be with the interior
Country, they will inevitably bring on a war with Spain for the
Mississippi. This language is already held. The interior Country having
no property nor interest exposed on the sea, will be little affected by
such a war. He wished to know what security the North^n & middle States
will have ag^{st} this danger. It has been said that N. C. S. C., and
Georgia only will in a little time have a majority of the people of
America. They must in that case include the great interior Country, and
every thing was to be apprehended from their getting the power into
their hands.
M^r Butler. The security the South^n States want is that their negroes
may not be taken from them, which some gentlemen within or without
doors, have a very good mind to do. It was not supposed that N. C. S. C.
& Geo. would have more people than all the other States, but many more
relatively to the other States than they now have. The people & strength
of America are evidently bearing Southwardly & S. westw^{dly}.
M^r Wilson. If a general declaration would satisfy any gentleman he had
no indisposition to declare his sentiments. Conceiving that all men
wherever placed have equal rights and are equally entitled to
confidence, he viewed without apprehension the period when a few States
should contain the superior number of people. The majority of people
wherever found ought in all questions to govern the minority. If the
interior Country should acquire this majority, it will not only have the
right, but will avail itself of it whether we will or no. This jealousy
misled the policy of G. Britain with regard to America. The fatal maxims
espoused by her were that the Colonies were growing too fast, and that
their growth must be stinted in time. What were the consequences?,
first, enmity on our part, then actual separation. Like consequences
will result on the part of the interior settlements, if like jealousy &
policy be pursued on ours. Further, if numbers be not a proper rule, why
is not some better rule pointed out. No one has yet ventured to attempt
it. Cong^s have never been able to discover a better. No State as far as
he had heard, had suggested any other. In 1783, after elaborate
discussion of a measure of wealth all were satisfied then as they are
now that the rule of numbers, does not differ much from the combined
rule of numbers & wealth. Again he could not agree that property was the
sole or primary object of Gov^t & society. The cultivation & improvement
of the human mind was the most noble object. With respect to this
object, as well as to other _personal_ rights, numbers were surely the
natural & precise measure of Representation. And with respect to
property, they could not vary much from the precise measure. In no point
of view however could the establishm^t of numbers as the rule of
representation in the 1^{st} branch vary his opinion as to the
impropriety of letting a vicious principle into the 2^d branch.--On the
Question to strike out _Wealth_, & to make the change as moved by M^r
Randolph, it passed in the affirmative.
Mas. ay. Con^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del div^d. M^d ay. V^a ay.
N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
M^r Reed moved to insert after the word "divided," "or enlarged by
addition of territory" which was agreed to nem con. (his object probably
was to provide for such cases as an enlargem^t of Delaware by annexing
to it the Peninsula on the East side of the Chesapeak.)
Adjourned.