M^r L. Martin called for the question on the whole report, including the
parts relating to the origination of money bills, and the equality of
votes in the 2^d branch.
M^r Gerry, wished before the question should be put, that the attention
of the House might be turned to the dangers apprehended from Western
States. He was for admitting them on liberal terms, but not for putting
ourselves in their hands. They will if they acquire power like all men,
abuse it. They will oppress commerce, and drain our wealth into the
Western Country. To guard ag^{st} these consequences, he thought it
necessary to limit the number of new States to be admitted into the
Union, in such a manner, that they should never be able to outnumber the
Atlantic States. He accordingly moved "that in order to secure the
liberties of the States already confederated, the number of
Representatives in the 1^{st} branch, of the States which shall
hereafter be established, shall never exceed in number, the
Representatives from such of the States as shall accede to this
Confederation.
M^r King, seconded the motion.
M^r Sherman, thought there was no probability that the number of future
States would exceed that of the Existing States. If the event should
ever happen, it was too remote to be taken into consideration at this
time. Besides We are providing for our posterity, for our children & our
grand Children; who would be as likely to be citizens of new Western
States, as of the old States. On this consideration alone, we ought to
make no such discrimination as was proposed by the motion.
M^r Gerry. If some of our children should remove, others will stay
behind, and he thought it incumbent on us to provide for their
interests. There was a rage for emigration from the Eastern States to
the Western Country, and he did not wish those remaining behind to be at
the mercy of the emigrants. Besides foreigners are resorting to that
Country, and it is uncertain what turn things may take there.--On the
question for agreeing to the Motion of M^r Gerry, it passed in the
negative.
Mass. ay. Con^t ay. N. J. no. P^a div^d. Del. ay. M^d ay.
V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.
M^r Rutlidge proposed to reconsider the two propositions touching the
originating of money bills in the first & the equality of votes in the
second branch.
M^r Sherman was for the question on the whole at once. It was he said a
conciliatory plan, it had been considered in all its parts, a great deal
of time had been spent upon it, and if any part should now be altered,
it would be necessary to go over the whole ground again.
M^r L. Martin urged the question on the whole. He did not like many
parts of it. He did not like having two branches, nor the inequality of
votes in the 1^{st} branch. He was willing however to make trial of the
plan, rather than do nothing.
M^r Wilson traced the progress of the report through its several stages,
remarking y^t when on the question concerning an equality of votes, the
House was divided, our Constituents had they voted as their
representatives did, would have stood as 2/3 ag^{st} the equality, and
1/3 only in favor of it. This fact would ere long be known, and it will
appear that this fundamental point has been carried by 1/3 ag^{st} 2/3.
What hopes will our Constituents entertain when they find that the
essential principles of justice have been violated in the outset of the
Governm^t. As to the privilege of originating money bills, it was not
considered by any as of much moment, and by many as improper in itself.
He hoped both clauses w^d be reconsidered. The equality of votes was a
point of such critical importance, that every opportunity ought to be
allowed, for discussing and collecting the mind of the Convention upon
it.
M^r L. Martin denies that there were 2/3 ag^{st} the equality of votes.
The States that please to call themselves large, are the weakest in the
Union. Look at Mas^{ts}. Look at Virg^a. Are they efficient States? He
was for letting a separation take place if they desired it. He had
rather there should be two Confederacies, than one founded on any other
principle than an equality of votes in the 2^d branch at least.
M^r Wilson was not surprised that those who say that a minority is more
than a majority should say the minority is stronger than the majority.
He supposed the next assertion will be that they are richer also; though
he hardly expected it would be persisted in when the States shall be
called on for taxes & troops.
M^r Gerry also animadverted on M^r L. Martins remarks on the weakness of
Mas^{ts}. He favored the reconsideration with a view not of destroying
the equality of votes; but of providing that the States should vote per
Capita, which he said would prevent the delays & inconveniences that had
been experienced in Cong^s and would give a national aspect & Spirit to
the management of business. He did not approve of a reconsideration of
the clause relating to money bills. It was of great consequence. It was
the corner stone of the accommodation. If any member of the Convention
had the exclusive privilege of making propositions, would any one say
that it would give him no advantage over other members. The Report was
not altogether to his mind. But he would agree to it as it stood rather
than throw it out altogether.