M^r Gov^r Morris moved to add to the clause empowering the Legislature
to vary the Representation according to the principles of wealth &
numbers of inhab^{ts} a "proviso that taxation shall be in proportion to
Representation."
M^r Butler contended again that Representation s^d be according to the
full number of inhab^{ts} including all the blacks; admitting the
justice of M^r Gov^r Morris's motion.
M^r Mason also admitted the justice of the principle, but was afraid
embarrassments might be occasioned to the Legislature by it. It might
drive the Legislature to the plan of Requisitions.
M^r Gov^r Morris, admitted that some objections lay ag^{st} his Motion,
but supposed they would be removed by restraining the rule to _direct_
taxation. With regard to indirect taxes on _exports_ & imports & on
consumption the rule would be inapplicable. Notwithstanding what had
been said to the contrary he was persuaded that the imports &
consumption were pretty nearly equal throughout the Union.
General Pinkney liked the idea. He thought it so just that it could not
be objected to. But foresaw that if the revision of the census was left
to the discretion of the Legislature, it would never be carried into
execution. The rule must be fixed, and the execution of it enforced by
the Constitution. He was alarmed at what was said[131] yesterday,
concerning the Negroes. He was now again alarmed at what had been thrown
out concerning the taxing of exports. S. Carol^a has in one year
exported to the amount of £600,000 Sterling all which was the fruit of
the labor of her blacks. Will she be represented in proportion to this
amount? She will not. Neither ought she then to be subject to a tax on
it. He hoped a clause would be inserted in the system, restraining the
Legislature from taxing Exports.
[131] By M^r Gov^r Morris. Note in Madison's handwriting.
M^r Wilson approved the principle, but could not see how it could be
carried into execution; unless restrained to direct taxation.
M^r Gov^r Morris having so varied his Motion by inserting the word
"direct." It pass^d nem. con. as follows--"provided always that direct
taxation ought to be proportioned to representation."
M^r Davie said it was high time now to speak out. He saw that it was
meant by some gentlemen to deprive the Southern States of any share of
Representation for their blacks. He was sure that N. Carol^a would never
confederate on any terms that did not rate them at least as 3/5. If the
Eastern States meant therefore to exclude them altogether the business
was at an end.
D^r Johnson, thought that wealth and population were the true, equitable
rule of representation; but he conceived that these two principles
resolved themselves into one; population being the best measure of
wealth. He concluded therefore that y^e number of people ought to be
established as the rule, and that all descriptions including blacks
_equally_ with the Whites, ought to fall within the computation. As
various opinions had been expressed on the subject, he would move that a
Committee might be appointed to take them into consideration and report
thereon.
M^r Gov^r Morris. It has been said that it is high time to speak out, as
one member, he would candidly do so. He came here to form a compact for
the good of America. He was ready to do so with all the States. He hoped
& believed that all would enter into such a Compact. If they would not
he was ready to join with any States that would. But as the Compact was
to be voluntary, it is in vain for the Eastern States to insist on what
the South^n States will never agree to. It is equally vain for the
latter to require what the other States can never admit; and he verily
believed the people of Pen^a will never agree to a representation of
Negroes. What can be desired by these States more than has been already
proposed; that the Legislature shall from time to time regulate
Representation according to population & wealth.
Gen^l Pinkney desired that the rule of wealth should be ascertained and
not left to the pleasure of the Legislature; and that property in slaves
should not be exposed to danger under a Gov^t instituted for the
protection of property.
The first clause in the Report of the first Grand Committee was
postponed.
M^r Elseworth. In order to carry into effect the principle established,
moved that to add to the last clause adopted by the House the words
following, "and that the rule of contribution by direct taxation for the
support of the Government of the U. States shall be the number of white
inhabitants, and three fifths of every other description in the several
States, until some other rule that shall more accurately ascertain the
wealth of the several States can be devised and adopted by the
Legislature."
M^r Butler seconded the motion in order that it might be committed.
M^r Randolph was not satisfied with the motion. The danger will be
revived that the ingenuity of the Legislature may evade or pervert the
rule so as to perpetuate the power where it shall be lodged in the first
instance. He proposed in lieu of M^r Elseworth's motion, "that in order
to ascertain the alterations in Representation that may be required from
time to time by changes in the relative circumstances of the States, a
Census shall be taken within two years from the 1^{st} meeting of the
Gen^l Legislature of the U.S. and once within the term of every ----
year afterwards, of all the inhabitants in the manner & according to the
ratio recommended by Congress in their resolution of the 18^{th} day of
Ap^l 1783, (rating the blacks at 3/5 of their number) and that the
Legislature of the U. S. shall arrange the Representation accordingly."
He urged strenuously that express security ought to be provided for
including slaves in the ratio of Representation. He lamented that such a
species of property existed. But as it did exist the holders of it would
require this security. It was perceived that the design was entertained
by some of excluding slaves altogether; the Legislature therefore ought
not to be left at liberty.
M^r Elseworth withdraws his motion & seconds that of M^r Randolph.
M^r Wilson observed that less umbrage would perhaps be taken ag^{st} an
admission of the slaves into the Rule of representation, if it should be
so expressed as to make them indirectly only an ingredient in the rule,
by saying that they should enter into the rule of taxation; and as
representation was to be according to taxation, the end would be equally
attained. He accordingly moved & was 2^{ded} so to alter the last clause
adopted by the House, that together with the amendment proposed the
whole should read as follows--provided always that the representation
ought to be proportioned according to direct taxation, and in order to
ascertain the alterations in the direct taxation which may be required
from time to time by the changes in the relative circumstances of the
States, Resolved that a census be taken within two years from the first
meeting of the Legislature of the U. States, and once within the term of
every ---- years afterwards of all the inhabitants of the U.S. in the
manner and according to the ratio recommended by Congress in their
Resolution of April 18. 1783; and that the Legislature of the U.S. shall
proportion the direct taxation accordingly.
M^r King. Altho' this amendment varies the aspect somewhat, he had still
two powerful objections ag^{st} tying down the Legislature to the rule
of numbers. 1. they were at this time an uncertain index of the relative
wealth of the States. 2. if they were a just index at this time it can
not be supposed always to continue so. He was far from wishing to retain
any unjust advantage whatever in one part of the Republic. If justice
was not the basis of the connection it could not be of long duration. He
must be shortsighted indeed who does not foresee that whenever the
Southern States shall be more numerous than the Northern, they can &
will hold a language that will awe them into justice. If they threaten
to separate now in case injury shall be done them, will their threats be
less urgent or effectual, when force shall back their demands. Even in
the intervening period, there will be no point of time at which they
will not be able to say, do us justice or we will separate. He urged the
necessity of placing confidence to a certain degree in every Gov^t and
did not conceive that the proposed confidence as to a periodical
readjustment of the representation exceeded that degree.
M^r Pinkney moved to amend M^r Randolph's motion so as to make "blacks
equal to the whites in the ratio of representation." This he urged was
nothing more than justice. The blacks are the labourers, the peasants of
the Southern States: they are as productive of pecuniary resources as
those of the Northern States. They add equally to the wealth, and
considering money as the sinew of war, to the strength of the nation. It
will also be politic with regard to the Northern States, as taxation is
to keep pace with Representation.
Gen^l Pinkney moves to insert 6 years instead of two, as the period
computing from the 1^{st} meeting of y^e Legis^e within which the first
census should be taken. On this question for inserting six, instead of
"two" in the proposition of M^r Wilson, it passed in the affirmative
Mass^{ts} no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. div^d. May^d ay.
V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. no.
On a question for filling the blank for y^e periodical census with 20
years, it passed in the negative
Mass^{ts} no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P. ay. Del. no. M^d no. V^a no.
N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.
On a question for 10 years, it passed in the affirmative.
Mass. ay. Con^t no. N. J. no. P. ay. Del. ay. M^d ay. V^a ay.
N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
On M^r Pinkney's motion for rating blacks as equal to Whites instead of
as 3/5.
Mass. no. Con^t no. (D^r Johnson ay) N. J. no. P^a no. (3 ag^{st}
2.) Del. no. M^d no. V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo--ay.
M^r Randolph's proposition as varied by M^r Wilson being read for
question on the whole--
M^r Gerry, urged that the principle of it could not be carried into
execution as the States were not to be taxed as States. With regard to
taxes in imposts, he conceived they would be more productive Where there
were no slaves than where there were; the consumption being greater--
M^r Elseworth. In case of a poll tax there w^d be no difficulty. But
there w^d probably be none. The sum allotted to a State may be levied
without difficulty according to the plan used by the State in raising
its own supplies. On the question of y^e whole proposition; as
proportioning representation to direct taxation & both to the white &
3/5 of black inhabitants, & requiring a Census within six years--&
within every ten years afterwards.
Mass. div^d. Con^t ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d ay. V^a ay.
N. C. ay. S. C. div^d. Geo. ay.