Mr. SPECTER. At about what time was it when you observed those
individuals?
Mr. ROWLAND. This was between the time between 12:15 and 12:30. I think
I looked more than once.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times did you look?
Mr. ROWLAND. I don't know really. I was more or less scanning the crowd.
Mr. SPECTER. Did the individuals present on the triple overpass change
at the various times when you looked in that direction?
Mr. ROWLAND. I don't think so. I don't think anyone went off who was up
there or anyone else went on.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you now relate what occurred as the Presidential
motorcade passed by you?
Mr. ROWLAND. Well, the car turned the corner at Houston and Main.
Everyone was rushing, pressing the cars, trying to get closer. There
were quite a few people, you know, trying to run alongside of the car
such as this; officers were trying to prevent this. The car turned--we
had more or less a long period of time that they were within our sight
considering some of the other people.
The car went down Houston, again turned on Elm, and it was proceeding
down Elm when we heard the first of the reports. This I passed off
as a backfire, so did practically everyone in the area because gobs
of people, when I say gobs, I mean almost everyone in the vicinity,
started laughing that couldn't see the motorcade. The motorcade was
obscured from our vision by the crowd.
Mr. SPECTER. What would the occasion be for laughter on the sound of a
backfire?
Mr. ROWLAND. I don't know. A lot of people laughed. I don't know. But
a lot of people laughed, chuckled, such as this. Then approximately 5
seconds, 5 or 6 seconds, the second report was heard, 2 seconds the
third report. After the second report, I knew what it was, and----
Mr. SPECTER. What was it?
Mr. ROWLAND. I knew that it was a gun firing.
Mr. SPECTER. How did you know that?
Mr. ROWLAND. I have been around guns quite a bit in my lifetime.
Mr. SPECTER. Was the sound of the fire different from the first and
second sounds you described?
Mr. ROWLAND. No, that is just it. It did not sound as though there was
any return fire in that sense.
Mr. SPECTER. What do you mean by return fire?
Mr. ROWLAND. That anyone fired back. You know, anyone in the procession
such as our detectives or Secret Service men fired back at anything
else. It gave the report of a rifle which most of the Secret Service
men don't carry in a holster although I am sure they had some in the
cars but the following two shots were the same report being of the
same intensity. I state, because from a different position I know that
the same rifle is not going to make the same sound in two different
positions especially in a position such as it was, because of the
ricocheting of sound and echo effects.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your basis for saying that, Mr. Rowland, that the
rifle would not make the same sound in two different positions?
Mr. ROWLAND. This is due to a long study of sound and study of echo
effects.
Mr. SPECTER. When had you conducted that study?
Mr. ROWLAND. In physics in the past 3 years.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you read any special books on that subject?
Mr. ROWLAND. Quite a few.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recollect any of the titles and authors?
Mr. ROWLAND. No; I do not.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you take any special courses which would give you
insight into that subject matter?
Mr. ROWLAND. This was more or less on my own initiative. The instructor
gave me help and aided me when I requested this during my off periods
of class.
Mr. SPECTER. What instructor was that?
Mr. ROWLAND. His name was Foster.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall his first name?
Mr. ROWLAND. Sam.
Mr. SPECTER. And at what school does he teach?
Mr. ROWLAND. He teaches at Crozier Tech, Downtown Technical High School.
Mr. SPECTER. Is he still there?
Mr. ROWLAND. To my knowledge.
Mr. SPECTER. How recently did you have a course with him?
Mr. ROWLAND. Last year, last school year.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the second sound by comparison with the
first sound which you have described as being similar to a backfire?
Mr. ROWLAND. The second to my recollection was identical or as closely
as could be.
Mr. SPECTER. How about the third shot?
Mr. ROWLAND. The same.
Mr. SPECTER. Sounded the same to you?
Mr. ROWLAND. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any impression or reaction as to the point of
origin when you heard the first noise?
Mr. ROWLAND. Well, I began looking, I didn't look at the building
mainly, and as practically any of the police officers that were there
then will tell you, the echo effect was such that it sounded like it
came from the railroad yards. That is where I looked, that is where all
the policemen, everyone, converged on the railroads.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say railroad yards, what area are you referring
to? Identify it on Commission Exhibit No. 354, for example?
Mr. ROWLAND. In this area in here.