Mr. SPECTER. What did you do next?
Mr. JACKSON. I said "There is the gun," or it came from that window. I
tried to point it out. But by the time the other people looked up, of
course, it was gone, and about that time we were beginning to turn the
corner.
Mr. SPECTER. Which corner were you beginning to turn?
Mr. JACKSON. Houston onto Elm.
Mr. SPECTER. I now show you a photograph marked as Commission Exhibit
No. 348 and ask you if you can identify what that depicts?
Mr. JACKSON. This is the School Book Depository. This is the window the
two colored men were looking out of. This is the window where the rifle
was.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you mark the window where the rifle was with an "A"
and would you please mark the window where you have identified the men
below with a "B."
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER. Referring to your mark of "A," the photograph will show
that you have marked the window on the sixth floor with the mark being
placed on the window on the westerly half of the first double window.
Mr. JACKSON. I am sorry. This window here on the very end was
the window where the weapon was. I am sorry, I just marked the
double--actually this is the rifle window right here.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you take the black pencil again and draw an
arrow--before you start to mark, hear the rest of the question--as
precisely as you can to the exact spot where you saw what you have
described as the rifle.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER. Was the window you have just marked as being the spot from
which the rifle protruded, open when you looked up?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best recollection as to how far open it was
at that time?
Mr. JACKSON. I would say that it was open like that window there,
halfway.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating a window on the sixth floor of the westernmost
portion of the building open halfway as you have described it.
My last comment, as to the description of your last window, is only for
the purpose of what you have said in identifying a window to show how
far open the window was.
Mr. JACKSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Which you heretofore marked with an arrow, correct?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Also in that window I could see boxes, corrugated boxes on the left
portion which would be my left, of the window, of the open window.
Mr. SPECTER. How many boxes could you see?
Mr. JACKSON. I couldn't tell. It just seemed like a stack of boxes.
Mr. SPECTER. How high were the boxes stacked?
Mr. JACKSON. Maybe two is all I saw. They were stacked, I believe they
were as high as the window was open, halfway up the window.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best recollection of the size of those boxes
which you say you saw?
Mr. JACKSON. Maybe like that, that wide.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating approximately 3 feet wide?
Mr. JACKSON. Three feet or a little less maybe.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the height of those boxes?
Mr. JACKSON. I would say high enough to hide a man. Let's say, between
5 and 6 feet high, I would say to the best of my recollection. From the
angle I was looking at it, I would say they were 5 feet high at least.
Mr. SPECTER. That is each box would be 5 feet high?
Mr. JACKSON. No; the stack, the stacked boxes.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you see how many boxes were stacked up to reach a
total height of 5 to 6 feet?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, were you able to see anyone in front of those boxes?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Whether or not you could identify anyone, could you see
even the form or outline of the man?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir. It looked to me like the man was over to the side
of the window because the rifle was at quite an angle to me.
Mr. SPECTER. Which side of the window?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, from the position of the rifle it would be the
corner of the building, the east. It would be to the right of the
window from my view.
Mr. SPECTER. Which direction was the rifle pointing?
Mr. JACKSON. West. To my left.
Mr. SPECTER. Was it pointing in a straight westerly direction or was it
pointing at an angle from the building.
Mr. JACKSON. It was at an angle from the building. I am not--well,
let's see--well, it wouldn't be directly west.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the general line of direction of the pointing of
the rifle?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, directly down the street.
Mr. SPECTER. And by down the street you are pointing out what street?
Mr. JACKSON. Down Elm Street toward the triple, toward the underpass.
Mr. SPECTER. Was it pointed as you have indicated at the angle which
Elm Street traverses heading toward the triple underpass?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir. And the rifle was pointing slightly down.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you at any time in this sequence observe the
President's automobile?
Mr. JACKSON. As we turned the corner--or we stopped where the
intersection, actually we stopped before we began to turn left onto Elm
Street, or rather I would say we hesitated and we were all looking down
towards the President's car and I could see two cars going under the
underpass. I barely saw the President's car. I would say just the rear
end of it as it disappeared under the underpass.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that the only time you saw the President's car from
the time you made a right-hand turn off of Main Street onto Houston
Street?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the time span between the
first shot you heard and the last shot you heard?
Mr. JACKSON. I would say 5 to 8 seconds.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you give us a breakdown between the shots which you
heard as to how many seconds elapsed between each one?
Mr. JACKSON. I would say to me it seemed like 3 or 4 seconds between
the first and the second, and between the second and third, well, I
guess 2 seconds, they were very close together. It could have been more
time between the first and second. I really can't be sure.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you sure you heard three shots?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, will you mark on the overhead shot, which is Exhibit
347, with a "Y" as precisely as you can the position of your automobile
at the time you heard the second shot?
Mr. JACKSON. With a "Y"?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes, please.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER. Would you now mark on the same exhibit the precise
position of your car as closely as you can recollect it when you heard
the third shot with a letter "Z"?
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER. When, in relation to the timing of the shots, which
you have described, did you first look toward the Texas School Book
Depository Building?
Mr. JACKSON. It couldn't have been more than 3 seconds before I looked
at that window.
Mr. SPECTER. Three seconds from what point in time?
Mr. JACKSON. From the last shot.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you say from the last shot?
Mr. JACKSON. From the last shot, yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best recollection or estimate of the speed
of your automobile as you were proceeding in a generally northerly
direction on Houston Street at the time of the shooting?
Mr. JACKSON. I would say not over 15 miles an hour.
Mr. SPECTER. What would your best estimate be as to the minimum speed?
Mr. JACKSON. Ten, I would say.
Mr. SPECTER. Where, in the window were the two Negro men, whom you have
described?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, there was one in each of those double windows.
Mr. SPECTER. On which floor was that?
Mr. JACKSON. The fifth floor.
Mr. SPECTER. And will you place an arrow where you saw each of those
men, please?
Mr. JACKSON. Each one of them?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction from either or both of those
two men when you saw them?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir. Just looking up.
Mr. SPECTER. Could you see their faces reasonably clearly to observe
that they were looking up.
Mr. JACKSON. I could tell they were looking up because they were
leaning way out just like that. I couldn't see their faces very well at
all.
Mr. SPECTER. The witness has leaned forward and turned his head to
the right and looking upward as he sits in the witness chair, may the
record show.
Representative FORD. Did they both turn the same way as you have
indicated in answer to Mr. Specter's question?
Mr. JACKSON. To the best of my recollection one man looked up to his
right and the other man looked up like this to his left, one in each
window.
Representative FORD. Can you identify which to his right and which to
his left?
Mr. JACKSON. I believe the one on the right window, my right, was
looking to his right. The one on the west window, the one to my left
was looking to his left. I believe I am right on that but I may not
be because I just looked at them for a fraction of a second, I just
followed them up.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the distance which separated
you from those two men at the time you observed them?
Mr. JACKSON. I am not very good at distances. I was about the middle of
the block, I guess. I would say around a hundred yards, I guess.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see those two men before or after you observed the
rifle?
Mr. JACKSON. Before.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of how many inches of the rifle
that you observed?
Mr. JACKSON. I saw the barrel and about half--well, I did not see a
telescopic sight, but I did see part of the stock, so I guess maybe 8
or 10 inches of the stock maybe. I did see part of the stock, I did not
see the sight.
Mr. SPECTER. Eight or ten inches of the stock, and how much of the
barrel would you estimate?
Mr. JACKSON. I guess possibly a foot.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see anyone's hands on the rifle?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, as best as you can recollect it, what exact words did
you state at or about the time you made the observation of the rifle,
if any?
Mr. JACKSON. I said, "There is the gun" and somebody said "Where?" And
I said, "It came from that window" and I pointed to that window.