The CHAIRMAN. 1950 or 1960?
Mr. JACKSON. 1960.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you outline for us briefly your educational
background, please?
Mr. JACKSON. I attended Highland Park High School and then Southern
Methodist University, where I studied for a business degree, and I did
not finish. I lack about 8 hours of finishing, of getting a degree.
Mr. SPECTER. What year did you leave the university?
Mr. JACKSON. 1957.
Mr. SPECTER. How were you occupied between the time you left the
university and the time you started to work for the newspaper?
Mr. JACKSON. I did some freelance photography work for a while, over
a year, until I went into the service on the 6 month's plan through
my National Guard unit, and I was a photographer there in the Army,
on-the-job training, and then after I was released from the Army I did
freelance work, I guess for about a year, until I got the job at the
Herald.
Mr. SPECTER. How old are you at the present time?
Mr. JACKSON. Twenty-nine.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your marital status?
Mr. JACKSON. I am married.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have children?
Mr. JACKSON. One child. One girl 15 months today.
Mr. SPECTER. Going back to November 22, 1963, by whom were you employed
at that time?
Mr. JACKSON. Dallas Times Herald.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your assignment on that specific day?
Mr. JACKSON. I was assigned to the motorcade to meet the President,
Love Field, and go to the Trade Mart and that was the extent of it,
cover the parade, I mean the motorcade and the speech.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you assigned to take pictures?
Mr. JACKSON. To take pictures, yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you meet the President at Love Field?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And did you take photographs for your newspaper at Love
Field?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Describe briefly your activities at Love Field on the
morning of November 22, please.
Mr. JACKSON. Well, we got there, I guess, 30, 40 minutes early.
Mr. SPECTER. At about what time would that have been?
Mr. JACKSON. I have to think to remember exactly what time, around 9,
I guess, 9 to 9:15, I believe. And I took pictures there. There were
other photographers from our paper there, our chief photographer. And
we just took shots of the crowd, and waited for the President to arrive.
And then when he did arrive, our chief photographer left and went
directly to the Trade Mart and I got into the motorcade to ride to town.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know exactly which car you were in in the motorcade?
Mr. JACKSON. We counted up, and it is either the seventh or eighth car.
We said eighth car from the President, from the lead car.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say we counted up, whom do you mean?
Mr. JACKSON. The photographers in the car. As we left Love Field, we
were trying to figure how far back we were and we all decided it was
the eighth car.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you reconstruct that count for us which provided the
basis for your conclusion that you were in the seventh or eighth car.
For example, how many cars ahead of you was the President's car or the
Vice President's car, if you can recollect, please.
Mr. JACKSON. Let me think a minute. I know there was a photographer's
car directly in front of us which I believe had some of the local
press. It was a convertible. Then in front were, I believe, two
or three cars carrying the press, the White House press, and then
President Johnson, I guess would be in the next car, and then the
President in the lead car, or the next car, and I believe there was
another car in the lead.
Mr. SPECTER. So as you recollect the scene there was the lead and
immediately behind the lead car, whose car?
Mr. JACKSON. The President's, I believe.
Mr. SPECTER. And then immediately behind the President's whose car?
Mr. JACKSON. The Vice President's.
Mr. SPECTER. And immediately to the rear of the Vice President's car?
Mr. JACKSON. Press vehicles and I was told it was the White House
press, two or three cars.
Mr. SPECTER. And then there was one car filled with photographers?
Mr. JACKSON. Directly in front of us.
Mr. SPECTER. Between your car and the cars which you believe to have
been filled with White House newsmen?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Wasn't there a Secret Service car directly behind the
President's car?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Between it and the Vice President's car?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. SPECTER. Wasn't there a Secret Service car immediately behind the
Vice President's car, if you know?
Mr. JACKSON. There must have been. That is what I can't recall is which
was which in there. I knew the White House press was in there but I
didn't know how many cars. I am sure there were Secret Service cars,
yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. As you were proceeding along in the motorcade, were you
within sight of the President's automobile?
Mr. JACKSON. At times. When he was--when we could not get a clear view
of it because of the photographers in the car ahead of us who were
sitting up on the back of the seat just like we were, we did not have a
clear view of the car at all times.
Mr. SPECTER. As you proceeded along approximately how far behind the
President's car were you, expressed either in cars, block lengths or in
any way that is convenient for you?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, I would say approximately a block, average city
block, maybe closer at times.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Jackson, I show you a photograph which has been marked
heretofore as Commission Exhibit No. 347, and ask you to look at it for
a moment, and see if you can identify what that photograph depicts.
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir; this is the scene of the assassination, parade
route, Main and Houston, left on Elm.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, which street did the Presidential motorcade take
coming on to that scene which you have described as the assassination
scene.
Mr. JACKSON. They were on Houston.
Mr. SPECTER. And before Houston what street were they on?
Mr. JACKSON. Main Street.
Mr. SPECTER. What direction were they proceeding on Main Street?
Mr. JACKSON. West.
Mr. SPECTER. Now without reference to the photograph, will you tell us
what happened as the motorcade proceeded west on Main Street?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, on Main, as we neared Houston Street everyone was
more or less in a relaxed state in our car, because we were near the
end of the route, I guess, nothing unusual happened on Main Street.
The final block on Main, before we turned on Houston I was in the
process of unloading a camera and I was to toss it out of the car as we
turned right on Houston Street to one of our reporters.
Mr. SPECTER. Had that been set up by prearrangement?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir. And that I did as we turned the corner, and
when--it was in an interval and as I threw it out the wind blew it,
caught it and blew it out into the street and our reporter chased
it out into the street and the photographers in our car, one of the
photographers, was a TV cameraman whom I do not recall his name, and
he was joking about the film being thrown out and he was shooting my
picture of throwing the film out.
Mr. SPECTER. At this point could you tell us, to the best of your
recollection, precisely who was with you in the car at that time?
Mr. JACKSON. Jim Underwood from KRLD-TV station, Tom Dillard, chief
photographer for the Dallas Morning News, and me, and then two newsreel
cameramen who I know by sight but I don't know their names.
One is with WFAA which is the Dallas Morning News station, and I
believe the other was channel 11, I believe.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you position those people in the automobile for us
with respect to where each was sitting?
(At this point Representative Ford entered the hearing room.)
Mr. JACKSON. Tom Dillard and Jim Underwood were in the front seat with
the driver.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you identify who the driver was?
Mr. JACKSON. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. But he was a sixth individual separate and apart from the
five heretofore described?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir. And in the back seat were the two I know by
sight but I can't remember the names.
And I was on the right side of the car.
Mr. SPECTER. On the right side of which seat?
Mr. JACKSON. Back seat, sitting up on the back of a seat.
Mr. SPECTER. What kind of a car was it, sir?
Mr. JACKSON. I believe it was a Chevrolet convertible.
Mr. SPECTER. Top down?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you carrying one camera or more than one camera?
Mr. JACKSON. Two cameras.
Mr. SPECTER. And was one camera loaded at the time you rounded the
corner of Main and Houston?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir; and one was empty.
Mr. SPECTER. Was it from the camera which was empty that you had taken
the roll of film which you have just described?
Mr. JACKSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. All right. Will you now proceed to tell us what happened
as you rounded the corner of Main and Houston, please?
Mr. JACKSON. Well, as our reporter chased the film out into the street,
we all looked back at him and were laughing, and it was approximately
that time that we heard the first shot, and we had already rounded the
corner, of course, when we heard the first shot. We were approximately
almost half a block on Houston Street.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you identify for me on Commission Exhibit 347,
precisely as possible, where your automobile was at the time you heard
the first shot?
Mr. JACKSON. Approximately right here, I would say the midpoint of this
building. Approximately where we heard the first report.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, will you mark in a black "X" on 347 the spot where
your car was at the time you heard the first shot?
Mr. JACKSON. Right here approximately. And as we heard the first shot,
I believe it was Tom Dillard from Dallas News who made some remark as
to that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody
else who said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment
and before he actually finished the sentence we heard the other two
shots. Then we realized or we thought that it was gunfire, and then
we could not at that point see the President's car. We were still
moving slowly, and after the third shot the second two shots seemed
much closer together than the first shot, than they were to the first
shot. Then after the last shot, I guess all of us were just looking all
around and I just looked straight up ahead of me which would have been
looking at the School Book Depository and I noticed two Negro men in a
window straining to see directly above them, and my eyes followed right
on up to the window above them and I saw the rifle or what looked like
a rifle approximately half of the weapon, I guess I saw, and just as I
looked at it, it was drawn fairly slowly back into the building, and I
saw no one in the window with it.