_DIRECT EXAMINATION_
* * * * *
DR. FLEMING: Will you please draw the necessary conclusions from what we
have discovered about Ding’s diary?
DEFENDANT MRUGOWSKY: The various erroneous entries in this document and
the facts which the handwriting experts have discovered prove that this
document is not a diary in which entries were made from time to time.
Rather there are long periods of time that are missing, sometimes
periods of more than one year before the entries were made. Pages 1 to
3, I believe, were all written at the same time, and also the subsequent
pages. The document has 27 pages, which were written down on only a few
occasions. That is testified to by the handwriting expert. This explains
the various discrepancies between the entries and the actual facts; for
instance, calling the Robert Koch Institute a Reich Institute, when it
wasn’t, etc. The testimony of a prosecution witness, Balachowsky,
corroborates this affidavit.
Q. This affidavit is Document NO-484, Prosecution Exhibit 291.
Balachowsky said, under number 29: “The file notes which were copied
into the diary shortly before the collapse, give the precise number of
the pages and the number of the experiments.” Now please continue.
A. In these words Balachowsky corroborates the fact that this diary,
namely, this diary of Block 46, was drawn up shortly before the
collapse, apparently on several days, consequently the difference in the
typewriters used. Now, as to why he did this I can only conjecture—I do
not know. That there was some reason for making the entries in this form
would appear to be obvious.
Q. For the explanation of why Ding wrote this diary on Block 46 let me
remind you of Kogon’s testimony, namely, that after 1943 Ding was sure
that the war would be lost.
A. Yes. That is true. During his testimony Kogon often stated that from
the beginning of 1943 on, Ding made efforts to cover himself. He also
said that from that moment on, the oral assignments that he received
were not sufficient, but that he must insist on receiving written
orders. All the more remarkable is it then that the so-called diary,
this NO-265, says only very infrequently who initiated the various lines
of experimentation. And, if I recall correctly, he does not once say who
ordered them.
Q. Then do the contents of this diary meet the normal requirements of a
scientist’s diary?
A. The diary of a scientist has the purpose of setting down the precise
course of the work undertaken. Consequently, all efforts regarding the
initiation and course of experiments should be set down. That is a
perfectly comprehensible custom in all institutes because subsequently
the evaluation of the experiments is based on entries in the scientific
institute’s diary. In this Document NO-265, however, which is allegedly
such a diary of Block 46, there is not one entry regarding the actual
course of the experiments; not even the results of the experiments are
set down there. That is really the least that you could ask of such a
diary. Dr. Kogon thought that the number of fatalities which are set
down with clear precision were a result, to be sure, an unhappy result,
of these experiments. That these events are found lamentable can hardly
be disputed, but it is a false point of view if one orients oneself on
the basis of this result toward something, the purpose of which was
entirely different. The real experimental result can be seen in the
following: as a consequence of the protective vaccination, what happens
during a subsequent case of infection is that firstly, the period of
incubation is prolonged, namely, that period of time which lapses
between the actual infection and the first appearance of the disease.
Secondly, the period of fever is shortened, whereas usually the period
of fever in typhus is 17 days. This protective vaccination reduces it to
12, 10, and even 6 days, depending on the strength of the protective
vaccine. At the same time, the height of the temperature is reduced. In
other words, the symptoms that are associated with fever, which effect
the blood circulation and the heart, as well as those which effect the
central nervous system, are less pronounced or altogether absent after
the protective vaccine. There are various other small clinical
indications which a doctor readily recognizes as a result of the
protective vaccine, and it must be said that as the result of less
serious clinical manifestations, the number of fatalities from typhus is
smaller. That is not a direct but an indirect consequence of
vaccination. Therefore, when Ding asserts in this block diary of Block
46 that the most important result of the experiments was the number of
fatalities, then every doctor will recognize this as such an erroneous
and distorted statement that even if it is made by a doctor so reliable
as Ding, it is completely unworthy of credence.
Q. I now show you Mrugowsky 9 and I put it in as Mrugowsky Exhibit 23.
It is a photostat of a paper by Dr. Ding on the protective action of
various vaccines on human beings and the course of typhus after
immunization. I do not wish to read the document but simply desire to
bring it to the attention of the Tribunal. Would you care to make any
statement about the inadequate way in which this diary was worked on?
Would you like to say that perhaps Ding was not in a position to carry
on such work?
A. This paper is 13 pages long. First, there is the manner of the
patient’s tolerance for the vaccine, then the individual points which I
just mentioned as the consequences of the protective vaccination are
gone into. Tables are presented which give statistics in these matters.
There are eight sketches giving graphs showing the results; and at the
very bottom on the next to the last page, in the next to the last
paragraph, there are three lines which say that the fatalities in the
cases of those vaccinated were fewer in number than among those not
vaccinated. That is all mentioned in the summary—there is a final
summary. This is also an indication that he was perfectly capable of
carrying on scientific work. I should like to point out that at the top
of this paper it is mentioned that this work was done in my institute in
Berlin. I say that as an indication that I laid no stress on keeping
these matters secret in any way or that it was my point of view that
these experimental results which had been achieved on the most expensive
of all material, namely, human beings, should be carried through to
conclusion and that results should be made available to all who are
interested.
Q. The prosecution also charges you with the fact that Ding infected
persons in Buchenwald who had not previously received the protective
vaccination. Would you like to make a statement on that subject?
A. The following cases come into question here on the basis of Ding’s
diary entries. First of all, there are the so-called “preliminary
experiments”. In Document NO-265, four such preparatory experiments are
mentioned on nonvaccinated persons. These were done in order to
ascertain what method was possible in order to artificially infect human
beings with typhus. I always found that the lay person who had never
concerned himself with these matters assumes it to be a matter of course
that it is always possible to infect a human being with a disease. That,
however, is by no means the case. Even in the case of such a toxic
material as the typhus germ, successful infection can only occur if it
is not directed directly into the blood stream. Unless another way is
chosen, it is usually impossible to bring about infection with such a
disease. Consequently, when such experiments are to be carried out on
human beings—and this is a point of view which I express without any
reference to my own person—then such preliminary experiments cannot be
dispensed with. The second case is the so-called “controlled cases”.
Q. Did you know anything of these preliminary experiments?
A. No. I found out about them only through the diary.
Q. Ding says in his diary under the 20th of February 1942: “Case
histories and curves on the preliminary experiments were sent to
Berlin.” Did you receive this report?
A. No. Nor do I believe Ding sent it to me, because he was not
subordinate to me in these experiments and it seems, therefore, more
probable to me that he sent them to Grawitz. I, at any rate, did not see
them.
Q. How can this be reconciled with your letter of 5 May 1942 to Conti
and others which I put into evidence this morning as Mrugowsky 10,
Mrugowsky Exhibit 20?
A. This letter corroborates what I have just testified to, because the
report on this series of experiments was sent to Grawitz, and I received
Ding’s report to Grawitz from Grawitz himself with the order to rewrite
it in a suitable form, since Grawitz did not wish outside persons to be
able to see, without any further trouble to themselves, that these were
really experiments on human beings with artificial infection. He knew
that, to some extent, I could master the style which he used in his
official communications, whereas he did not know whether Ding could or
not. Consequently, he commissioned me to take Ding’s original report and
to cast it in a suitable form for the purpose of making communications
to the manufacturing firm. This I did, and the result is this document
dated 5 May 1942.
Q. Your letterhead here is “Reich Physician SS and Police, Chief
Hygienist”. In other words, this is one of the cases in which Grawitz
made use of you when you still belonged to the medical staff of the
Waffen SS?
A. Yes.
Q. Why didn’t Grawitz rephrase the letter himself?
A. There may have been two reasons for that. Firstly, Grawitz was not a
hygienist but an internist and since the letter was being sent to
specialists, namely, to those people who manufactured the vaccines, he
wanted to be sure that the letter contained everything they needed to
know and, on the other hand, no more than they needed to know; secondly,
this is quite in line with his customary manner of working, namely, to
let his collaborators write letters which dealt with their particular
sphere of work, and for this reason, he commissioned me to indite this
letter.
Q. On this occasion did you not once again express objections to Grawitz
regarding experiments on human beings?
A. That I did not do because this series of experiments had been
concluded and because I knew that they had been carried out on Himmler’s
specific orders. This was the first series of experiments which had ever
been carried out and it was the reason for my very violent show-down
with Grawitz at that time. I assumed that this job was now completed and
I had no reason to raise further objections.
Q. Were the vaccines of the Behring Works in an experimental stage when
Dr. Ding used them in his experiments?
A. No; these vaccines had already been tested in the plant as to a
person’s tolerance for them. All such preparations of the Behring Works
were worked on in their own laboratories before they were sent out into
the world.
Q. I submit to the Tribunal Mrugowsky 44, and I put it in as Mrugowsky
Exhibit 24. This is an affidavit by Dr. Demnitz, the manager of the
Behring Works, regarding the way in which the vaccines of the Behring
Works were developed and how they were tested in the institute itself.
On the fourth page, it reads:
“Naturally, the Behring Works also carried out tests to
establish whether the vaccines agreed with human beings for
(_a_) it was necessary to vaccinate those people working in the
typhus laboratories in order to protect them against typhus;
(_b_) it was necessary to protect those people who attended the
experimental animals; and (_c_) the undersigned himself was
vaccinated against typhus on several occasions with vaccines of
the Behring Works. These vaccinations had to be repeated from
time to time. This concerned both German and Russian assistants.
About 20 to 25 persons were employed in our typhus department.”
And Number 6: “The animal experiments according to Otto proved: (_a_)
the harmlessness and (_b_) the effectiveness or insufficient
effectiveness.”
It stated previously, “the question of whether the animals showed a
positive reaction is incomprehensible.” It stated also that animal
experiments were carried out in the Behring Works. I submit this
document to prove these were not vaccines which had not been previously
tested, but were vaccines which had gone through the necessary
preliminary and effective testing. Do you remember Kogon’s testimony
that volunteers were used in the first two series of experiments? This
testimony is on page 1,162 of the English transcript and on page 1,197
of the German transcript. If we base our assumptions on Ding’s diary,
what two series of experiments must these have been for which volunteers
were used?
A. If we base our statements on Ding’s diary we can only consider that
these two series were, first of all, the preliminary series A which
began on 5 January, and the first series of vaccine experiments with 145
persons regarding which the letter of 5 May 1942 that was previously
read concerns itself. (_Mrugowsky 10, Mrugowsky Ex. 20._) This series
began on the next day, namely, on 6 January 1942. Any other experiments
took place at a later date. Thus, when Kogon says that two series of
experiments were carried out with volunteers, it can only be these two
series of experiments.
Q. The experiments with which the letter of 5 May concerned itself were
carried out on volunteers?
A. Apparently they were.
Q. Can you remember the communication of 11 April 1943 to the effect
that the Mateska serum could no longer be used for experiments?
A. No, I don’t remember that and I consider it out of the question that
I ever received any such communication. In all bacteriology,
particularly in virology, there have been efforts for centuries to breed
live germs which are no longer pathogenic (which do not infect human
beings), in order to use these live germs for the manufacture of
vaccine, namely vaccines with live attenuated strains, because these are
a complete protection against the disease.
Q. In other words, you want to say that if you had received this
communication, you would have seen to it that further experiments were
carried out with this serum which was no longer so virulent?
A. I should not like to put it quite that way, but I should certainly
have contacted the person whose institute had developed this strain,
that was the Robert Koch Institute, Professor Gildemeister. However, I
never spoke to him about this matter, and I should like to believe that
he found nothing out about this matter because Gildemeister was one of
our best virus researchers and was very familiar with the value such a
really unique occurrence would have had.
Q. Did you see reports on the C and D series of experiments concerning
the discovery of a safe method of infection, which were said to have
taken place on the 11th and 13th of April?
A. No, I only found out about them here while looking through this
document and I also saw that Ding does not assert that he sent a report
on this to Berlin.
Q. On what further typhus experiment series did you then see reports?
A. In the diary of Block 46, Document NO-265, Ding says that only in the
case of a few experimental series did he send reports to Berlin, namely
the new experimental series, series I, II, VII, and VIII. I saw the
report on series I, having received it from Grawitz, and as I said
before, I rephrased it in another form, and it constitutes the document
here submitted. Series II was carried out with the vaccine of
Durand-Giroud of the Parisian Institute. That was the vaccine we
intended to produce in our own institute. I really cannot recall ever
having seen this report, but it is possible that I was informed of it by
Grawitz, because I remember that Grawitz one day told me that he was
convinced of the effectiveness of this vaccine and had no further
objection to my suggestion that we manufacture the vaccine according to
that process. The immunization in the course of this series was carried
on by Ding between 19 August and 4 September 1942. From 10 September to
9 October he was in Paris with Professor Giroud to learn his method, and
when he returned, he infected persons and sent the charts to Berlin on
20 November. It was probably then, toward the end of 1942, that Grawitz
spoke to me about this matter.
Q. Ding was ordered to report to Giroud in Paris in the autumn of 1942,
although, as you have stated, it was already decided at the end of 1941
to manufacture your own vaccines according to Giroud’s process. Now how
do you explain this delay?
A. In the infections carried out in series I on 3 March 1942, Ding
infected himself and fell seriously ill of typhus, despite his
protective vaccination. Subsequently, he went on leave to recover, and
when his health was somewhat restored, the business of going to Paris
was discussed, which was only possible in the autumn.
Q. There were 4 specific fatalities in the control cases. Now you say
that Grawitz probably discussed this matter with you. Did you do nothing
about the fact that there had been fatalities?
A. When Grawitz spoke to me about this matter, [I] could do nothing
because the series of experiments had already been concluded. But I do
remember pretty clearly the situation in his office there. I remember
that I brought up the matter of these 4 fatalities and told him that
that would probably be the last series that he instigated. He answered
that Himmler had ordered these experiments and that I had specifically
objected to being included in the matter, and consequently no longer had
any right to interfere in his business.
Q. The report on the typhus experimental series VII was concluded on 7
September 1943, and when finished a report was sent to Berlin on 9
September, according to Ding’s diary. Did you see this report?
A. No.
Q. But according to Ding’s work report, on the third of September, at a
time when this series was completed but the report not yet written, you
were in Buchenwald, according to this diary, visiting Ding. Did you talk
about this matter then?
A. This entry is apparently correct. This was the period in which Block
50 was being prepared for the production of the vaccines. Ding writes in
one of his documents that on the 10th of August this block was occupied
and that work in producing the vaccine was begun. Kogon corroborated
that in his testimony. Then 3 weeks after the beginning of this work, I
went to Buchenwald to look over the laboratory and to see how his work
was getting along. Kogon also described at some length how I inspected
the institute, how I went into every room. It was a rather extensive
inspection. I asked many questions, had many conversations with the
inmates there; he further testified that I was with Ding in his room for
only a very brief period of time, and that is also correct. In other
words, at that time he did not submit any material to me.
Q. Did you know anything else about this experimental series VII?
A. This series was carried out with a vaccine similar to the Behring
vaccine, manufactured by a different firm. I knew nothing of this
experimental series.
Q. I submit to the Tribunal as the next document, Mrugowsky 12, and I
put it in evidence as Mrugowsky Exhibit 25. This is an affidavit by Dr.
Karl Ludwig Wolters of Hamburg, from the Asid Works. After the customary
introduction the statement reads:
“The above person requested the notary to draw up an affidavit
and declared and deposed the following under oath and after
having been duly informed of the meaning of an affidavit:
“1. The production of typhus vaccines based on the egg culture
process began as early as 1941. Later on, the prescribed process
according to Gildemeister and Haagen was introduced.
“2. Experiments on animals for the purpose of testing the
manufactured vaccines were taken up simultaneously with the
beginning of the production and were carried out continuously.
The results of the animal experiments were not always clear. The
vaccine tolerance was tested by protective vaccinations of
employees; all employees connected with the typhus department or
who came in contact with employees working therein, were
vaccinated. In addition, all other employees had the privilege
of receiving protective vaccination against typhus on demand and
without charge. In the course of time, about one thousand
employees were vaccinated against typhus.”
To figures 3 and 4 I simply draw the attention of the Tribunal. Figure 5
reads:
“5. As far as I know, there was no correspondence between the
firm of Asid, Serum Institute G.m.b.H., Dessau, on the one hand,
and the former Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS, or the
Institute for Typhus and Virus Research at Buchenwald, or its
chief, Dr. Ding, or the Grawitz Agency, on the other hand.
“6. I made the acquaintance of Dr. Ding during a trip from
Berlin to Krakow.
“7. I could not say how the test of the typhus vaccines in
question materialized. In any case, as far as I know, I never
discussed that question with Professor Mrugowsky, nor did I
forward the vaccines to him for testing. It is quite possible
that the vaccines reached Dr. Ding through Professor
Gildemeister of the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin, who
received them in his capacity as expert consultant of the
Ministry of the Interior for the fight against epidemics.
“8. During a discussion with Professor Mrugowsky in the Hygiene
Institute of the Waffen SS in Berlin, I only talked about
general questions of hygiene concerning the occupied eastern
territories, and I asked for assistance in the work of
developing the serum institute at Kiev. At the same time, the
organization of delousing by the Asid Serum Institute
Koenigsberg was discussed. There also may have been discussion
of general questions in connection with active immunization,
especially against scarlet fever, diphtheria, and tetanus.”
Then there is the usual conclusion and signature.
It can be seen from this that the vaccines for this series did not go
via you from Ding; is that true?
A. Yes.
Q. According to Dr. Ding’s work report, which is Document NO-571,
Prosecution Exhibit 285, you were present with him on the 3d of
September in Buchenwald. Did you visit Block 46?
A. Yes. Ding invited me to take a look at Block 46. I went over there
with him; and I remember quite well that I was led to the lower floor of
a stone building, where there were a number of room-like partitions.
In the first room there were a few men playing cards; Ding told me that
these were typhus convalescents who had survived typhus and who were to
be released. I talked to them and found that their state of health was
good and that the usual after-effects of typhus were no longer in
existence. There were about five or six persons.
In the second room I saw about three patients lying in bed. I examined
them and spoke to them. They had been transferred to Buchenwald a short
time before from other camps. I think one of them was ill even when he
arrived and the others had fallen ill shortly after their arrival in
Buchenwald, and then were transferred to the typhus station. We are here
concerned with people who fell ill spontaneously. According to Ding’s
entry, there was no series of experiments carried on at that time.
Q. When visiting Buchenwald, didn’t you talk to Dr. Ding about his
various series of typhus experiments?
A. No. At that time he had concluded the experimental series number VII
with Asid vaccines as I can see from this document. This was a series
which had a number of fatalities as its result. It is in line with
Ding’s character that he did not speak to me about such a series of
experiments, since he knew what my basic attitude towards this question
was.
Q. Didn’t you discuss the typhus experiments with Ding on the occasion
of your visit?
A. No. We didn’t discuss that matter. Our conversation merely dealt with
the work carried on in Block 50 for the production of vaccine, which was
really the purpose of my visit. I think we discussed a number of other
hygienic questions concerning the vicinity of Buchenwald. I knew that
there was a lack of water there from my previous activity; and I am sure
that this was a subject which was discussed. I spent the evening with
Ding in his flat where I met Dr. Hoven, the camp physician of
Buchenwald, and his wife. Mrs. Ding was there, too. It is a matter of
course that we didn’t discuss any technical questions in that circle. We
certainly did not speak about any experiments on human beings.
In this connection I may perhaps say that this was the only time that I
saw Hoven, who was allegedly Ding’s representative. This was ten days
before Hoven had to end his activity as a camp physician in Buchenwald.
Q. Were you of the opinion that the typhus experimental series had been
concluded?
A. Yes. I held that opinion, since it becomes evident from the documents
here that the experimental series of that time had not led to any
disease. The reason was that the strain coming from the Robert Koch
Institute was not pathogenic. Ding did not say that he sent any reports
to Berlin about it; and I, therefore, did not know anything about the
way he worked in Buchenwald as far as it did not concern Block 50. I was
of the opinion that after the second series of experiments, which was
concluded at the end of 1942, no further experiments were planned.
Q. Well, if you believed that the typhus experiments had been concluded,
the main activity of Dr. Ding would also have had to come to a
conclusion?
A. No. That is not the case. Seen from my point of view, he was a
bacteriologist; and I was anxiously awaiting the end of this special
mission by Grawitz when Ding would again be fully at my disposal. At
that time, in 1943, he had to carry out the preparations for vaccine
production at Buchenwald. Therefore, the building work had to be
supervised. Block 50 was a bacteriological institute furnished in a very
modern style with a number of special pieces of equipment. Animals had
to be obtained and accommodation made ready for them. There was not only
one kind of animal but four different kinds. It was necessary to obtain
fodder for them. Then a number of other organizational activities were
necessary, which made Ding’s stay in Buchenwald absolutely necessary.
Q. Ding maintains that he sent a report about the series number VIII of
the typhus experiments. Did you see that in Berlin? It was to have been
sent on the 13th of June 1944.
A. Well, I heard about this series of experiments only by looking at the
document here. I hadn’t seen or heard of it before.
Q. In the last entry of his diary, Ding says: “By order of the Chief
Hygienist of the Waffen SS, dated the 12th of August 1944, it was to be
established whether the course of a typhus illness can be mitigated by a
typhus vaccine through intravenous or intramuscular injections.” Did you
ever issue such an order?
A. No. I repeatedly pointed out that on the basis of the entire
organizational set-up of the Medical Institute of the Waffen SS, neither
as the Chief of the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS, nor as the
consulting hygienist of the Reich Physician SS and Police, could I order
any experiments to be carried out on inmates because I had just as
little influence on the medical service of the concentration camp as any
other member of the Waffen SS. The matter with which we dealt was
completely different. In the Crimea, in one of the hospitals in the
East, I saw that the internist there was treating typhoid illnesses with
injections of dead typhoid vaccines; and this procedure resulted in
fever in many of the cases. At that time I remembered that literature
dating back to the last World War, when a number of papers were written
on the very same subject, showed that there were similar methods in the
treatment of typhus and typhoid entailing the injection of vaccines.
During the course of these years when I had to deal closely with,
typhus, I had developed a very definite opinion about the origin and
development of typhus. I was, therefore, of the opinion that in the case
of this illness, which clinically is very close to para-typhus, it would
be quite feasible to make an experiment with that kind of treatment. The
clinical symptoms of typhus and typhoid and stomach typhus are very
similar. If a cure can be achieved with one method, it is to be assumed
that all other types of illnesses of that nature could also be treated
with success using that method. After my return, therefore, I
established contact with a number of internes belonging to the hospitals
which I knew, and wrote them that I had gathered, like experiences. I
quoted passages from literature on that subject, and I said that our new
experiences were the same as our old. I made the suggestion that the
same method be used in the case of typhus by injecting with a protective
typhus vaccine. One might consider that at that time we had just as
little means of combating the severe disease as we have today. We,
therefore, were medically justified in searching for new methods of
treatment.
Q. Were these to be a series of experiments in the sense in which Ding
carried them out?
A. That is completely out of the question. There was no reason to do
that at all. In order to perform such an experiment, one could make
tests on a typhus inflicted person using this method, and the worst that
could happen would be that it would not help; but it certainly would not
be necessary to make a certain series of experiments, and I certainly
never gave any such order.
Q. Did you write to Ding in that sense?
A. At that time I informed my assistants about this therapy in the case
of contagious diseases, and I am sure that it was a matter of course
that, as epidemic specialists, we had to be informed about such a
possibility, and in this manner we also received knowledge of it.
Q. You were saying that there would not have been justification for the
experimental theory?
A. No.
Q. Well, did you or did you not order such a series of experiments from
Dr. Ding?
A. Never, at no time.
Q. Are you of the opinion that Ding started these experiments on his own
initiative?
A. That is possible. At any rate he did not receive orders from me, and
I don’t know where else he could have received an order.
* * * * *