_CROSS-EXAMINATION_
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MR. MCHANEY: Let’s go back to the malaria experiments. What contact did
you have with Schilling in 1941?
DEFENDANT ROSE: During my direct examination I testified that in 1941 I
saw reports about Schilling’s malaria work in Italy on behalf of the
Italian Government and with the support of the Reich Ministry of the
Interior; then, either at the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942, I
gave an opinion, a written opinion, on an application which Professor
Schilling had sent to State Secretary Conti, or rather to the Reich
Ministry of the Interior. Then I saw Professor Schilling personally in
1941. I am not certain whether he was in Germany again at that time, but
I can’t deny it with certainty under oath, because after all that was 6
years ago.
Q. Did you supply him with any material while he was working in Italy?
A. No, nothing.
Q. Who was Fraeulein von Falkenberg?
A. You mean Fraeulein von Falkenhayn?
Q. No, I mean Fraeulein von Falkenberg.
A. I don’t know any Fraeulein von Falkenberg.
Q. You are sure you didn’t supply Schilling with any material in 1941?
A. I cannot remember it. It might have been done by my department
without my knowledge. Then, of course, I would take the responsibility
for it, but I did not learn of it until now. My assistants did not tell
me anything about it, if it happened. If you can prove it happened, I
shall, of course, assume responsibility for it, even if it was done
without my knowledge.
Q. Well, it is not terribly important, but let us let you have a look at
Document NO-1756. In the meantime, when did this incident occur about
your giving material to Schilling, after he had set up his institute at
Dachau?
A. I beg your pardon, I didn’t understand your question.
Q. When did you give Schilling material, after he had gone to Dachau?
A. I cannot give any information about that myself. I have to depend on
the testimony of my assistant, von Falkenhayn, and my secretary, Block.
My secretary, Block, testified here that it was the end of 1941, but I
would assume that she is mistaken about that, since Fraeulein von
Falkenhayn testified that this material was given in the year 1942. I
think the latter is more likely.
Q. Document NO-1756 will be marked as Prosecution Exhibit 486 for
identification.
Q. Isn’t there a Fraeulein von Falkenberg mentioned in this letter of
yours to Schilling, dated 3 February 1941?
A. No. In the German copy of the document which you showed to me, it
says Fraeulein von Falkenhayn.
Q. That is a mistake then in the English translation.
A. Fraeulein von Falkenhayn was an assistant in my department. She had
formerly worked for Professor Schilling. There is an affidavit from her.
Since I have this letter I can give you some information about the
matter. Professor Schilling wanted to have a serological reaction in
malaria, the so-called Henry reaction; that is a reaction which is
carried out for the purpose of malaria diagnosis. As in the antigen
reaction, in this reaction also the spleen of dead persons is used.
Professor Schilling apparently wrote to me to find out whether I, as
head of the tropical medical department, was in a position to obtain a
spleen from a corpse where the patient had died of malaria. I answered
saying that such material would hardly be available in Berlin. Malaria
was very rare in Berlin and consequently deaths from malaria were also
very rare. The only cases of this type occurred in insane asylums, in
the treatment of paralytics. It is well known that the first work of
Wagner-Jauregg shows that in the course of malaria treatment paralysis
deaths occur, just as death occurs following operations, and such
malaria deaths, of course, occurred in Berlin insane asylums. As far as
I can remember the matter, my assistants contacted various pathological
institutes in Berlin and asked that if such an autopsy should occur
there, the spleen should be preserved so that it could be sent to
Professor Schilling. This was what this letter was about.
Q. Did you ever supply any to him?
A. As far as I can recall, in the course of several months, one or two
such cases occurred and the material was sent to Schilling, but I cannot
say for certain today.
Q. Well, you are now qualifying at least the answer you gave to my
earlier question as to whether you gave him any material in 1941; isn’t
that right?
A. I beg your pardon. I didn’t understand the question.
Q. I say you now wish to qualify the answer you gave me a few moments
ago, before you saw the letter, to the effect that you had not given him
any material in 1941. You now, after having seen the letter, state you
did in fact give him some.
A. Yes. I am sorry. My attention was entirely devoted to the question of
the malaria parasite strains and mosquitoes. I did not think of
negotiations between Schilling and the pathological institute in Berlin.
Q. Let’s go back to what we were discussing. You stated that although
Frau Block said that the malaria eggs were supplied to Schilling in the
latter part of 1941, you think probably it was 1942?
A. Yes. That is what I said. Perhaps I may correct myself. When you
speak of malaria eggs you mean anopheles eggs probably. There are no
malaria eggs.
Q. Yes, that is right.
A. I am inclined to agree that von Falkenhayn and Block think
differently. I think that von Falkenhayn was right and that it was in
1942.
Q. Did you know anything about this before it was sent?
A. I cannot remember it. I don’t believe so. As far as I remember I was
informed of it by Fraeulein von Falkenhayn, after I had been given a
letter from Professor Schilling that the mosquitoes were thriving in
Dachau.
Q. Did you thereafter issue orders that no more material was to be sent
to Schilling; is that right?
A. I did not issue a precise order. I said that since we ourselves were
using so many mosquitoes I didn’t want any more material to be sent to
Mr. Schilling because I was not convinced of the scientific value of his
work. But Fraeulein von Falkenhayn in her testimony says that there was
further correspondence with Fraeulein Lange. I have not been able to
find this correspondence and I can’t clear up the question completely. I
have to rely fully on my assistant in this respect and I can’t answer
from my own knowledge. In our first conversation on the subject when I
told you that Schilling got anopheles eggs from us, which you didn’t
know at the time, I did not tell you that he got a malaria strain from
my department. I didn’t know that at the time. I learned it only a short
time ago from Fraeulein von Falkenhayn. That was not in the affidavit.
Apparently she was afraid of some objections and sent a letter to that
effect to my lawyer. I am not so timid. I am not afraid to tell you
about it.
Q. In other words you did supply a Rose strain to Schilling?
A. No. As I said on direct examination, the Rose strain could not come
from my department because we didn’t have any strain with the name Rose.
Where this strain with the name Rose comes from is a puzzle to me. I
don’t know of any Rose strain in malaria literature. But I don’t think
there is any point in quarreling about this name. The information given
by Fraeulein von Falkenhayn, which I believe fully, that a malaria
strain was sent—that is quite sufficient—no matter whether it is
called Rose or some other name.
Q. Your witness, Frau Block, testified you had no correspondence with
Schilling in 1942 and 1943, as I recall. Is that right?
A. That is what Frau Block said. I myself would not have been so
definite in my testimony if you asked me the same question. I would say
I can’t answer that question definitely. I only know one thing, that I
never corresponded with Professor Schilling on the subject of his work.
Whether Schilling and I ever exchanged letters in those years I don’t
know, since I don’t have my files. Concerning any information about such
infrequent correspondence and whether he wrote a certain letter 5 or 6
years ago, he says, “I would like to look that up in my files.”
Unfortunately I cannot do so but perhaps you would be kind enough, if
you have copies of such a letter, to make it available to me. You have
my files and they are much more easily available to you than to me. For
example, I am trying to find my malaria opinion from the year 1941. That
was in the same filing cabinet from which you got the record of the
typhus meeting on 29 December 1941 in the Ministry of the Interior.
Q. You overestimate the prosecution, Herr Professor, but we needn’t
dwell on that. Now, is your memory good enough to tell us how long you
continued to furnish Schilling with material for his Dachau experiments?
You say that somewhere along in 1942 you told them not to send any more.
Are you clear about it?
A. Yes, I think I can remember reliably.
Q. Well, when did this malaria strain go down?
* * * * *
A. I don’t know. Fraeulein von Falkenhayn merely told me that the
malaria strain was given to Schilling. I don’t know when. She didn’t
mention that in her letter to Dr. Fritz.
Q. Let’s look at Document NO-1752. This will be marked as Prosecution
Exhibit 487 for identification. Suppose you read the letter aloud,
Professor?