Mr. WHEELER. Will the witness state his name, please.
Mr. LAWRIE. My name is Jack Lawrie, Jr.
Mr. WHEELER. Will you spell the last name.
Mr. LAWRIE. L-a-w-r-i-e.
Mr. WHEELER. When and where were you born, Mr. Lawrie?
Mr. LAWRIE. I was born in 1921 in the city of Casper, Wyo.,
July 12.
Mr. WHEELER. And what is your educational background?
Mr. LAWRIE. My education background is one of having graduated
from grade school in the city of Seattle, and also Franklin High School
in the city of Seattle.
And at this point I would like to raise a point of order.
Mr. MOULDER. I would like to ask you a question.
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. LAWRIE. I would still have a point of order here that is
in the rules of procedure, and I think the committee would certainly be
interested in their own rules of procedure. And I would like to read
article No. 10, which deals----
Mr. MOULDER. Will you answer my question first?
Mr. LAWRIE. Deals with rights of a person affected by a
hearing. I am certainly affected by the hearing.
Mr. MOULDER. I asked you a question if you are now or have
ever been a member of the Communist Party. You may answer. Then you may
have a point of order to raise when you answer to that question.
Mr. VELDE. If he answers the question instead of refusing to
answer.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. LAWRIE. I am going to have to decline to answer that
question. And the reason I am declining to answer that question is
that, due to the many oppressive and repressive laws, both on the
Federal and State level, I am going to invoke the first amendment and
also the fifth amendment.
I would like to be able to read the first and fifth amendments from
the Constitution of the United States. I believe we have a good
Constitution, and I am sure--or at least this committee claims they are
interested in the Constitution, and upholding the rights.
So I would like to read from the Constitution of the United States at
this time.
Mr. MOULDER. That won’t be necessary. We are familiar with
the provisions of the Constitution. You have declined to answer on the
first and fifth amendment.
Do you have any questions, Mr. Wheeler?
Mr. WHEELER. Would you relate briefly to the committee your
employment record?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. LAWRIE. You stated previously that you would give me a
point of order if I answered the question.
Mr. MOULDER. You didn’t answer the question.
Mr. LAWRIE. I responded; I certainly responded to the question.
Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Wheeler, repeat your last question.
Mr. WHEELER. Would you relate briefly to the committee your
employment record?
Mr. LAWRIE. That was not the question that was put to me.
Mr. WHEELER. It is the last question I asked.
Mr. MOULDER. This question is now being propounded to you.
Mr. LAWRIE. That was not the question that he asked me to
answer, and that I would get my point of order.
Mr. VELDE. I think I can clear up the matter. The question
he is referring to is the chairman’s question as to membership in the
Communist Party at the present time or at any time in the past. And
I think the Chair very well stated that if you answered the question
instead of refusing to answer, invoking the first and fifth amendments,
then you would be given an opportunity, as you put it, to make a point
of order, which is not within your rights at all.
But now will you answer the question as to whether you were a member of
the Communist Party or are now a member of the Communist Party? Let’s
put it a different way. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. LAWRIE. I still would like to raise my point of order, and
I think that I have that right, because, after all, this is your rules
of procedure, and I think you would be interested in it, interested in
that question. I didn’t write the rules of procedure. You gentlemen
were the ones that helped to draw that up.
Mr. VELDE. The chairman gave you a great privilege by allowing
you to answer the question “Yes” or “No,” and then by giving you the
right to spout off about our rules and regulations, which we know very
well. And we know about the Constitution.
Now it seems to me that any person who is interested in preserving the
Constitution against encroachment from our prospective enemies would be
willing to answer the question as to whether or not he was a member of
the Communist Party or ever had been a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. LAWRIE. As I stated before, I still think that, as you
pointed out, you are interested in the Constitution. And I certainly
think you should grant a witness here, after all, that is here at
your own invitation--not at his own request--he certainly should be
granted the right to raise a point of order, and if the committee feels
that--in my opinion they should feel that a witness should be granted
that right.
Mr. MOULDER. Let me say you are a witness who has been duly
subpenaed here. You are under oath to answer certain questions. You
have the privilege under the Constitution to decline to answer.
We are not going to be engaged with you in an argument concerning the
Constitution or the rules of the committee.
Now certain questions will be propounded to you by Mr. Wheeler. You
have the right as an American citizen to claim privilege under the
Constitution, which I assume you are about to do. You are certainly
not going to be permitted to enter into a soapbox argument with this
committee.
Proceed, Mr. Wheeler.
Mr. WHEELER. Would you briefly relate your employment record
for the last 10 years?
Mr. LAWRIE. I don’t see any basis for the honorable
gentleman’s statement. I still think that I have the right to raise my
point of order.
Mr. MOULDER. You are directed to answer the question
propounded to you.