Mr. SWANWICK said, he hoped it would be referred to a select committee.
Mr. BLOUNT hoped it would not even be received by the House. Agreeably
to a law of the State of North Carolina, he said they were slaves, and
could, of course, be seized as such.
Mr. THATCHER thought the petition ought to be referred to the Committee
on the Fugitive Law. He conceived the gentleman much mistaken in
asserting these petitioners to be absolute slaves. They state that they
were slaves, but that their masters manumitted them, and that their
manumissions were sanctioned by a law of that State, but that a
subsequent law of the same State, subjected them to slavery; and if even
there was a law that allowed them to be taken and sold into slavery
again, he could not see any propriety in refusing their petition in
that House--THEY CERTAINLY (said Mr. T.) ARE FREE PEOPLE. It appeared
they were taken under the fugitive act, which he thought ought not to
affect them; they now came and prayed the House so to model that
fugitive act, as to prevent its affecting persons of their description.
He therefore saw great propriety in referring their petition to the
committee appointed to amend that act in another part; they could as
well consider its relation to the present case. He could not see how
there would be a propriety in rejecting their petition; they had an
undoubted right to petition the House, and to be heard.
Mr. SWANWICK was surprised at the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr.
BLOUNT) desiring to reject this petition; he could not have thought, nor
could he indulge the suspicion now, that the gentleman was so far from
acknowledging the rights of man, as to prevent any class of men from
petitioning. If men were aggrieved and conceive they have claim to
attention, petitioning was their sacred right, and that right should
never suffer innovation; whether the House ought to grant, was another
question. The subject of their petition had a claim to the attention of
the House. They state they were freed from slavery, but that they were
much injured under a law of the United States. If a law was ever made
that bore hard on any class of people, Mr. S. hoped that the door would
never be shut to their complaints. If the circumstance respecting these
people was as they stated, their case was very hard. He animadverted on
the atrocity of that reward of ten dollars offered for one of them if
taken alive, but that fifty should be given if found dead, and no
questions asked. Was not this, he said, encouragement to put a period to
that man's existence? Horrid reward! Could gentlemen hear it and not
shudder?
Mr. BLOUNT said, the gentleman last up was mistaken in calling the
petitioners free men; the laws of North Carolina, as he observed before,
did not suffer individuals to emancipate their slaves, and he should
wish to know what evidence there was to prove these men free, and except
that was proved, the House had no right to attend to the petition.
Mr. SITGREAVES, in answer to the gentleman last up, said he would
reverse his question, and ask what evidence he had to prove that these
men are not freemen; can he prove they are slaves? They have stated that
a law has been made in North Carolina with a view to affect their case,
and bring them again into a worse slavery than before; they want to know
whether they cannot obtain relief by their application to the Government
of the United States. Under these circumstances, Mr. S. wished to know
why their petitions should not be taken into consideration? Was there
any thing in these men, he asked, that should prevent every kind of
assistance being bestowed on them? Had they not an equal right to be
heard with other petitioners? He hoped the House would not only give
them a hearing, but afford them all the consolation of which their
unfortunate case was susceptible. If the House were obliged, through a
want of power to extend to the case, to object compliance with the
prayers, yet, he hoped it would be done with all due tenderness; before
hearing them, he thought it would be exceedingly unjust to decide. These
people may produce documents sufficient to obtain favorable attention;
therefore, it was impossible before they were heard to conceive whether
the House could constitutionally grant relief or not. He could see no
impropriety in referring it; the object of referring a case, was to
inquire into facts; thus, the committee prepared the way for discussion
in the House; and why the House should refuse to deliberate and discuss
this case, he knew not.
Mr. HEATH was clearly convinced these people were slaves, and therefore
hoped their petition would lie on the table. He would remind the
gentleman that, if they undertook this business, they would soon have
petitions enough of the same kind, and public business would be thereby
prevented. It appeared to him to be more within the jurisdiction of the
Legislature of that State; indeed, the United States had nothing to do
with it.
Mr. MADISON said, he should be sorry to reject any petition whatever, in
which it became the business of the House to attend; but he thought this
case had no claim on their attention. Yet, if it did not come within the
purview of the Legislative body, he thought, it might be suffered to lie
on the table. He thought it a judicial case, and could obtain its due in
a Court of Appeal in that State. If they are free by the laws of North
Carolina, they ought to apply to those laws, and have their privilege
established. If they are slaves, the constitution gives them no hope of
being heard here. A law has been passed to prevent the owners of those
slaves emancipating them; it is therefore impossible that any relief can
be granted. The petitioners are under the laws of North Carolina, and
those laws cannot be the interpreters of the laws of the United States.
Mr. SITGREAVES said, he was not prepared to deny that this petition is
in the situation the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) states; nor
was he prepared to prove that it came under the power of the General
Government; but he could see no kind of reason why it should not be sent
to a committee who should examine the case and report whether it
required Legislative interference, or whether it was a subject of
judicial authority in the country whence the petitioners came. Many
petitions, he said, were sent to the House, who referred them for
investigation to a committee, and many had been reported as being under
judicial power only, and as such been rejected here. If this underwent
the same order, and should be found to be of a judicial nature, the
committee would report so, and the House would honorably refuse it. This
he thought the only just method.
Mr. RUTHERFORD concurred with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, that this
memorial ought to be referred to a committee who would report whether
these people had been emancipated, according to a law of the State of
North Carolina, or not. The circumstances attending this case, he said,
demanded a just and full investigation, and if a law did exist either to
emancipate, or send these poor people into slavery, the House would then
know. He doubted not, every thing just and proper would be done, but he
hoped every due respect would be paid to the petition. In short, he was
assured every member in the House would wish to act consistently. This
case, from the great hardships represented in the petition, applied
closely to the nicest feelings of the heart, and he hoped humanity would
dictate a just decision.
Mr. GILBERT hoped the petition would be referred to the committee
proposed; he thought it laid claim to the humanity of the House. He
thought every just satisfaction should be given, and attention paid, to
every class of persons who appeal for decision to the House.
Mr. W. SMITH said, the practice of a former time, in a similar case,
was, that the petition was sealed up and sent back to the petitioners,
not being allowed even to remain on the files of the office. This
method, he said, ought to be pursued with respect to the present
petition. It was not a matter that claimed the attention of the
Legislature of the United States. He thought it of such an improper
nature, as to be surprised any gentleman would present a petition of the
kind. These men are slaves, and, he thought, not entitled to attention
from that body; to encourage slaves to petition the House would have a
tendency to invite continual applications. Indeed it would tend to
spread an alarm throughout the Southern States; it would act as an
"entering-wedge," whose consequences could not be foreseen. This is a
kind of property on which the House has no power to legislate. He hoped
it would not be committed at all; it was not a proper subject for
Legislative attention. He was not of the opinion of some gentlemen, that
the House were bound to sit on every question recommended to their
notice. He thought particular attention ought to be paid to the lateness
of the session; if this subject were to be considered, too much time of
the House would be devoured which was much wanted on important business.
Mr. THATCHER said, he was in favor of referring this petition. He could
see no reason which had been adduced to prove the impropriety of
receiving a petition from these people. The gentleman from North
Carolina (Mr. BLOUNT) is of the opinion that these people being slaves,
the House ought not to pay attention to their prayer. This, he said, was
quite new language--a system of conduct which he never saw the House
practise, and hoped he never should. That the House should not receive a
petition without an evidence to prove it was from a free man. This was a
language which opposed the constitutional freedom of every State where
the Declaration of Rights had been made; they all declare that every man
is born equally free, and that each has an equal right to petition if
aggrieved--this doctrine he never heard objected to.
The gentlemen from Virginia (Mr. MADISON and Mr. HEATH) had said, it was
a Judicial and not a Legislative question; they say the petition proves
it, and that it ought not to be attended to. Mr. T. said, he saw no
proof whatever of the impropriety of the House receiving it. There might
be some Judicial question growing out of the case; but that was no
reason, because it might possibly undergo a Judicial course, that the
General Government were not to be petitioned. The gentleman from South
Carolina (Mr. SMITH) had said, "that this was a kind of property on
which the House could not legislate;" but he would answer, this was a
kind of property on which they were bound to legislate. The fugitive act
could prove this authority; if petitions were not to be received they
would have to legislate in the dark. It appeared plainly that these men
were manumitted by their masters; and because a number of men who called
themselves legislators should, after they had the actual enjoyment of
their liberty, come forward and say that these men should not remain at
liberty, and actually authorize their recaptivity, he thought it
exceedingly unjust to deprive them of the right of petitioning to have
their injuries redressed. These were a set of men on whom the fugitive
law had no power, and he thought they claimed protection under the power
of that House, which always ought to lean towards freedom. Though they
could not give freedom to slaves, yet he hoped gentlemen would never
refuse to lend their aid to secure freemen in their rights against
tyrannical imposition.
Mr. CHRISTIE thought no part of the fugitive act operated against
freedom. He thought no good could be derived from sending the petition
to a committee; they could not prove whether they were slaves or not. He
was much surprised any gentleman in the House should present such a
petition. Mr. C. said, he was of the same opinion with the gentleman
from South Carolina (Mr. SMITH) that the petition ought to be sent back
again. He hoped the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. SWANWICK) would
never hand such another petition into the House.
Mr. HOLLAND said, the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. THATCHER) said,
"the House ought to lean towards freedom." Did he mean to set all slaves
at liberty, or receive petitions from all? Sure he was, that if this was
received, it would not be long before the table would be filled with
similar complaints, and the House might sit for no other purpose than to
hear them. It was a Judicial question, and the House ought not to
pretend to determine the point; why, then, should they take up time upon
it? To put an end to it he hoped, it would be ordered to lie on the
table.
Mr. MACON said, he had hearkened very closely to the observations of
gentlemen on the subject, and could see no reason to alter his desire
that it would not be committed. No man, he said, wished to encourage
petitions more than himself, and no man had considered this subject
more. These men could not receive any aid from the General Government;
but by application to the State, justice would be done them. Trials of
this kind had very frequently been brought on in all the different
courts of that State, and had very often ended in the freedom of slaves;
the appeal was fair, and justice was done. Mr. M. thought it a very
delicate subject for the General Government to act on; he hoped it would
not be committed; but he should not be sorry if the proposition of a
gentleman (Mr. SMITH) was to take place, that it was to be sent back
again.
Mr. W. SMITH observed, that a gentleman (Mr. THATCHER) had uttered a
wish to draw these people from their state of slavery to liberty. Mr. S.
did not think they were sent there to take up the subject of
emancipation. When subjects of this kind are brought up in the House
they ought to be deprecated as dangerous. They tended to produce very
uncomfortable circumstances.
Mr. VARNUM said, the petitioners had received injury under a law of the
United States, (the fugitive act) and not merely a law of North
Carolina, and therefore, he thought, they had an undoubted right to the
attention of the General Government if that act bore hard on them. They
stated themselves to be freemen, and he did not see any opposition of
force to convince the House they were not; surely it could not be said
that color alone should designate them as slaves. If these people had
been free, and yet were taken up under a law of the United States, and
put into prison, then it appeared plainly the duty of the House to
inquire whether that act had such an unjust tendency, and if it had,
proper amendments should be made to it to prevent the like consequences
in future. It required nothing more under that act than that the person
suspected should be brought before a single magistrate, and evidence
given that he is a slave, which evidence the magistrate could not know
if distant from the State; the person may be a freeman, for it would not
be easy to know whether the evidence was good, at a distance from the
State; the poor man is then sent to his State in slavery. Mr. V. hoped
the House would take all possible care that freemen should not be made
slaves; to be deprived of liberty was more important than to be deprived
of property. He could not think why gentlemen should be against having
the fact examined; if it appears that they are slaves, the petition will
of course be dismissed, but if it should appear they are free, and
receive injury under the fugitive act, the United States ought to amend
it, so that justice should be done.
Mr. BLOUNT said, admitting those persons who had been taken up were
sent back to North Carolina, they would then have permission to apply to
any of the courts in the State for a fair trial of their plea; there are
very few courts in which some negroes have not tried this cause, and
obtained their liberty. He agreed with the gentleman from Massachusetts,
on the freedom of these men to procure their rights; it did not appear
to him that they were free; true they had been set free, but that
manumission was from their masters, who had not a right to set them free
without permission of the Legislature.
Mr. KITCHELL could not see what objection could obtain to prevent these
people being heard. The question was not now, whether they are or are
not slaves, but it is on a law of the United States. They assert that
this law does act injuriously to them; the question is, therefore,
whether a committee shall be appointed to inquire on the improper force
of this law on the case of these men; if they are freemen, he said, they
ought not to be sent back from the most distant part of the United
States to North Carolina, to have justice done them, but they ought to
receive it from the General Government who made the law they complain
of.
Mr. K. said, he had not examined the force of the law on the subject,
and was not prepared to decide; there could be no evil in referring it
for examination; when the committee would report their opinion of the
subject and gentlemen be prepared to act on it.
On the question for receiving the petition being put, it was
negatived--ayes 33, noes 50.[9]
TUESDAY, February 7.
THOMAS SPRIGG, from Maryland, appeared, and took his seat.
_Increase of Salaries._
A bill was also received from the Senate for increasing the compensation
of the members of the Legislature and certain officers of Government;
which was read, and, on motion that it be read a second time, it was
carried, 33 to 30. It was accordingly read a second time.
The bill contemplates an advance of $5,000 to the present salary of the
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and $2,000 to the VICE PRESIDENT, to
commence on the 4th of March next, and continue for four years; and that
the members of the Senate and House of Representatives, the Secretary of
State, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of War, Attorney
General, Postmaster General, Assistant Postmaster General, Comptroller
of the Treasury, Auditor, Register, Commissioner of the Revenue,
Accountant of the War Department, the Secretary of the Senate, the Clerk
of the House of Representatives, and the principal clerks employed by
them, the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Representatives, the
Door-keepers and Assistant Door-keepers of both Houses, have an advance
of 25 per cent. upon their present compensation.
Mr. PARKER moved that the further consideration of this bill be
postponed till the first Monday in December next. He said they had
lately had the subject of augmenting the salaries of all the officers
here mentioned, except the PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT and themselves,
under consideration; and as they had resolved to refuse an advance to
others, he trusted they should also refuse it to themselves. He thought
the present an improper time to go into the subject.
Mr. HARTLEY wished the gentleman would consent to some day next week. He
could not say he was ready to agree to the whole of the advances
proposed, but he wished the subject to be taken into consideration, and
perhaps by the time he had mentioned they might have some further
information on the subject of our finances.
Mr. MACON said, the most regular way for the gentleman from Virginia to
obtain his object, would be to move to have the bill committed to a
Committee of the Whole, and made the order of the day for the 4th of
March.
Mr. PARKER made that motion.
Mr. HARTLEY hoped this motion would not be agreed to, as it was a sort
of manoeuvre to get rid of the subject, which he did not approve. He
would either have the bill negatived at once, made the order of some day
in the present session, or postponed till the next.
Mr. AMES said gentlemen had no doubt a right to govern their own votes
according to their own notions of propriety. No man had a right to
prescribe to another. His conscience was no rule to any other man. But
he thought he was authorized to say, they neither had nor claimed a
right to do a right thing in a wrong way. To agree to the motion
proposed, would be an insincere way of putting a negative upon the bill.
He trusted gentlemen who wished this would do it in a more direct way.
The compensation of the PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT could not be
augmented, he said, after they had entered upon their office; and to say
they would take up the subject for consideration at a time when their
powers would not exist, was an evasive manner, which he approved not. It
was an easy thing for gentlemen to say _no_ on the question, without
taking this circuitous way of putting an end to the subject.
Mr. VENABLE thought the view of his colleague would be answered as well
by a postponement to the 3d of March as to the 4th, and it would be more
orderly. Nor did he think this way of disposing of the business called
for the censure which the gentleman from Massachusetts had thrown upon
it. It was a question upon which that House had already decided by a
considerable majority. No new light had been thrown upon the subject,
and he thought it by no means disrespectful to postpone it. It was well
known that the effect of this motion would be a postponement for the
present session. This was what he wished; and if his colleague would
consent to alter his motion to the 3d of March, he should not hesitate
to vote for it.
Mr. PARKER had no objection to the motion standing for the 3d of March,
though he did not consider the motions for the first Monday in December
or the 4th of March as unparliamentary. He thought the salaries of the
PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT high enough. The salaries of some of their
public officers might at present be somewhat too low, but the time would
soon come when the price of living would become lower, and then they
would be fully adequate; and therefore he did not wish to see them
advanced at present.
Mr. BUCK was opposed to putting off the question till the time
contemplated by the present motion. To get rid of the subject in such a
way, would be descending from that state of independence which they
ought to preserve, and would have the appearance of a slight cast upon
another branch of Government. If they were prepared to meet the
question, they might as well meet it now as then. To agree to the motion
proposed, would show a degree of cowardice, and effectually put it out
of their power to consider and determine upon the subject. The Senate,
he said, had found sufficient reason to originate this bill, and he
thought, if it were only out of complaisance to them, the subject should
not be treated in the way proposed. It was said that this subject had
already been decided, but he did not think so. There had been no general
proposition for augmenting compensation. They had had the subject under
view partially, but he knew there were some members (he knew of one at
least) who voted against any partial advance, because they thought it
should be general. This was his motive. He thought all the officers of
Government were upon an equal footing, and therefore he voted against
advancing the salary of one and not of another--not because he thought
they were already sufficiently compensated; he did not think they were.
He wished, therefore, the subject for a general augmentation to come
under discussion. If he should be convinced an advance was improper, he
should give it up, and should be against putting the subject off to a
time when it could not be considered.
Mr. HARTLEY again urged the propriety of postponing for a shorter
period: he mentioned the 17th instant.
Mr. MACON said he was opposed to the bill _in toto_, and he considered
the motion of the gentleman from Virginia as meant to try the question.
He wished it to stand for the 4th of March, as at first proposed,
because, if it stood for the 3d, the subject might be called up and
acted upon on the last day of the session. He should therefore renew the
4th of March, because, if there were a majority who wished the bill to
be rejected, it was desirable that as little time as possible should be
lost upon the subject.
The question for postponing till the 4th of March was put and negatived,
46 to 45.
Mr. PARKER then moved to have it postponed till the 3d of March.
Mr. HENDERSON thought it more proper to postpone till the 3d than till
the 4th. He was ready, he said, to meet the question, either in a direct
or indirect way. He had made a calculation, and found that the advances
proposed would amount to from $100,000 to $110,000. Mr. H. believed our
finances were not in a state to admit of this addition to our expenses;
besides, he trusted every necessary of life would soon be reduced in
price, so as to render any advance of salary to our officers
unnecessary.
The question was put and negatived, 57 to 32.
On motion of Mr. HARTLEY, Friday week was proposed and negatived, there
being only 35 votes for it.
Mr. GALLATIN moved that the subject should be made the order for this
day. He said he had voted for postponing it till the 4th of March, with
a view of getting rid of it; but since it must be considered, he wished
it to be disposed of as soon as possible.
Mr. SITGREAVES proposed that it be made the order of the day for Monday.
The sense of the House was first taken for Monday and negatived, there
being only 41 votes for it. It was then put for this day and carried,
there being 58 votes for it.
WEDNESDAY, February 8.
_Election of President._
The SPEAKER informed the House that the hour was come at which they had
appointed to meet the Senate, for the purpose of counting the votes for,
and declaring the election of a PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES, and that the Clerk would inform the Senate they were
ready to receive them.
The Clerk accordingly waited upon the Senate, and the PRESIDENT and
members of the Senate soon after entered and took their seats, the
PRESIDENT on the right hand of the Speaker of the House of
Representatives, and the members of the Senate on the same side of the
Chamber; when the President of the Senate (Mr. ADAMS) thus addressed the
two Houses:
_Gentlemen of the Senate and of the House of
Representatives_:
The purpose for which we are assembled is expressed in the
following resolutions. [Mr. ADAMS here read the resolutions
which had been adopted by the two Houses relative to the
subject.] I have received packets containing the
certificates of the votes of the Electors for a President
and Vice President of the United States from all the
sixteen States of the Union: I have also received
duplicates of the returns by post from fifteen of the
States. No duplicate from the State of Kentucky is yet come
to hand.
It has been the practice heretofore, on similar occasions,
to begin with the returns from the State at one end of the
United States, and to proceed to the other; I shall
therefore do the same at this time.
Mr. ADAMS then took up the packet from the State of Tennessee, and after
having read the superscription, broke the seal, and read the certificate
of the election of the Electors. He then gave it to the Clerk of the
Senate, requesting him to read the report of the Electors, which he
accordingly did. All the papers were then handed to the tellers, viz:
Mr. SEDGWICK, on the part of the Senate, and Messrs. SITGREAVES and
PARKER on the part of the House of Representatives; and when they had
noted the contents, the President of the Senate proceeded with the other
States, in the following order:
FOR JOHN ADAMS.
North Carolina, 1
Virginia, 1
Maryland, 7
Delaware, 3
Pennsylvania, 1
New Jersey, 7
New York, 12
Connecticut, 9
Rhode Island, 4
Massachusetts, 16
Vermont, 4
New Hampshire, 6
--
71
FOR THOMAS JEFFERSON.
Tennessee, 3
Kentucky, 4
Georgia, 4
South Carolina, 8
North Carolina, 11
Virginia, 20
Maryland, 4
Pennsylvania, 14
--
68
FOR GEORGE WASHINGTON.
North Carolina, 1
Virginia, 1
--
2
FOR THOMAS PINCKNEY.
South Carolina, 8
North Carolina, 1
Virginia, 1
Maryland, 4
Delaware, 3
Pennsylvania, 2
New Jersey, 7
New York, 12
Connecticut, 4
Massachusetts, 13
Vermont, 4
--
59
FOR AARON BURR.
Tennessee, 3
Kentucky, 4
North Carolina, 6
Virginia, 1
Maryland, 3
Pennsylvania, 13
--
30
FOR SAMUEL ADAMS.
Virginia, 15
FOR OLIVER ELLSWORTH.
Rhode Island, 4
Massachusetts, 1
New Hampshire, 6
--
11
FOR SAMUEL JOHNSTON.
Massachusetts, 2
FOR JAMES IREDELL.
North Carolina, 3
FOR JOHN JAY.
Connecticut, 5
FOR GEORGE CLINTON.
Georgia, 4
Virginia, 3
--
7
FOR CHARLES COTESWORTH PINCKNEY.
North Carolina, 1
FOR JOHN HENRY.
Maryland, 2
All the returns having been gone through, Mr. SEDGWICK reported that,
according to order, the tellers appointed by the two Houses had
performed the business assigned them, and reported the result to be as
above stated.
The PRESIDENT of the Senate then thus addressed the two Houses:
_Gentlemen of the Senate and of the House of
Representatives_:
By the report which has been made to me by the tellers
appointed by the two Houses to examine the votes, there are
71 votes for John Adams, 68 for Thomas Jefferson, 59 for
Thomas Pinckney, 30 for Aaron Burr, 15 for Samuel Adams, 11
for Oliver Ellsworth, 7 for George Clinton, 5 for John Jay,
3 for James Iredell, 2 for George Washington, 2 for John
Henry, 2 for Samuel Johnston, and 1 for Charles C.
Pinckney. The whole number of votes are 138; 70 votes,
therefore, make a majority; so that the person who has 71
votes, which is the highest number, is elected President,
and the person who has 68 votes, which is the next highest
number, is elected Vice President.
The PRESIDENT of the Senate then sat down for a moment, and rising
again, thus addressed the two Houses:
In obedience to the Constitution and law of the United
States, and to the commands of both Houses of Congress,
expressed in their resolution passed in the present
session, I declare that
JOHN ADAMS is elected President of the United States, for
four years, to commence with the fourth day of March next;
and that
THOMAS JEFFERSON is elected Vice President of the United
States, for four years, to commence with the fourth day of
March next. And may the Sovereign of the Universe, the
ordainer of civil government on earth, for the preservation
of liberty, justice, and peace, among men, enable both to
discharge the duties of these offices conformably to the
Constitution of the United States, with conscientious
diligence, punctuality, and perseverance.
The PRESIDENT and members of the Senate then retired, and the House came
to order; when Mr. SITGREAVES made a report on the business, which was
read and ordered to be entered on the journals.
THURSDAY, February 9.
_Election of President._
Mr. SITGREAVES, from the joint committee appointed to confer with a
committee of the Senate on the subject of the election of a PRESIDENT
and VICE PRESIDENT, made a further report, viz: that they had agreed
with the committee of the Senate to recommend to the House of
Representatives the following resolution:
"_Resolved_, That the Clerk of this House be directed to
give, by letter, to the Vice President elect, a
notification of his election."
This resolution was agreed to; but some time afterwards, Mr. PARKER (one
of the committee) wished it to be rescinded, as he understood, though
the committee from the Senate had concurred in this mode of notifying
the VICE PRESIDENT of his election, the Senate would not agree to it,
but wished to follow the mode adopted on a former occasion, viz: a
message was sent from the House of Representatives to the Senate,
directing that the persons elected should be notified in such a manner
as they should direct. He wished, therefore, to prevent delay, the
resolution might be rescinded and a different one agreed to. This motion
occasioned a good deal of conversation. It was observed by the SPEAKER
that the resolution was already before the Senate, (where it seemed it
was not intended to be sent, as it was a distinct resolution of that
House, a similar one to which was proposed for the adoption of the
Senate by the joint committee.) It was at length, however, agreed to be
rescinded. Immediately after which a message was received from the
Senate, informing the House that they had disagreed to the resolution,
and appointed a committee of conference. The House accordingly took up
the message, and also agreed to appoint a committee of conference.
_Compensation to Public Officers._
Mr. PARKER then renewed his motion, and the House resolved itself into a
Committee of the Whole on the bill respecting compensations, Mr.
MUHLENBERG in the chair; when
Mr. PARKER moved to strike out the first clause. He thought it necessary
to make some additional allowance to the PRESIDENT, but he would do it
in a different way from that proposed. When the present PRESIDENT came
into office, he said, he had a quantity of furniture presented him,
which might now be nearly worn out, and be of little value. It might be
proper, therefore, to purchase new furniture for the gentleman just
elected. It would be also during the period of the present Presidency
that Government would remove to the Federal City, which would be
attended with a good deal of expense to the PRESIDENT. He should wish,
therefore, that a provision should be made for defraying that expense,
and also for the purchasing of new furniture, but he should be opposed
to the making of any addition to the salary at present.
Mr. HARTLEY spoke in favor of retaining the clause.
Mr. R. SPRIGG said he should vote against the proposed advance of
salary, and could not consent to any other mode of augmenting the
present compensation allowed to the PRESIDENT. He could by no means
agree to the plan proposed by the gentleman from Virginia; for, if they
were to renew the furniture of the PRESIDENT every four or eight years,
it would be found a pretty expensive business. That gentleman had also
mentioned the removal of the Government, as taking place during the next
Presidency; but, he said, the new election would happen about the time
of removing the Government, and provision for paying that expense might
be made at that time. He thought the salaries were already sufficiently
high, and that it would be with difficulty that money was found to pay
the present expenses of Government.
Mr. WILLIAMS was of opinion, on the score of economy, that it would be
better to advance the compensation of the PRESIDENT in the way proposed
by the present bill, and let him purchase his own furniture, than to
purchase new furniture, which, perhaps, when the Government was removed,
would not be suitable for his house in the Federal City. Mr. W. said he
was one of the committee on the subject of compensation, and they
endeavored to ascertain whether the twenty-five thousand dollars allowed
to the PRESIDENT were an adequate compensation. It was generally
believed it was not. They ought, he said, to enable their First
Magistrate to live in a style becoming his situation. All their
Executive officers should receive such salaries as would enable them to
see company agreeably to their rank, otherwise the respectability
attached to those offices would suffer greatly in the public opinion. He
hoped, therefore, the section would not be struck out.
Mr. BUCK said, as the motion now made was to try the principle, it would
be well to go into an examination of the subject. He said he had never
been a champion for raising salaries, or a stickler for lowering them;
but, as the subject was brought before them, he should cheerfully
declare his sentiments upon it. He conceived the true question to be,
whether it was right and just that they should augment the salaries of
the officers of Government and the members of the Legislature, or
whether the present compensations were just and adequate to the
sacrifices which they made in undertaking the business of Government.
Because he did not believe, with some other gentlemen, that they were to
estimate the compensations of their officers in proportion as money was
scarce or plentiful in the Treasury, nor did he believe there was a
real distress in Government for want of money; but their difficulties
arose from a difference of opinion in that House on the mode of raising
money. He believed there were persons who thought Government squandered
away the public money; that its officers divided the loaves and fishes
amongst them; and that the only way in which this profusion of expense
could be checked was by pursuing a system of direct taxation, which
would make the people feel the amount which they contributed to the
support of Government. He should not undertake to examine this
principle, nor deny that such facts might exist. It would be enough to
look at existing circumstances in our country, and see how far they
would apply. Our Government, he said, rested on public sentiment for
support, and must always be regulated by it. He was willing, he said, to
go all lengths with gentlemen in adopting a system of taxation
calculated to raise a permanent revenue. Nor was he apprehensive for the
result, when dictated by reason and justice.
Contemptible must be that state of Government, said Mr. B., where its
public officers are starved for want of a proper spirit in the people to
support them. Is America, said he, arrived at this melancholy state? If
she were, God forbid she should ever experience another revolution! Is
this all our boasted acquisition, in return for the struggle we have
made for our country? No; he denied the fact. America was not reduced to
that state which will not allow her to pay the expenses of her
Government, nor is she unwilling to pay them; neither is public
sentiment so debased as not to approve of any measure which shall be
taken to secure a handsome maintenance for our officers. There was no
occasion for hypocrisy in the business; he was willing to state the
whole truth plainly to his constituents. He should not think of telling
them they were giving too high salaries for their officers, when he
knew, that, owing to their insufficiency, they were diminishing their
own private fortunes. Nor did he wish to intrench on his own property in
serving the public; he believed there was no occasion for this. He
should, therefore, speak plainly to them.
Mr. B. said, he would inquire whether the present salaries were a
reasonable and just compensation for the services performed? In respect
to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, it was said that he had already a
large salary. He knew that twenty-five thousand dollars had a great
sound in the ears of many, but he trusted the people of the United
States not only possessed just views of Government, but that they also
possessed virtue to support the just measures of Government, and would
not consent that their Executive officers should be placed on such a
footing as to be looked down by officers from foreign countries who
moved in a lower sphere. Therefore, when they looked into the reason of
the thing, and found their present salaries were unequal to their
support, not in the style of splendor observed in foreign courts, but
according to the manner of living in Philadelphia, would they not be
willing to increase them? He believed they would.
The present PRESIDENT, he said, was a man of fortune, and never took
from the Government more than would support his table, either during the
war or during his Presidency. And what, he asked, did these expenses
amount to? To the whole sum allowed him by law. But were they always to
expect to have a PRESIDENT who would give his services to his country?
Or had the PRESIDENT set a bad example, by living in a style of
extravagance and splendor? He believed this was not the opinion of
Americans, or that of foreign countries. If, then, the present PRESIDENT
had lived upon his own fortune, and the whole of his compensation had
gone to defray the expenses of his table, if this compensation was not
advanced, how were future Presidents to come forward, to support the
same style? They could not do it without infringing on their own
fortunes. And do the citizens of the United States, he asked, wish their
First Magistrate to be placed in this situation? He could not think so.
He believed they meant to make ample provision for his support; and if
the present provision was found inadequate, they would condemn their
Representatives; they would say they did not support the dignity of
their country, if they neglected to advance it.
The same observations, Mr. B. said, would apply to the VICE PRESIDENT,
and to other officers of Government. He did not wish the salaries of
their officers to be such as should enable them to make fortunes out of
them, but he would have them sufficient to afford a handsome living.
Were they so at present? He believed not. It had been said, the other
day, that they could not afford to live in the same style with persons
who stood on the same footing with them before they went into office. He
could not say whether they were obliged to intrench on their own private
fortunes; if it was so, he asked if it were reasonable or just that they
should be so placed? It certainly was not; and, therefore, convinced as
he was that the people of the United States were willing and able to
support the expenses of their Government, and that they wished their
officers to have a just and reasonable compensation, which should not
only enable them to make a respectable appearance in the eyes of their
own citizens, but in those of foreigners, he should have no scruples in
giving his consent to the advances proposed.
As to the compensation allowed to the members of that House, here he had
knowledge; he could speak from experience. He could say that he had
diminished his income one thousand dollars a year since he had a seat in
that House. Did his constituents, he asked, wish this? He believed not.
They did not wish him to intrench on his private fortune while he was
serving them. They did not expect him to squander away their money in
profusion, nor did he; he lived in the most economical style; but they
wished his reasonable expenses to be paid. Besides, said Mr. B., were
the rates of compensation, when first established, established upon this
principle? He thought not. They were then thought to be a just and
reasonable compensation; and, if it was not then unreasonable, it could
not now be reasonable. Was it right, he asked, when every kind of labor
was higher by one third or one-half than at that time, that the
compensations allowed to persons employed by Government should remain
stationary? He could not conceive that this was either just or proper,
or that the citizens of the United States wished it.
If any conclusion might be drawn from the practice of individual States,
they would be warranted in making the proposed advance, since many of
their Legislatures had advanced the pay of their members. Indeed, he
believed the people were generally convinced of the necessity of
advancing the compensations allowed to the officers of Government and
members of the Legislature, under the present circumstances.
Mr. B. said he was not for making a permanent increase of salaries,
except to the PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT. He did not conceive that the
members of the Legislature ought to have more than was sufficient to
support them, without obliging them to infringe upon their own fortunes.
He wished the advance thereof to operate no longer than until the
present existing circumstances were removed; he should move, therefore,
to have the duration of this regulation for one year, instead of two, as
it was possible in the mean time the price of living might be so reduced
as to make the additional allowance no longer necessary.
Mr. RUTHERFORD said, if gentlemen reasoned together for a moment, they
would be convinced this measure was altogether improper and unjust. Our
present PRESIDENT, said he, is looked up to with reverence, as to
Cincinnatus, as a good republican. When the commissioners from the
Republic of Holland went to treat with Spain, they went in a style of
such simplicity as to command the greatest respect. They afterwards
appointed a Stadtholder, a man of great reputation and patriotism
doubtless, like our PRESIDENT; but, as soon as they suffered themselves
to lose sight of their simplicity and plainness of manners, and got into
the policy and splendor of Courts, they were enslaved by their
Stadtholder; for, within these few years, the office of Stadtholder has
been declared hereditary. What an extravagance is this; that a man
should be born a Stadtholder or a King! While the Roman people
maintained their simplicity of manners, while Cincinnatus was amongst
them, they were a happy people; but when they lost sight of their
plainness of manners, they lost sight of their happiness. Let us look at
our sister rising Republic, and observe how they are doing away all pomp
and pageantry in their Government and country, and aiming at a
simplicity of manners; but, said he, I fear we have not lost sight
sufficiently of kings, priests, and courts. This was his dread. It was
necessary to bound these ideas. Patriotism could not be purchased, and
should they despair of getting a man to fill the office of PRESIDENT
without they increased the salary? Must they hire a man for this
purpose? No, they should not be obliged to do this; there would always
be found men of abilities and patriotism to fill that office, without
any view to pecuniary advantage.
Mr. DENT said the question was to make an amendment by striking out the
first section. Being in favor of that part which contemplated the
addition of five thousand dollars to the salary of the PRESIDENT, and
opposed to any addition to that of the VICE PRESIDENT, he wished the
question divided, in order to accommodate his vote.
The Chairman said the motion was to strike out the whole section, and it
could not be divided.
The motion for striking out was then put and carried--56 members being
in favor of it.
_Election of President._
A message was received from the Senate informing the House that the VICE
PRESIDENT had laid before them the following communication:
_Gentlemen of the Senate_:
In consequence of the declaration made yesterday in the
Chamber of the House of Representatives of the election of
a President and Vice President of the United States, the
record of which has just now been read from your journal by
your Secretary, I have judged it proper to give notice
that, on the 4th of March next, at 12 o'clock, I propose to
attend again in the Chamber of the House of
Representatives, in order to take the oath prescribed by
the Constitution of the United States to be taken by the
President, to be administered by the Chief Justice or such
other Judge of the Supreme Court of the United States as
can most conveniently attend; and, in case none of those
Judges can attend, by the Judge of the District of
Pennsylvania, before such Senators and Representatives of
the United States as may find it convenient to honor the
transaction with their presence.
FRIDAY, February 10.
_Naval Policy: Purchase of a Site for a Navy Yard._
The next resolution which came under consideration, was that proposing
the purchase of a site for a navy yard.
Mr. PARKER doubted, from the spirit which seemed to be shown on this
occasion, that this resolution would not pass.
Mr. W. SMITH hoped this would be agreed to. Whatever gentlemen may now
think or determine on, it was probable we should at some time become a
naval power; and even with the most distant prospect of that, it would
show economy to prepare for it. He said it never could be too soon to
begin the business, and the most effectual method of procuring live
oak, and preserving it, was to take the earliest means to obtain, and
secure it, when obtained, for seasonable use. He read an extract from
the Secretary of War's report in support of the plan.
Mr. COIT said he was alarmed at the expense of this business. He saw in
the report the salaries of two persons already at Norfolk and
Portsmouth, for taking care of the timber, at 500 dollars each, 1,000
dollars. If they were to pay at this rate for overlooking the timber for
one ship, what might they expect would be the expense of a navy yard?
Mr. PARKER said, the persons to whom these salaries were paid, took care
of the timber at Norfolk and Portsmouth. It was necessary that some
person should look after it, or it should be disposed of; but, in case
the present resolution was agreed to, there would be no occasion in
future to pay these persons, as all the timber and other materials would
be stored in the navy yard. He said he had received an estimate from the
War Office of the expense which would be likely to attend the
establishment of a navy yard. The expense of 100 acres of land, and all
the necessary buildings, was estimated at 37,210 dollars.
Mr. NICHOLAS said, after having squandered so much money in getting
timber for these vessels, he thought some change of habit should take
place before they embarked largely in this matter. They had given twice
or thrice as much as the timber was worth, yet they were now called upon
to go on in the same course. It was not a time for going into this
business. If such a thing was even proper, two or three years could make
but little difference, and there could be little doubt but every thing
could then be bought at half price. This, however, was not his principal
objection. It was this: he did not want to see any such establishment; a
navy would never do any real good to this country, but would increase
the unhappiness of it. It would require large sums of money to support
it; its benefits were doubtful, and it might be of very mischievous
consequence to the nation.
Mr. SWANWICK said he entirely agreed with the gentleman from Virginia
(Mr. NICHOLAS) that there was a necessity for some change of habit; they
appeared to be getting that change at present, and whatever their habits
were at present, he supposed they would come right at last. Whatever
might be their opinion of the necessity of a naval force, the European
nations, he believed, would convince them of the necessity of it, if
they only gave them time enough.
It was an extraordinary thing to look at the progress of economy in that
House with respect to these frigates. In the first place, six frigates
were necessary; they were afterwards reduced to three, and because an
officer was appointed to take care of the timber left on hand, a
gentleman from Connecticut wondered that $500 should be so employed. A
motion had been made to confine the Executive to finish the hulls of the
ships only. This would have been a strange economy. Indeed, such
attempts were made at economy on this business as were never introduced
upon any other. The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. NICHOLAS) had observed
there was no use for ships at all. If the House were of that opinion,
such a resolution had better at once be come to; but the strange sort of
hesitating conduct which was adopted, exceeded all that he had heard of
in legislation.
Had gentlemen who declared these vessels to be of no use, contemplated
the situation of this country; that it depended wholly upon commerce for
revenue; that that commerce was now put in jeopardy, and that no
substitute had been found for the revenue thence arising? And would not
all this hesitation, whenever the subject of a navy came under
consideration, tempt European nations to continue their unjust
depredations upon our property at sea? It certainly would.
But even gentlemen who wished to confine themselves merely to the
finishing of the vessels at present, would not surely think it improper
for them to establish a navy yard, and to secure timber for future use.
Did those gentlemen consider what it was to deprive the country of a
rich mine of ship timber? If they hesitated on this subject, they surely
did not.
What had been said by the gentleman from Maryland on the subject of
Algiers, was very just; and the want of a navy power would have a
similar effect upon all our negotiations, as foreign nations would rise
or fall in their demands, according to our power at sea. The money
thrown away upon Algiers to purchase peace, would have been much better
employed in building ships; for if we had a few ships, that power would
not have committed the depredations upon us which she had done. And
whether the money was paid to Algiers or expended in building ships, it
was in both cases for the same purpose, viz: the protection of commerce.
But there was this great difference between the two expenditures. In the
one case, the dollars were shipped off to a foreign country, and in the
other, they were paid to our own citizens. The iron used was from our
own mines; the guns from our own manufactories; the hemp, and every
other material, were of our own growth and manufacture, so that the
money went into the hands of our artisans, manufacturers, and farmers.
And, therefore, though the frigates had cost a great deal of money, it
was some modification of the expense to consider that the money was gone
into the pockets of our own citizens. But, he asked if the loss we
sustained for the want of a naval power could be estimated? He said it
could not. We not only lost our property, but our seamen, and they were
not only lost to us, but were probably in the service of those countries
which were committing depredations upon us. The loss of property might
be recovered; but a hardy race of seamen once lost, could not be
recovered.
What an affecting spectacle had we the other day of sixty of these
unfortunate men returning from Algerine slavery? They were received into
the arms of their country with all the sympathy which the occasion
called for; but could gentlemen help feeling, at the same time, for the
impotence of our Government, when they recollected that the liberty of
these men had been purchased at a very high price from a petty despot?
And shall we continue to go on thus, and encourage the Barbary powers to
enslave our seamen by showing so great a reluctance to enter upon any
measure which might afford a defence against their depredations?
Mr. MURRAY believed it would be a very prudent measure to secure the
ship-timber in question; for if we did not, it was probable some foreign
nation would get possession of it. He did not know whether the laws of
Georgia would permit foreigners to purchase the land upon which this
timber grew; but if they would not, it would be no difficult thing to
get possession of it through the medium of an individual. If this
country were to become a maritime power, and no one who considered the
subject for a moment could doubt it, this was too rich a mine to be
neglected. What had been said about adopting the Chinese policy, might
serve to amuse them; but when they looked at the commerce of the
country, it was impossible they should not see the necessity of a naval
force to protect that commerce against the depredations of any nation
who chose to attack it. Indeed, it was come to this, they must either
provide for the protection of commerce, or deny the utility of it, and
give it up altogether.
But the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. NICHOLAS) was afraid if these
frigates were sent out to sea, they would involve us in a war. What!
said he, can it be supposed that three frigates would give us that
ridiculous kind of spirit which would induce us at any rate to go to
war? This would be a species of insanity which he did not think it was
probable we should fall into. No: these vessels would serve to protect
our coasts, and preserve our commerce from attacks, at least, within a
small distance from our own ports. How far they might serve to render us
of some importance in the eyes of foreign nations, he could not tell;
but he believed that three frigates would have a greater effect in this
respect with us, than ten to Sweden, Denmark, or Holland. We lie, said
he, near the high road of commerce to the West Indies, and these three
frigates, backed by national wealth, would show a disposition to become
a maritime power, and would have their effect upon European nations.
Besides, Mr. M. said, these vessels would be the foundation of a future
Navy. He was for shaping our means of defence to the means of offence
employed against us by other nations; for until the European nations
became wise enough to cease from war, it was necessary to provide means
of defence against their attacks. He should, therefore, always give his
support to every means of national defence. He wished our nation to
stand upon a respectable footing as a nation, since the most magnanimous
conduct was no security against the attacks of foreign powers. He
should, therefore, be in favor of a naval yard, and of providing
ship-timber for future use.
Mr. HARPER said, the two resolutions respecting a naval yard and a
provision for timber should come under consideration together; because,
if no provision was made for purchasing timber, a naval yard would be of
no use.
This question, he said, was capable of being considered under two points
of view: the one whether the measure was proper; the other, if the
measure was proper, whether it would not be better postponed for the
present. Both of these points required a considerable degree of
attention. There was a variety of considerations on both sides of the
question, and it remained for them to determine for the best.
Was it proper for this country, he asked, to turn its attention towards
marine strength? Did not our situation, and the circumstances in which
we stand, compel us to turn our attention to this object? He thought
they did, and for one or two reasons which he would submit to the
consideration of the committee.
It appeared to him out of the question that any kind of commerce should
be continued without some ships-of-war to protect it. This was the
dilemma in which we were placed. It was said by some gentlemen that this
dilemma might be avoided, by suffering commerce to go on unprotected,
and subject it to all risks; and that even then, there would be
sufficient benefit arising from it, to induce its continuance. This he
did not believe. If persons engaged in commerce could have no dependence
upon the protection of Government, a very few years, perhaps a few
months more, might convince them that the business could not and ought
not to be continued.
The present Government, he said, had only been in existence eight years,
and for nearly four of them commerce had been subject to every kind of
depredation. The usual calculation with respect to Europe was, that
during every ten years, it would be subject to war, and that these wars
would have a duration of from six to eight years, in the course of which
our property and citizens would be subject to the same violations and
injuries which they had for the last four years experienced, if no
provision was made, by a naval power, to prevent it.
Brought to this dilemma, said he, which side will you take? Will you
give up commerce, or build a Navy to protect it? Besides, he said, a
great part of our citizens who had been trained up in commerce from
their infancy, could not be driven from that kind of employment to which
they had always been accustomed. They could not be induced, like the
Chinese, to stay at home; they would be engaged in commerce, their
favorite pursuit. If they, then, were compelled to protect commerce, he
asked if there was any other way of doing it than by a Navy? He believed
not. Treaties afford a feeble and very inadequate protection; they were
broken whenever it suited the interest of a nation to break them.
Letters of marque might afford some protection; but this would operate
as a heavier tax upon the people than even the support of the Navy. The
money which a merchant expended in this way would eventually come upon
the people in the price which they would be obliged to pay for their
merchandise, and the means would be very inadequate to protection.
In China and the East Indies, Mr. H. said, the inhabitants could shut
themselves up within their own territory, and avoid any intercourse with
foreign nations. In countries so far removed from Europe, as to prevent
any one nation from making a monopoly, of its trade, this policy might
exist. But could America lay up her ships, and say she would open her
ports to all nations? No; that very instant you give up your trade to
that nation which has the greatest power at sea; for she will
immediately block up your ports, and oblige you to trade with them only.
In order, therefore, to trade with all nations, we must be the carriers
of our own produce, for other nations would not leave us at liberty to
do so. The strongest power would say to the others, you shall not trade
with these people, you shall do so and so, or we will go to war with
you. You must, therefore, said he, protect your own trade.
Will these resolutions, then, said he, if adopted, tend to this point?
He believed they would. To provide a dock-yard, and to take care of a
supply of timber suitable for the purpose of ship-building, were very
essential steps. Much expense, he said, would be saved in carrying on
the building of several ships together in one yard, instead of having
them scattered in different parts of the Union. Timber might also be
laid up to season in this yard, so as always to be ready for use; for,
he believed that much of the delay which had attended the building of
the ships now on the stocks, had been owing to the difficulty which had
attended the procuring of proper timber. Besides, Mr. H. said, its being
known to foreign nations, that you had provided a dock-yard, would have
some weight; it would at least have the appearance of an intention of
building a Navy.
With respect to the purchasing of land clothed with live oak timber, he
thought it a very desirable measure. It was well known that this timber
was confined to a few spots--a few sea islands on the coast of South
Carolina and Georgia, and some small strips along the seashore; and in
each of these places there were only a few trees of a sufficient size
for building large ships. The land upon which these trees grew, since
the cultivation of cotton had been introduced into those parts, was
become valuable land for that purpose. This induced the people to cut
down the timber and burn it, for the sake of getting the land, and there
was no way of arresting this practice, but by securing the land; and
being of so good a quality, when the trees were cut down, it would
probably sell for a greater price than was originally given for it.
Mr. GALLATIN saw no connection between the two resolutions, which the
gentleman who had just sat down thought it necessary to connect
together. The last resolution proposed the purchase of land clothed with
live oak; the present proposed the appropriation of a sum of money for
purchasing the site of a naval yard, &c., as a foundation for a Navy.
The last went only to the securing of timber for the building of a Navy,
if at any day it should be thought necessary; he believed he should vote
for the last, but certainly against the first.
They had been told that no commerce could exist without protection, and
that that protection must be a Navy; from whence it would follow, that
if a Navy was necessary to protect commerce, it must be a Navy competent
to vie with the navies of other nations. He would here ask, how
gentlemen drew their conclusion, that commerce could not exist without
the protection of a Navy. He wished they would show from the example of
any nation in Europe, or from our own example, that commerce and navies
had gone hand in hand. There was no nation, except Great Britain, said
he, whose Navy had any connection with commerce. No nation, except
England and Holland, had more to do with commerce than this country, and
yet we had no Navy; and though for the four last years this commerce had
been subject to continual depredations, it was not exceeded by any
nation, except the two he had named. And if they looked to Europe, they
would find there was no connection between navies and commerce. Russia
and Sweden had considerable navies, but little commerce; whilst Holland,
whose Navy was by no means large, ranked next to England with respect to
commerce. Hamburg, he said, was one of the first commercial States in
Europe, yet she had no Navy. Navies, he said, were the instruments of
power, more calculated to annoy the trade of other nations than to
protect that of the nation to which they belong.
But there was another position which he should take in opposition to
gentlemen who supported the creation of a Navy, viz: that however useful
or desirable a Navy might be, this country was not equal to the support
of one. We might have two or three frigates indeed, but, when he said we
could not support a Navy, he meant to say we could not support such a
Navy as should claim respect, in the sense which those gentlemen spoke
of it; such as being an object of terror to foreign nations. If they
calculated what the three frigates had cost, considered the scanty
manner in which this country was peopled, our inability to raise any
very large revenue, and the high price of labor, the truth of this
assertion would appear evident.
Again, if such a Navy were created, how was it to be manned? He wished
gentlemen to point out any mode in which a Navy could be manned in this
country without having recourse to the abominable practice of
impressment. If the nations of Europe found it impossible to man their
fleets without having recourse to these violent means, he believed it
would be impossible, without breaking down those barriers which secured
the liberty of every citizen, to man a Navy in this country.
Perhaps he might be asked, if we were, then, to be left without
protection? He thought there were means of protection which arose from
our peculiar situation, and that we ought not to borrow institutions
from other nations for which we were not fit. If our commerce had
increased, notwithstanding its want of protection; if we had a greater
number of seamen than any other nation, except England, this, he
thought, pointed out the way in which commerce ought to be protected.
The fact was, that our only mode of warfare against European nations at
sea, was by putting our seamen on board privateers, and covering the sea
with them; these would annoy their trade, and distress them more than
any other mode of defence we could adopt.[10]
MONDAY, February 13.
_Purchase of Live Oak Lands._
Mr. HARPER said, that though the House had declined coming to a
resolution to authorize the PRESIDENT to purchase certain lands in
Georgia, clothed with live oak and red cedar timber, as a reserve for
future naval purposes, yet there seemed to be a disposition to cause an
inquiry to be made on the subject. He therefore proposed a resolution to
the House to the following effect:
"_Resolved_, That the President of the United States be
authorized and requested to cause to be made and reported
to this House as early as may be after the meeting of the
next session of Congress, an inspection of lands furnished
with live oak and red cedar timber, with the relative
advantages of different situations with respect to their
fitness for naval purposes, and the rates at which
purchases may be made."
Ordered to lie on the table.
_John de Neufville._
On motion of Mr. MADISON, the House resolved itself into a Committee of
the Whole on the following report of the committee, to whom was referred
the memorial of Anna de Neufville, widow of John de Neufville, deceased.
They report--
"That the services and sacrifices of the said John de
Neufville to the United States, during the war of their
Revolution, as stated in the said memorial, and vouched by
the testimonies herewith reported, constitute a reasonable
claim, in behalf of his, at present, very distressed widow
and children, on the justice of the United States. That it
being impossible, from various and peculiar circumstances
incident to the services rendered, to ascertain and
liquidate the compensation due into a precise sum, it is
necessary for Congress to decide on and provide for such
allowance as may be deemed equitable and right. That, in
the opinion of the committee, the sum of three thousand
dollars may be a proper allowance. They therefore propose
the following resolution:
"_Resolved_, That provision ought to be made, by law, for
granting to the widow and two children of John de
Neufville, the sum of three thousand dollars, to be equally
divided among them."
This report was advocated by Messrs. HARPER, W. SMITH, SWANWICK, HAVENS,
HEATH, THATCHER, VARNUM, and RUTHERFORD. They stated that the husband of
the petitioner, John de Neufville, was an eminent merchant at Amsterdam;
that he was an influential character there, and, at an early period of
our Revolutionary war, entered with great zeal into the interests of
America; that, meeting with Mr. William Lee, the Commissioner of the
United States, he endeavored to bring about a treaty between the United
Netherlands and the United States, which being discovered by the
British, that Court used its influence with the Government of that
country to harass and drive him out of the country; that during his
residence at Amsterdam, his house was a constant asylum for American
citizens; that he had made large advances in money for the service of
the United States, which obliged him to extend his credit beyond what
was warranted by the regular course of trade, and a failure in the
payment of which (owing to the embarrassed circumstances of the United
States at that time) had greatly injured him, and left him to the mercy
of his creditors. The consequence was, he was reduced from affluence to
poverty at an advanced period of life. Some years ago he arrived at
Boston with his wife and two children, where he subsisted in a very
humble manner upon the bounty of his friends in Holland; those friends
having, by the reverses occasioned by the Revolution, been much injured
in their property, could afford him but a scanty pittance; but Mr. de
Neufville being dead, the petitioner was deprived of this assistance;
and, to add to her repeated misfortunes, the son of her late husband,
from their multiplied sufferings, had been deprived of his reason. Under
this pressure of grievances, the petitioner was come from Boston to lay
her case before Congress, and pray relief. This peculiarly distressing
case was supported with great zeal and feeling by its advocates,
particularly by Mr. HARPER.
The claim was opposed by Messrs. COIT, SWIFT, and NICHOLAS. An
application, it seems, was made by Mr. de Neufville, during his
life-time, for redress; upon which the then Secretary of State (Mr.
JEFFERSON) reported. This report, after stating all the facts upon
which the claim was founded, gave it as his opinion, that the petitioner
had no real claim on the United States. This report, it seems, had never
been acted upon. The reading of it, as well as of all the documents
relative to this claim, was called for, and they were accordingly read.
The opposers of this claim acknowledged the distressed situation of the
petitioner, but denied the justice of her claim upon the United States;
the treaty which Mr. de Neufville proposed to enter into with Mr. Lee,
they supposed, was a treaty which he believed would prove beneficial to
his country, and not to the United States: that there were many claims
in our own country from persons who had been injured by the war, the
justice of which was less equivocal, and the distress at least equal.
Mr. NICHOLAS said, a few days ago only, a poor man, whose health had
been so much impaired in the war, that he was unable to earn his living,
had applied to him to bring his case before Congress, yet, as the
pension law affords no relief to any person, except he had been wounded,
he was obliged to inform him that he could do nothing for him. There
were multitudes of such instances, equally distressing with the present,
to which no relief could be afforded.
Mr. THATCHER moved to have the three thousand dollars struck out, and
five inserted. This was negatived--45 to 37; but the resolution was
agreed to as reported--yeas 63, nays 25.
THURSDAY, February 16.
_John C. Symmes._
Mr. GALLATIN said, a report had been made upon the contract between John
C. Symmes and his associates, and the United States, which it was of
importance to pass into a law this session, as the object was four
hundred thousand acres of land, which was worth about eight hundred
thousand dollars.
The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on
the subject, when the report, which was very long, having been read, the
committee agreed to the resolution reported, which was in the following
words:
"_Resolved_, That a committee be appointed to bring in a
bill to authorize the President of the United States to
grant, in fee simple, to John C. Symmes and his associates,
that part of a tract of land, the boundaries whereof are
ascertained by a survey executed in conformity to the act
of Congress, entitled 'An act for ascertaining the bounds
of a tract of land purchased by J. C. Symmes,' and returned
to the Treasury Department the 10th of January, 1794, which
is not included within the bounds of a grant already made,
on September 8, 1794, to the said J. C. Symmes and his
associates; excepting and reserving out of the same the
lots reserved by the original contract, entered into
between the United States and the said Symmes and his
associates; provided that the said Symmes and his
associates shall previously, in conformity to the terms of
the original contract, make the requisite payment for the
tract to be granted to them, and for the 47,625 acres, part
of the grant already made to them on the 30th September,
1794, for which they have not yet paid any consideration;
and provided, also, that the township reserved for an
Academy shall have been previously laid off and secured,
according to the terms of the contract, and of the
resolutions and law of Congress relative thereto."
FRIDAY, February 17.
_Increase of Duties._