Mr. W. SMITH said, the proposed increase, it was calculated, would raise
110,000 dollars, and as the article was not liable to be smuggled, nor
its consumption to be decreased, it would be a certain, and he thought,
an eligible tax.
Mr. HOLLAND had no doubt but this tax would augment the revenue; but he
knew also that it would fall more upon the poor than upon the rich, and
he thought they ought not to add to their burdens. He thought there were
other articles which would bear some addition, but either brown sugar or
salt would be much felt. If they studied that which would be burdensome,
here they might fix, but he hoped this was not the principle. By
advancing an article so universally used, a rise of labor (already too
high) must naturally follow.
Mr. KITCHELL believed the rich and opulent would bear their portion of
this tax as well as the poor, as it would fall upon fine sugar as well
as upon brown. It would therefore be paid in proportion to the sugar
used, and would fall as equally as any other tax which could be laid.
In this instance, Mr. K. said, gentlemen seemed apprehensive of the poor
bearing too great a part of the burden; but, if the direct tax on land
were to take place, would it not, he asked, fall much heavier upon the
poor than a tax on sugar? He believed it would; since the poor who held
lands would be called upon to pay their portion of it, whilst the rich
who held no lands, would escape it. He, therefore, thought this a far
preferable tax.
Mr. DEARBORN said, if further revenue was necessary, he could not
conceive any article which would bear an advance of duty better than the
one proposed. The present duty, he said, was one and a half cent a
pound, and could it be supposed that to lay an additional half cent upon
it, could make much difference to the consumer, or that it would ever be
felt, or that, at the end of a year, it would be discovered whether one
and a half or two cents duty had been paid upon a pound of sugar? He
should have no objection, instead of half a cent, to lay an additional
cent upon this article. In various parts of the country, brown sugar was
retailed at from 12 to 20 cents a pound, the price being much increased
from the present distressed situation of the West Indies. But they would
find sugar of the same quality selling in one place for 12, in another
for 14 or 16 cents; therefore, whether the duty was one or two cents, he
did not think it would be felt by any body. It was true, that it was an
article used by the middling and lower classes of the people; but the
tax falling upon fine as well as brown sugar, all parts of the community
would bear an equal share in the burden.
Mr. WILLIAMS moved to strike out the half cent, and insert a cent. It
appeared to him that such an advance could not materially affect the
consumer. The people, it was true, might use less; but, if they did so,
as it was an article of luxury, every pound of sugar less which was
consumed, would be of benefit to the country, by keeping the money which
it cost in a foreign market at home. But he did not believe that this
would be the case; or that the proposed additional duty would increase
the price of labor, as had been suggested. He believed the price of
labor would be regulated by the price which the farmer was enabled to
get for his produce. Whatever the farmer could afford to give his
laborer (especially in this country where agriculture is the true
interest) would fix the price of all other labor.
Mr. HOLLAND said, perhaps the constituents of the gentleman last up
might manufacture their own sugar, and therefore would not be affected
by this tax; but the greater part of his constituents were obliged to
use and purchase their sugar; and if it were a luxury, it was one he did
not wish to deprive them of, but that they might have it upon the same
terms as usual. He looked upon it as a necessary of life, already at too
high a price, and he should, therefore, oppose any advance of duty upon
it.
Mr. GALLATIN said, he and his constituents were in the same situation
with the gentleman from New York (Mr. WILLIAMS) and his constituents.
They manufactured almost the whole of their own sugar; very little
imported sugar was used; indeed, they sometimes exported sugar; but
though this reason seemed to act pretty powerfully upon the gentleman
from New York, it would not have the same effect upon him. Whenever a
measure operated partially upon other parts of the Union, though it
might operate in favor of his constituents, he should feel himself in
duty bound to oppose it. On the ground of their being Representatives of
the whole Union, as well as on the ground of policy, he did not believe
it was right to endeavor to throw a burden upon one part of the Union,
because the part in which they were most particularly interested, would
escape it. He hoped the amendment would be rejected, and after the sense
of the committee should have been taken upon it, he also would move an
amendment. At present, brown sugar paid one and a half cent a pound
duty, and molasses three cents per gallon. He should, therefore, move to
have an additional cent laid upon molasses, in order that the two
articles might be increased in the same proportion. He was against any
increase at present; but if the duty on one article was increased, the
other ought also to be increased.
Mr. WILLIAMS observed, that he had said the people in the part of the
country from whence he came, made their own sugar during the war; if
they were to make it now, it would cost them more than double the price
at which they might purchase it. He said, when the gentleman from
Pennsylvania (Mr. GALLATIN) found the land tax was not likely to pass,
he wished to defeat every proposition for an indirect tax. He had
attempted, therefore, to defeat an additional tax on sugar, by proposing
to add molasses to the resolution. He did not think this fair; he wished
every proposition to stand upon its own ground. A few days ago that
gentleman had insisted upon the necessity of laying a direct tax; but
now he came forward, and said no additional revenue was wanting. He
wished not to have a compulsory tax, but a tax which persons might pay
or not. If they did not like to pay the tax on sugar, they might do
without it.
Mr. COOPER said he was against any additional duty on salt or sugar,
though he and his constituents (as well as his colleague and his
constituents) should bear no part of the burden, as they made not only
sufficient for themselves, but for sale. Indeed, he said, a duty on salt
exported out of the United States, would produce revenue, as a
considerable quantity was sent into Upper Canada.
Mr. WILLIAMS denied that his constituents made any salt; they had no
salt but what paid duty; nor did his constituents make one-fourth of the
sugar they used; nor did he believe his colleague's (Mr. COOPER's)
constituents made one-half of the sugar they used, as he well knew that
a large quantity of sugar was sent to that district by way of Albany.
Mr. READ hoped the amendment would obtain. Although such persons as
lived at a distance from market manufactured their own sugar, and
consequently would be excused from this duty, yet they labored under
many disadvantages in other respects, on account of their remoteness
from market, and therefore he had no objection to their being excused
from the operation of this tax. He did not believe this tax on sugar
would fall upon poor persons. Farmers, indeed, used a little brown
sugar, but they would rather pay a little more for this article than
have their land taxed.
Mr. CLAIBORNE was against the amendment. If an additional duty of one
cent was laid upon brown sugar, the different dealers would make it
three or four, so that it would be materially felt.
Mr. GALLATIN then moved to amend the resolution, by adding an additional
cent per gallon upon molasses. At present the duty on brown sugar was
one and a half cent per pound, and on molasses three cents per gallon.
The advance of 33 per cent. on the present duty would be the same that
had been agreed to be laid upon sugar.
Mr. SWANWICK seconded the motion. The only way in which the tax on brown
sugar could be secured was by advancing the duty on molasses in the same
proportion, otherwise molasses would be used in the place of sugar, and
the duty would be evaded. But he would have gentlemen consider in what
situation they placed the revenue in respect to drawbacks. The person
who paid the duty was probably not the same who drew the drawback on
exportation; the United States run the risk, therefore, of paying the
drawback, without receiving the duty. Though he thought the tax on sugar
highly objectionable, yet if it were adopted, he thought it right that
it should be accompanied by a proportionate tax on molasses as a
security to the duty being paid. One cent a pound on sugar, it was said,
was a trifle; but it was well known that the price of that article was
at present very exorbitant, from the disorders which had taken place in
the West Indies.
Mr. NICKOLAS hoped the amendment would be agreed to. His principal
objection to a tax on sugar was, because, having been successful in
making one addition, it would be an argument for making future ones, but
if molasses was added to it, the tax would then fall more equally on the
poor of different parts of the Union, and be a means of keeping down the
tax.
Mr. BUCK said, if he thought the advocates of this amendment would vote
for the resolution when amended, he might be induced to vote for it; but
he believed they did not mean to do so. If an increase of the duty on
brown sugar would fall upon the poorer class of the people, an
additional duty on molasses would fall much heavier upon them. But he
thought gentlemen were mistaken with respect to the operation of the tax
on brown sugar; in the country it would not fall upon the poor, though
in the cities it might do so; though in increasing the duty on brown
sugar, that on fine was also increased. In the country it was the rich
who used brown sugar; they had not got to that pitch of refinement which
called for the use of fine sugar; they used brown sugar, and the poor
used none; they sweetened with molasses. Notwithstanding this, if he
thought gentlemen meant to vote for the resolution when amended, he
would not object to the addition on molasses, as he did not think so
small an advance would be materially felt.
Mr. RUTHERFORD hoped they should not agree to lay an additional duty on
either of these necessaries of life. He hoped there was sufficient good
sense in the House to oppose such a measure. They were used by all
classes, from the infant to the stoutest man; particularly by many poor,
infirm, aged persons, who looked upon them as nutritious and balmy
nourishments. He hoped, therefore, they would not increase the price of
those articles; for, if an additional cent was added, the dealers would
add two, three, or four cents, which would be more than the poor could
afford to pay for them.
Mr. CHRISTIE believed the gentleman from Pennsylvania meant, by the
introduction of this amendment, to defeat the tax on sugar altogether;
he should, therefore, vote against this amendment; but if the additional
tax on sugar should be carried, and the additional tax on molasses
should be introduced alone, he would vote for it, but he would not vote
for them together. He did not think the tax on sugar would fall upon the
poor, particularly as fine sugar would be taxed equally with the brown.
He thought it was a fair object of taxation. He believed they should
want revenue, and he did not know an article from which it could be
better raised.
Mr. FINDLAY was at a loss to know how a tax on molasses would operate;
but his doubts had been removed by the gentleman from Vermont, (Mr.
BUCK,) who had informed them it was used by the poor in place of brown
sugar. In many parts of Pennsylvania molasses was scarcely known, and
brown sugar was generally used by the poor; if, therefore, the same
class of persons in one part of the country used molasses for the same
purpose for which brown sugar was used in other parts, it was only
reasonable that both should be taxed in the same proportion.
His colleague (Mr. GALLATIN) had mentioned that his constituents would
not pay any of this tax, as they made their own sugar. It was so with a
part of his constituents, but not with the whole. As it would be unjust
to pass one tax without the other, he should be in favor of the
amendment.
Mr. GALLATIN said, it had been charged against him, that he had
introduced his amendment with a view to defeat the tax on sugar. He had
already said that he did not wish for any indirect tax during the
present session; but, at the same time, he considered it his duty, if a
majority should choose to pass the resolution, to make it as good as
possible before he voted against it, for this purpose he had introduced
his amendment. Whenever the duty on sugar was increased, that on
molasses should also be increased. With respect to what had been said
about the duty on brown sugar not falling upon the poor, it was
contradicted by the quantity every year imported into the United States.
When they knew that this amounted to twenty-two millions of pounds
weight, they must conclude that it was used by the poor as well as the
rich; for though the Eastern States used a great deal of molasses, it
was not the case in the Middle, Southern, and Western States; all
classes of citizens in those States used sugar. The voting for the
amendment now was the same as voting for it in any other shape. It was
doing now what would be done hereafter, if now omitted. There was
nothing informal in it. He saw no reason which could be urged for one
taking place, which would not equally hold with respect to the other.
Mr. SWANWICK thought that those gentlemen who separated the articles of
sugar and molasses, would wish to defeat the object; thus it was with
the gentleman last up. This was introduced with a view of securing the
collection. Mr. S. said he had before stated the injury the United
States might sustain in case of a failure of pay from the imported, and
need not repeat that he objected _in toto_ to the tax.
Mr. BUCK asked if, when on the question on the resolution, (if,
adopted,) a separate vote could be given? He was answered no. Then he
would observe to the gentleman that, if it could not be separated, he
hoped it would not be introduced, it having been said the duty on sugar
would operate on the poor; now, he said, here was an article introduced
with it that would operate worse than the other; therefore, he should
oppose both, if put together, when, if separated, he should have voted
for the tax on molasses alone, as sugar was a great means of sustenance
and use.
The Chairman again remarked (in reference to what had fallen from Mr. W.
SMITH) that the amendment was in order, though he did not think it the
most fair way of introducing the subject.
Mr. GALLATIN conceived that he was the best judge of the fairness of his
proceedings; and as the Chairman had declared the amendment to be in
order, he expected a question would be taken upon it.
Mr. NICHOLAS begged leave to differ in opinion from the Chair in this
instance, though he must own much deference was due to it: he thought
the proceedings perfectly fair. Mr. N. would vote for this, in order to
have the two connected; that gentleman could now vote against the
addition of molasses, then he would have an opportunity to vote on sugar
alone. He should wish it extended to both alike. The gentleman (Mr.
BUCK) was mistaken in his application on this subject; it was not taxing
the sustenance of the poor in one article more than another, for the
sugar would most affect one part, yet molasses would as much affect
another; he, therefore, hoped, if gentlemen wished fair and equal
taxation, that this association would take place; this equalization
would go to prevent any opposition to the tax, which would otherwise be
hazarded.
Mr. BUCK was satisfied with this explanation; therefore, supposing
gentlemen who supported the amendment would vote for both, according to
this modification, he should go with them; if not, he should oppose the
amendment.
Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) said, he did not rise to speak to the point of
order; he considered that as already settled by the Chairman. Every
member, he said, against laying an additional tax upon molasses, would,
of course, vote against the amendment; and all those who had no
objection to the tax, but who did not wish it to be thus introduced, of
whom he found there was not a few, might join them, as, after the
additional tax on sugar was agreed to, that on molasses might be again
introduced.
Mr. S. SMITH said, he had some doubt before the last gentleman was up,
of the propriety of tacking these two articles together, but now he had
none. One part of the Union, he supposed, would be for voting out
molasses: but his constituents would not like the tax on sugar, except
it was accompanied with that on molasses; as a subject of sweetening he
thought they should both go together. Mr. S. said, he had another
article of sweetening, which he wished also to add to the resolution:
great quantities of sugar-candy were manufactured in Holland and sent
all over Germany; it was used with tea and coffee, in the place of
sugar. This article, he said, was finding its way among the Germans in
this country. At present it only paid a duty of 10 per cent. _ad
valorem_, which was a very inadequate duty, when compared with that paid
on sugar. Mr. S. said, he was against going into the subject of indirect
taxes, but he thought with the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr.
GALLATIN) that it was his duty to make the resolution as good as he
could. Nothing had been said to prove that we had not revenue enough for
the present; but he would, however, move to add nine cents a pound upon
sugar-candy imported.
Mr. S. said, he agreed with the Secretary of the Treasury, that sugar
was amongst the most proper articles upon which to lay an additional
impost; but he wished for some permanent source of revenue, and not
adopt the trifling modes proposed. Gentlemen talked of deceiving the
people; he said they could not be deceived; they would know there were
two parties in that House, the one for direct, the other for indirect
taxes. Those gentlemen who were opposed to direct taxes brought forward
these articles in place of it. The people need not be told this; they
saw it evidently enough.
Mr. HOLLAND said, though he was opposed to direct taxes, he was also on
sugar and molasses; he saw all the disadvantages of some other gentlemen
on taxing West India produce at this critical juncture; but if it must
pass, he should think it his duty to endeavor to make it pass as
unexceptionably as possible; however, he should oppose both, and though
it affected his constituents differently from those of Vermont, yet he
should not include them as necessarily connected. Mr. H. thought if
these were opposed, there might be many articles more proper to lay a
tax on; but he thought there was no necessity for any this session.
The question for adding one cent per gallon on molasses was then put and
carried.
Mr. S. SMITH then moved that nine cents per pound be laid on sugar-candy
imported, observing that it was much used by the Dutch, and there being
much sweetening in it, it should bear a proportionate duty.
Mr. W. SMITH wished the gentleman to be candid on the motive of his
proposition.
Mr. S. SMITH answered, that his conduct with respect to the subject had
always been fair and unequivocal; he wished the whole proposition to be
defeated, which he had before declared, but, to make it equal and
consistent, he proposed the addition.
It was then put and carried.
The question was put on the whole resolution, as amended, and
carried--yeas 52.