"_Resolved_, That five hundred acres of land be granted to
each refugee from Canada and Nova Scotia."
This resolution was attended with three explanatory restrictions. It
passed, and the Chairman read the first of these rules, which was, "that
the applicant shall make proof, before some Court of record, of his
actual residence in one of the provinces aforesaid, previous to the ----
day of ----."
Mr. GREENUP supposed this was meant merely as the outlines of a plan to
be completed when the bill was brought in; at this time it was necessary
that instruction should be given to the committee that they may bring in
a bill consistent with the will of the House.
Mr. DAYTON objected to this, and the two following clauses. He objected
also to the resolution for an indiscriminate grant of five hundred acres
of land to each refugee. Some of these people would be found to deserve
more and some less, in proportion to their exertion and sufferings. Some
might have lost large property, or have had large families. If Mr.
DAYTON had observed what the committee were doing, he would have
objected to the passing of that clause. He likewise opposed the present
one. This clause and the remaining two were negatived.
The Committee of the Whole then rose. The Chairman reported progress.
The House took up the report. The first resolution and the second, as
altered in the committee, were agreed to.
The question on the third resolution was then put.
Mr. MACON thought that it would be exceedingly improper to grant an
equal quantity to each; it ought to be entirely circumstantial.
Mr. GREENUP was of the same opinion; he said some of these people had
suffered more than others. The circumstances of some were such that they
were in irons, in close confinement twelve or fourteen months, many of
them had the warrant signed for their execution, and a variety of
cruelties were exercised: these distresses required consideration.
Mr. BALDWIN hoped it would be struck out; the House should not go into
particulars of the quantity to be given, or the circumstances of the
persons; he had seen great difficulty attending these specifications. He
did not like this loose way of doing business; they need not open land
offices for that purpose; some way would be found out to give the people
satisfaction.
Mr. WILLIAMS hoped the committee would not be restricted.
The question on the third resolution was then put, and lost.
A committee was then appointed of Messrs. GILMAN, WILLIAMS, and GREENUP,
with instructions to bring in a bill pursuant to the resolutions as
amended.
_Kidnapping Negroes._
Mr. SWANWICK called the order of the day on a report of the Committee of
Commerce and Manufactures, made the last session, on a memorial from the
State of Delaware, respecting the kidnapping of negroes and mulattoes.
The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on
the subject.
Mr. SWANWICK said, that there was a mischievous practice in use of
carrying these people away from the place of their residence, by masters
of vessels, and selling them in other parts. The plan of the committee
was to get instructions from the House to bring in a bill making it
necessary for every master of a vessel to have a certificate of the
number and situation of any negroes or mulattoes he may have on board.
He hoped the measure would not at all be opposed, as it only prevented
thefts in this case.
Mr. COIT wished to know whether it was necessary for the United States
to intermeddle with this? He wished the report had been more
satisfactory, and stated the principles upon which it was formed with
more precision. The evil, he doubted not, existed, but the law might
create a greater evil than that it was intended to cure. It appeared to
him that the laws in the several States were fully adequate to the
subject without further provision; he was not ready to give a vote on it
either way at present.
Mr. SWANWICK said, the report was grounded on an application from the
Legislature of Delaware. [Mr. S. here read the memorial from that State
to Congress.] The practice, he said, was very injurious and dangerous to
that State, and he hoped a remedy would be attempted, as it was in the
power of Congress to provide one by this method; some of the States had
made an attempt to remedy this evil, but their laws were broken with
impunity. If the resolution of the committee passed, he should move that
the committee bring in a bill in pursuance thereto.
Mr. SWANWICK said, the laws of the different States forbade the stealing
of negroes; but they had no remedy that would take effect out of their
own State: and although each had effect in their own State, yet they had
no power on the water. The intention of the present measure was to
oblige masters of vessels, when they cleared out of any ports in the
Delaware, when they took any negro or mulatto on board, to have a
certificate of their being free. The situation of the State of Delaware,
communicating with both the Delaware and Chesapeake, was, in this
respect, particularly exposed to insult and injury; but this remedy, he
thought, would be effectual. The gentleman last up wished the committee
to rise, in order to recommit it: he should vote for it if the gentleman
was willing to add, "to bring in a bill." The gentleman was in the
committee, if he had stated his objections there, it might have saved
time.
Mr. MURRAY wished to know what was fully meant by the idea of preventing
kidnapping. He confessed he did not rightly understand the meaning of
the word. Was the intention of the committee to have reference to the
taking of free negroes and selling them as slaves, or the taking slaves
to make them free?
Mr. SWANWICK said it was intended to prevent both evils. It was intended
to prevent their being stolen from their masters; and, also, to prevent
the power of the master taking them to the other States to sell them.
This measure, he thought, would prevent both. The State of Maryland had
taken measures to prevent it themselves; they had made it a heavy
penalty to take a negro out of the State; but that is not effectual to
prevent the evil now complained of. This was meant to prevent the
practice of examining ships before they sailed and when they arrived.
Mr. W. SMITH wished the committee to rise; not with a view of
recommitting the report, but to get rid of the business altogether. The
subject, he said, involved many serious questions; it required very
serious consideration, and he wished it had never come up. It was a
question with him how far Congress had a right to meddle with it at all.
He felt alarmed on the subject as brought from that State. He considered
it as a kind of entering-wedge, as a gentleman had lately said, on
another occasion. It was altogether a municipal regulation, and not at
all connected with trade or commerce, and therefore ought to be left to
the State Legislatures to settle. He did not think the constitution
allowed that House to act in it.
Gentlemen had said, that the laws of the States took no effect on the
waters. This, he thought, was founded on a mistake. The laws of the
States could prevent robbery on water as well as on land, if within the
jurisdiction of the United States. He hoped the committee would rise,
and dismiss the subject.
Mr. ISAAC SMITH thought the gentleman knew not the proper meaning of the
report. It was not to make a law against stealing merely, but against
its being done successfully; many instances, he said, had occurred,
where they had been hid many days on board the ships and taken away in
the night to the West Indies, and other parts of the world to sell them.
It was impossible that the existing laws of the States should prevent
this fraudulent practice: the intent of this law was to prevent this
practice; by being examined, and forced to take certificates along with
them, it could not be easily done. The particulars of the remedy would
be more readily seen when the bill was brought in; it would explain
itself; it then might be modified, altered, or rejected altogether. He
thought it could give no offence or cause of alarm to any gentleman; and
he was sure it was no way contrary to the constitution.
Mr. MACON wished the committee to rise, and not have leave to sit again.
He began to see more of the impropriety of the measure than before, and
for the same reasons as the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. SMITH.)
Mr. SWANWICK said, this House had ascertained a certain proof, by which
our seamen are known, by giving them a certificate of their citizenship,
specifying their person and freedom, which had operated against
impressment: and was it not equally necessary, and would it not be
equally competent, to protect a man from injuries to which his color has
exposed him? Our unfortunate negroes and mulattoes are exposed by their
color to much insult. In some places, he said, they were so exposed,
that color alone was evidence of slavery. He would not enter into the
question, whether all ought to be free, because it was not immediately
before the House; but if these people were black or white, if free, they
ought to be protected in the enjoyment of their freedom, not only by
State Legislatures but by the General Government.
Mr. MURRAY did not expect to have raised the sensibility of the
gentleman last up. It really arose from his ignorance, he said. He
wished to know the origin of the matter; he did not know whether it had
originated in a memorial, or whether it came from the humanity of some
patriotic member, unsolicited. Great and manifold evils did exist in
this point; he meant to make a motion on the subject, as Maryland felt
heavily from the practice. He confessed he was not sufficiently
acquainted with the English language to know the proper meaning of the
word _kidnapping_; he therefore wished to know if it extended to the
object he had in view. He declared he did not wish to encourage the
harboring of negroes; far from it; he wished to prevent it. He did not
think the law extended far enough on that point; at present, negroes,
through the influence of their own minds, or the insinuations of others,
or both, frequently leave their masters, and are harbored by other
persons. The law takes no notice of this, except it can be proved that
the negro is some person's property, and has absconded: this is very
difficult to prove; therefore great evils attend its lenity. 'Tis true,
if it can be proved that the negro has absconded and was harbored, there
was a very heavy penalty inflicted; but, he said, this was difficult to
prove. This, he owned, was his _insinuation_, as the gentleman termed
it; and upon this subject he meant to claim the attention of the House.
This evil, he said, might arise from the false philosophy and misplaced
philanthropy of the advocates of emancipation. He was ever willing to
give the question a fair trial, and thought himself bound to thank the
gentleman for his extreme benevolence in advocating it.
Mr. SWANWICK, to satisfy the gentleman from Maryland, told him, that the
subject came before the House from the State of Delaware.
Mr. W. SMITH said, he did not know how far the committee should go, he
should not vote for the matter to go into the committee. He said, it was
that kind of business which, by the constitution, was to be left to the
different States, he could not agree to the subject going any further.
The observations of the gentleman from Pennsylvania had convinced him
that that House ought not to interfere with the individual States on the
subject; the interests and policy of the different States were so
various, that it would be a dangerous thing to meddle with. He thought
it an improper question for discussion; he conceived it would be sound
policy not to touch it in that House. The gentleman had gone too far to
make use of the word _emancipation_. He feared lest the use of it should
spread an alarm through some of the States. It might imperceptibly lead
from step to step till it ends in mischief.
Mr. NICHOLAS hoped the business would not be dismissed. We, said Mr. N.,
who reside in the Southern States, are unfortunately possessed of such a
kind of property as has a considerable odium attached to it; but, if we
unfortunately hold slaves, we ought not to contribute to the making
slaves of free men, but I would wish to establish them in their freedom.
If we can give relief as the thing exists, let it be; by all means do
it, whether it incur the pleasure or displeasure of some of the
slaveholders. He hoped the subject would have full investigation.
The question was then put for the committee to rise. Fifty-four members
rising in the affirmative, it was carried.
Mr. SITGREAVES then moved for the Committee of the Whole to be
discharged from the further consideration of the report; this, he said,
was in order to make way for another motion to refer it back to the
committee, to report by bill or otherwise.
The question was put, and the committee discharged.
Mr. SWANWICK moved that the business be recommitted to the Committee of
Commerce and Manufactures, to report by bill or otherwise.
Mr. COIT wished the subject to be postponed for further consideration
before it was sent to the committee. He had doubts as to the propriety
of sending it at all. He thought it had not had that discussion a
subject so important required.
Mr. W. SMITH said, he believed this was the first time it was considered
in the House. It had been tried in a committee but never taken up by the
House, and now gentlemen wished to send it back to the committee, with
instructions to bring in a bill. The Committee of Commerce and
Manufactures was considerably deranged since last session, when this
business came before them; many new members were added, and it required
more information before it could come to the conclusion prescribed.
Mr. SITGREAVES said, if any one good purpose could be derived to the
House or to the gentlemen, he would not oppose it; but he was at a loss
to know what good object could be attained by a delay. With respect to
what had been said by the gentleman, (Mr. SMITH,) that the committee
were forced to bring in a bill, he was surprised that such an idea
should be formed. If that committee report a bill, this House is not
even pledged to pass it. When the subject is sent to the committee with
that instruction, can it be conceived that committee is forced to report
a bill? There is no such thing intended nor included in the words, as
either this House should be pledged to pass a bill, or that the
committee should report one. The object is, that the House, through the
medium of the committee, should have a plan prepared for their
consideration, and the word "otherwise" leaves the committee to exercise
its own discretion as to the report.
The gentleman from Connecticut, with a prudence and consistency highly
becoming, wishes time to think on the subject. But how is that gentleman
to have foundation for his reflections until a bill is drawn? Mr. S. did
not know what were the resources of that gentleman's mind, but for
himself, he must own that in all the attitudes in which this subject
had presented itself, he could not distinctly see the plan. One
gentleman had said there was no remedy the United States could apply but
what was incompatible with the laws of the individual States. Mr. S.
presumed that until he saw the mode to be adopted, he could not say
whether it was easy or difficult. On the whole, he thought to postpone
the subject could answer no good end, while it might delay the object,
and do injury.
Mr. COIT said, very probably the resources of his mind may not be equal
to that gentleman's, he therefore wished the subject to be delayed that
he might have time to get into the knowledge of the business.
Mr. COIT'S motion for postponement was then put and carried--yeas 46,
nays 30.
_Hugh Lawson White._
Mr. BLOUNT then called for the order of the day on the report of the
Secretary of War on the petition of Hugh Lawson White, a soldier under
General Sevier, against the Indians. The House accordingly resolved
itself into a Committee of the Whole.
The following report from the Committee of Claims was then read:
That the claim set forth in the said petition, is intended
to establish a principle that will apply to the whole of
the militia which were called out under Brigadier General
Sevier, in 1793, to act offensively against certain Indians
south-west of the Ohio.
That the expedition against these Indians, as appears from
the muster-rolls, comprehended a period of above five
months, or from the 22d July to 31st December, 1793.
That it was undertaken without authority derived from the
President, under the laws of the United States, and for the
avowed purpose of carrying the war into the Cherokee
country.
That the tenor of the instructions from the Department of
War to the Governor of the South-western Territory forbade
offensive operations.
Having given these facts, it may be proper to add, that it
appears, by a recurrence to official papers, that the
Indians had greatly perplexed and harassed by thefts and
murders, the frontier inhabitants of Tennessee; and
previous to the service, for which compensation is
demanded, had shown themselves in considerable force, and
killed at two stations (one of them within seven miles of
Knoxville) fifteen persons, including women and children:
that it must rest with Congress to judge how far these
aggressions of Indians, and such other circumstances as can
be adduced to the parties, constitute a case of imminent
danger, or the expedition a just and necessary measure.
Mr. A. JACKSON[5] said, by a recurrence to the papers just read, he
doubted not it would appear evident, that the measures pursued on the
occasion alluded to were both just and necessary. When it was seen that
war was waged upon the State, that the knife and the tomahawk were held
over the heads of women and children, that peaceable citizens were
murdered, it was time to make resistance. Some of the assertions of the
Secretary at War, he said, were not founded in fact; particularly with
respect to the expedition being undertaken for the avowed purpose of
carrying the war into the Cherokee country; indeed they were
contradicted by a reference to General Smith's letter to the Secretary
of War. He trusted it would not be presuming too much, when he said,
from being an inhabitant of the country, he had some knowledge of this
business. From June to the end of October, he said, the militia acted
entirely on the defensive, when twelve hundred Indians came upon them
and carried their station, and threatened to carry the seat of
Government. In such a state, said Mr. J., would the Secretary (upon whom
the Executive power rested, in the absence of the Governor) have been
justified, had he not adopted the measure he did of pursuing the enemy?
He believed he would not; that the expedition was just and necessary,
and that, therefore, the claim of Mr. White ought to be granted.
He therefore proposed a resolution to the following effect:
"_Resolved_, That General Sevier's expedition into the
Cherokee Nation, in the year 1793, was a just and necessary
measure, and that provision ought to be made by law for
paying the expenses thereof."
Mr. HARPER said, this appeared to be a subject of considerable
importance; he hoped the resolution would, for the present, lie on the
table. He therefore moved that the committee rise and ask leave to sit
again.
Mr. COIT said, the report wanted some more preparation before it should
have come before the House; he would therefore move that it be referred
to the Committee of Claims; he knew of no reason against this reference,
as many reports from Heads of Departments had been so referred.
Mr. BLOUNT hoped the motion would not prevail. The expedient of
referring it to the Secretary at War was resorted to, when it first came
before the House. He hoped now it would not be deferred, but decided on.
He thought the Committee of Claims, from having once had it before the
House, knew as much of the case as they could know, and perhaps all was
included in this report.
Mr. D. FOSTER made the same observations in effect as Mr. BLOUNT.
Mr. COIT said, gentlemen had not given a shadow of a reason why it
should not be referred to that committee.
Mr. JACKSON owned he was not very well acquainted with the rules of the
House, but from the best idea he could form, it was a very circuitous
way of doing business. Why now refer it to the Committee of Claims, when
all the facts are stated in this report, he knew not. If this was the
usual mode of doing business, he hoped it would not be referred.
Mr. W. LYMAN thought, the time it was under consideration before, when
referred to the Secretary at War, was the time to have thought of
referring it to that committee; but now it was too late; now the House
had a report before it. It appeared to him a mere formality. It looks
like throwing the business out. He had not made up his mind which way he
should vote, but he thought one report was sufficient; he, therefore,
hoped it would come under consideration.
Mr. BLOUNT said, when he first presented the petition, he moved it to be
referred to the Committee of Claims; it was then rejected, and sent to
the Secretary at War.
The Committee rose, and obtained leave to sit again.
FRIDAY, December 30.
_The Chickasaw Claims._
ALEXANDER D. ORR, from Kentucky, appeared, and took his seat.
Mr. ANDREW JACKSON presented a petition of George Colbert, one of the
chiefs and warriors of the Chickasaw nation of Indians, complaining of a
non-performance of stipulations entered into in certain _talks_ held
with Governor Blount and other agents of the United States, in which
they agreed in defensive support of each other's rights; that their
nation was invaded by the red people, (the Creeks,) when they applied,
according to treaty, for aid; that their brother, James Robertson, said
he had no orders to send them any assistance; and that he must first
have orders from their father the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
However, a detachment of volunteers under the command of Colonel
Mansker, came to their aid. He asked compensation for supplies furnished
to that detachment during sixty days. He said he had applied to his
beloved friend the Secretary at War, who told him that Congress had set
apart no money out of which it could be paid; he, therefore, applied to
Congress for relief.
This petition was referred to the Committee of Claims.
_Hugh Lawson White._
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
petition of Hugh Lawson White.
The resolution of Mr. ANDREW JACKSON having been read,
Mr. COIT called for the reading of the petition upon which the report
was founded. It was read.
Mr. A. JACKSON said, the rations found for the troops on this expedition
had already been paid for by the Secretary of War, and he could see no
reasonable objection to the payment of the whole expense attending the
expedition. As the troops were called out by a superior officer, they
had no right to doubt his authority. Were a contrary doctrine admitted,
it would strike at the very root of subordination. It would be saying
to soldiers, "Before you obey the command of your superior officer, you
have a right to inquire into the legality of the service upon which you
are about to be employed, and, until you are satisfied, you may refuse
to take the field." This, he believed, was a principle which could not
be acted upon. General Sevier, Mr. J. said, was bound to obey the orders
he received to undertake the expedition. The officers under him were
also obliged to obey him. They went with full confidence that the United
States would pay them, believing that they had appointed such officers
as would not call them into the field without proper authority. If even
the expedition had been unconstitutional (which he was far from
believing), it ought not to affect the soldier, since he had no choice
in the business, being obliged to obey his superior. Indeed, as the
provisions had been paid for, and as the ration and pay-rolls were
always considered a check upon each other, he hoped no objection would
be made to the resolution which he had moved.
Mr. COIT said, he had called for the reading of the petition, because he
could not see the connection between it and the resolution under
consideration. The petition prayed for recompense for the services of
the petitioner, and the men under his command, and the proper resolution
would be that the prayer of it ought or might not be granted; but,
instead of this, the resolution before them went to the whole troops
employed in General Sevier's expedition.
Mr. A. JACKSON said, by referring to the report it would be seen that
the Secretary of War had stated, that to allow the prayer of this
petition, would be to establish a principle that would apply to the
whole of the militia in that expedition. If this petitioner's claim was
a just one therefore, the present decision ought to go to the whole, as
it was unnecessary for every soldier employed in that expedition, to
apply personally to that House for compensation.
Mr. RUTHERFORD observed, that the gentleman from Tennessee had set the
matter in so fair a light that it was not necessary to say much more on
the subject; but, as he had been acquainted with the frontier from his
infancy, he would just give it as his opinion, that the expedition was a
necessary one, and that the expense ought immediately to be paid. He
hoped, therefore, the resolution would be agreed to unanimously.
Mr. HARPER was not prepared to say, without more information than he had
on the subject, that the measure was just and necessary, or the
contrary. He felt disposed to think favorably of the expedition; but he
thought the House should have further information before it came to any
resolution on the subject. They had, it was true, a letter from General
Smith, the then Secretary, but he thought this was not sufficient. He
thought it would be better to refer the report and other papers to a
select committee, with instructions to inquire into the necessity and
propriety of the expedition, and report thereon. He hoped, therefore,
the present resolution would be disagreed to, and the committee would
rise. He would then bring forward a resolution to that effect. The
Secretary of War, he said, had not gone fully into the subject; he had
given them copies of two letters, but not his opinion. He did not think
that an expedition of so important a nature, and which must involve in
it a very heavy expense, should be decided upon without further
information.
Mr. CRAIK agreed in sentiment with the gentleman from South Carolina,
(Mr. HARPER.) He said there was great difficulty in forming an opinion
from the report itself; though the Secretary of War seemed to think the
calling out of the Militia necessary, there were other expressions in
the report which appeared to convey a contrary sentiment. He referred to
the letter of General Smith, but mentioned that there were other papers.
He could not say the expedition was not necessary; but he thought
further information was desirable, and the report should be committed to
a select committee, for the purpose of gaining that information.
Mr. W. SMITH agreed with the two gentlemen last up, that further
information was necessary. The question, he said, involved a number of
important points. In the first place, a question was involved, whether,
if the expeditions was necessary, as it was not authorized by law, the
expense ought to be defrayed by the United States? By the report of the
Secretary of War, it had appeared that Congress were well apprised of
all the circumstances which rendered the expedition necessary, yet they
did not think proper to authorize it. In the letter of the Secretary of
War to Governor Blount, on the subject, was this passage:
"If those difficulties existed while the Congress were in
session, and which, it was conceived, they alone were
competent to remove, they recur, in the present case, with
still greater force; for all the information received at
the time Congress were in session, was laid before both
Houses, but no order was taken thereon, nor any authority
given to the President of the United States; of consequence
his authority remains in the same situation it did on the
commencement of the last session. It is, indeed, a serious
question to plunge the nation into a war with the Southern
tribes of Indians, supported as it is said they would be."
Mr. S. also read from the report "that the expedition was undertaken
without authority," &c. The Secretary afterwards, indeed, stated, in his
report, the disagreeable situation of the country at the time, by way of
palliative; but, as Congress were possessed of these facts, and did not
authorize offensive operations, it became a nice point to determine
whether the expedition in question was justifiable. He would not say
that such a situation of things might not occur as would justify a
measure of the kind, but it was of consequence to determine whether this
was such a case, which could not be done hastily. Neither had the House
any information of the magnitude of the expense, whether it would be
two or three hundred thousand or half a million of dollars. He should,
therefore, hope the Committee of the Whole would be discharged, and that
the subject would be committed to a select committee.
Mr. MADISON saw no necessity for referring this subject to a select
committee. If it was suggested that the official information which was
before them was inaccurate, and that a more full explanation of the
situation of things was necessary, there would be some ground of
reference; but he did not find that this was the case. The Secretary of
War stated facts, and referred to documents to prove "that the Indians
had greatly perplexed and harassed, by thefts and murders, the frontier
inhabitants of Tennessee, had shown themselves in considerable force,
and killed at two stations fifteen persons." If this was a state of
facts, and it could not be doubted, the words of the constitution on the
subject were clear: "No State shall, without the consent of Congress,
lay any duty on tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace,
enter into any agreement or compact with another State, or with a
foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such
imminent danger as will not admit of delay."[6] There could be no doubt,
therefore, Mr. M. said, but this expedition came within the meaning of
the constitution. In many cases, he said, it was difficult to determine
betwixt offensive and defensive operations, as it was sometimes
necessary, when acting on the defensive, to use an offensive measure. He
had no doubt on the subject, and thought the expense of the expedition
should, by all means, be paid.
Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) said, that he was not prepared to adopt the
resolution which was moved by the member from Tennessee, nor even to
decide finally upon it, unless he could be persuaded that the gentleman
from Virginia (Mr. MADISON) was correct in saying that the report before
them contained all the information which it was possible for them to
obtain. He was convinced that there were other official papers and
documents which would throw additional light upon the subject, and
therefore, ought to be in possession of the Committee of the Whole
before they took any decisive step. He alluded to the confidential
communications from the PRESIDENT, in December, 1792, which gave rise to
lengthy discussion, with closed galleries, upon the measures that ought
to be adopted in consequence of the hostile acts and threats of those
very south-western Indians, who were the objects of the expedition for
which they were called upon to pay. The House of Representatives then
decided that they would neither declare war against those nations of
Indians, nor authorize the PRESIDENT to carry an offensive expedition
into their country, if, in the recess of Congress, he should deem it
proper, in consequence of their continuance in hostility. As the acts of
Congress upon this very application would operate in future as a
precedent and kind of commentary on that part of the constitution which
limited the instances in which a State might levy troops and act
offensively, without the previous assent of the General Government, they
could not, Mr. D. said, be too particular in their investigation, nor
too strict in their reference to dates and facts. He hoped that the
Committee of the Whole, would be discharged, and the report of the
Secretary of War referred to a select committee, whose duty it would be
to report those facts, with their dates, which gave rise to the claim in
question, and which justified, under the provision in the constitution,
the raising of troops and carrying on an offensive war, without the
previous consent of Congress or approbation of the PRESIDENT.
Mr. NICHOLAS believed, on a reference to dates, it would be seen that
these attacks of the Indians were subsequent to those which were in the
knowledge of Congress at the time mentioned, as they took place while
Governor Blount was at Philadelphia; and he thought no further
information was necessary on the subject than the letter from General
Smith to the Secretary of War, printed with the report, to prove that
the expedition was both just and necessary. General Sevier's going into
the Cherokee country was no proof that his operations were offensive. If
other information could be obtained by referring the business to a
select committee, he should have no objection; but he believed this
would not be the case. He wished the letter of General Smith to be read.
[It was read accordingly.]
Mr. BALDWIN was not able to recollect how great a portion of the members
present were in the House when this business was brought before Congress
in the year 1792. His own recollection was fresh upon the subject. It
was a period when they were much alarmed for our Indian frontier, North
and South. The North was fortified, and it was recommended to have a
legion on the South. The gentleman from South Carolina, he recollected,
was opposed to the measure, and thought the Executive had determined too
soon upon hostility. Mr. B. said he had at that time frequent
conversations with the then Secretary of War, who informed him that he
had written to the Governor of Tennessee that, in case the pressure of
the Indians was so great as to require it, he must call out the militia.
The Governor was well known, and sufficient confidence was placed in him
that this power would not be abused. He believed the troops on the
Northern frontier had not proved sufficient, and that they had already
paid the expense of troops which were called in to their assistance. At
this period, Mr. B. said, the danger which threatened the country was
great, and it was happy for us it had been so well got over. He believed
it was well that the legion for the Southern frontier was not equipped,
though he at that time thought it necessary. The expense of the
expedition in question, he said, would be nothing compared with that
which would have taken place had the legion contemplated been equipped.
Mr. B. said, he had no doubt with respect to the propriety of paying the
expense of this expedition. He did not think the number of men was
great, or that the charge would be very heavy.
Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) said, he was inclined to believe the attacks of
the Indians, which provoked the expedition of General Sevier, were
subsequent to those in the knowledge of Congress at the time the subject
was under discussion.
He was one of those, he said, who thought that the hostile dispositions
shown by those Indians at that time called for force, and he had
introduced a resolution, by means of his colleague, to that effect. It
was not, therefore, that he did not think the expedition authorized, but
because he had a desire to have the facts relative to the subject
clearly stated, that he wished the business to be committed to a select
committee.
Mr. RUTHERFORD said, they were not particular about the manner of doing
the business, provided it was done. He was confident the expense of the
expedition ought to be paid. When the Indians were upon them, what could
the Governor do? Was he to send forward to the seat of Government to be
instructed what to do? No; resistance was necessary, and it was not
becoming in them now to say, "You did not act perfectly regular--the
thing was not exactly as it should have been." It was a critical period,
he said, and if the expenses were not paid, it might have a bad effect
in future.
Mr. KITCHELL was in favor of the committee rising. He remembered the
transactions which took place on this business, as mentioned by his
colleague, (Mr. DAYTON.) He said, he was one of those who voted against
the proposition of using hostile means, because he thought it possible
to ward off the evil. It had been warded off; but he believed there was
sufficient ground for calling out General Sevier, and he doubted not, if
the business was referred to a select committee, the result would be
satisfactory to those gentlemen who brought forward the business.
The committee rose, and leave not being granted to sit again, on motion,
the report and papers accompanying it were referred to a select
committee of Messrs. A. JACKSON, J. SMITH, BLOUNT, DENT, and HARPER.[7]
FRIDAY, January 20, 1797.
_Direct Taxes._
The House then took up the consideration of the resolution reported
yesterday by the Committee of the Whole, on the subject of further
revenue.
Mr. COIT wished for a division of the question, viz: that the
proposition for a tax on land and that for slaves should be put
separately.
Mr. SWANWICK called for the yeas and nays. They were agreed to be taken.
Mr. NICHOLAS thought the resolution should not be divided, but that the
propositions for a tax on land and a tax on slaves should go together,
as he should object to vote for the tax on land except that on slaves
accompanied it. He thought the gentleman had better try the question, by
moving to strike out what respected slaves.
Mr. MADISON thought it would be best for the two propositions to go
together; but if they did not, he did not think the embarrassments
insuperable. If the question was divided, those who thought a tax on
slaves necessary must vote for the first part; and if the second was
rejected, there would not be wanting an opportunity of voting against
the tax on land. It was necessary to observe, that it had been found
expedient to associate these two taxes together, in order to do justice,
and to conform to the established usage of a very large tract of
country, who were entitled to some degree of attention, and to whom a
tax on land, without a tax on slaves, would be very objectionable.
Mr. COIT said, he could not gratify the gentleman from Virginia by
varying his motion, as it would not answer the purpose he had in view.
Mr. NICHOLAS supposed, if the motion was persisted in, he was at liberty
to move to insert _slaves_ in the first part of the resolution. The
gentleman certainly knew his own views best; or he thought it was
possible to have settled the business he proposed.
Mr. W. SMITH saw no difficulty on the subject. Gentlemen would vote for
the first part of the resolution, in hopes that the second would pass;
but if it did not pass, they would have an opportunity of voting on the
main question, and thereby defeat the whole.
Mr. VAN CORTLANDT would vote for both together, but not separately.
Mr. GALLATIN inquired as to a point of order, whether, if the first
part of the resolution was carried, and the second negatived, the
question would not then be taken upon the resolution as amended?
The SPEAKER answered in the affirmative.
Mr. WILLIAMS said, it would save time if the question was taken upon the
whole resolution together; for if several gentlemen voted against the
first proposition, lest the last should not pass, the whole might in
this way be defeated. He thought a vote might be safely taken upon the
whole together, as no one would be bound by the vote in favor of the
bill, if he should not approve of it. For his own part, he wished to see
the plan, though he did not know that he should vote for it.
Mr. NICHOLAS supposed there was not the difficulty mentioned by the
gentleman from New York. Gentlemen would not risk the whole by voting
against the first part of the resolution; since, if the second was not
carried, they could afterwards reject the whole.
The question was then put, that the House agree to the first resolution,
viz:
"_Resolved_, That there ought to be appropriated, according
to the last census, on the several States, the sum of----,
to be raised by the following direct taxes, viz:
"A tax ad valorem, under proper regulations and exceptions,
on all lands, with their improvements, including town lots,
with the buildings thereon."
It was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 48, nays 39.
The second part of the resolution, relative to slaves, was about to be
put, when
Mr. GALLATIN said, before the question was taken on this division, he
would just mention why this species of personal property was brought
under view, whilst all other personal property was unnoticed.
It was very true, that stock upon a farm in the Northern and Eastern
States paid nearly as great a proportion of the taxes of those States as
the negroes did those of the Southern States, and therefore it might
seem somewhat wrong to introduce negroes in the one case and not cattle
in the other. The reason which induced the Committee of Ways and Means
to adopt this mode was, that negroes are confined to certain spots of
land in the Southern States, while horses and cattle extend nearly over
a whole country. And a land tax, unaccompanied with a tax on slaves,
would be very unpopular in those States, as it would throw too great a
burden upon farmers who did not hold slaves, and fall too lightly upon
those whose property chiefly consisted of slaves. There was this
difference betwixt the two species of property: A farmer in the Northern
or Eastern States would not think himself aggrieved by not paying a tax
upon his farming stock; but a farmer in the Southern States would think
himself aggrieved if his land was taxed, whilst the slaves of the
slaveholder were not taxed. It was on this account that this species of
property was introduced.
Mr. MURRAY was not struck with the observations of the gentleman last
up, so as to say he would ultimately vote for this species of tax; at
present, he should vote for a bill to be brought in; but unless he found
the bill could reconcile the principle more, and do greater justice in
the case than he at present conceived, he should then oppose it.
He said, he considered slaves in the Southern States as laborers, and
unless gentlemen could show him where laborers were taxed, he should not
think it right to vote for that part of the bill. He was decidedly in
favor of a land tax, but against the other part of the question. Mr. M.
said, he merely mentioned this that he might not hereafter be charged
with inconsistency, in case he should vote against the bill. He
repeated, unless provision be made for taxing labor in other parts of
the United States, he must vote against this part of the bill if brought
in, because the tax would operate very unequally.
Mr. HARPER said, though he was entirely opposed to the tax proposed by
the resolution, and should vote against the whole, yet he thought it
right that a tax on slaves should be introduced with a tax on land; for,
as this direct tax was to be raised by apportionment through the States,
whether the Southern States paid on slaves, or the Northern States on
land, made no difference in effect; each paid in its own way; one mode
was more convenient for the Northern, another for the Southern, and
another for the Eastern--no injury was done by this to any other State.
Mr. G. JACKSON said, he was against all species of direct taxation, but
particularly on this species; and, if a tax on land was carried, he
should bring forward a resolution to lay a tax upon all property vested
in public securities. He wished for the yeas and nays on this question.
The yeas and nays were agreed to be taken.
Mr. NICHOLAS wondered to hear the observation of his colleague. He
should vote for the question, though he and his constituents would be
affected by it; but, in the district which that gentleman represented,
there were no slaves; and it was therefore his constituents' interest to
have a tax on slaves, in order to lighten that on land.
Mr. G. JACKSON said, it was not so much on account of the interest of
himself or constituents that he opposed this tax, but he objected to it
as a capitation tax.
Mr. MOORE said, the situation of the Southern States had been truly
stated. In the Western parts, there were few slaves. He said, in the
representation to that House, the labor of the negroes had been
considered as five to three, with respect to white persons; therefore,
the ability of the State to pay was considered in the same proportion.
His colleague from the mountains (Mr. G. JACKSON) should consider that,
if the holders of slaves were not to pay a portion of the tax imposed on
the State of Virginia, it would fall very heavy upon his constituents,
and those of his colleague, where few blacks were kept.
He hoped, therefore, it would pass.
Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH was aware that a tax on slaves would lighten the tax
on land in the Southern States, and therefore he did not wonder at the
Representatives from those States wishing it to take place; but, by so
apportioning the tax, would not the landholders in the Southern States
pay less than the landholders in parts of the Union where no slaves were
kept? He believed they would. A person, for instance, in New Hampshire,
holding the value of £1,000 in land, would pay a larger portion of the
tax than a holder of land to the same extent in Virginia. He believed
this would be unjust, and an objection to this mode of taxing the
Southern States, as, though the tax would fall more equally on them, it
would not be so with respect to other States.
Mr. GOODRICH said, this tax was introduced into the system for the
accommodation of that part of the Union where slaves were numerous.
A disposition to render the plan as acceptable, in every part of the
country, as it could be made, consistently with the interests of the
whole, ought to prevail. But, before a tax on slaves was adopted, its
operation on the Union, and its effects, as it respected different
districts, should be considered.
A direct tax ought to fall as equally as possible every where; that on
land and houses, with their improvements, which had been agreed to,
would be laid by a valuation seldom repeated--perhaps, once in ten or
fifteen years. The expense of its assessment and collection would be
nearly equal throughout the United States; but, with respect to a tax on
slaves, there would be required frequent enumerations--at least an
annual enumeration. This would be attended with considerable expense, to
be defrayed, not by the particular districts, for whose benefit this
species of tax was introduced, but by the United States.
There was another objection. A land tax was certain--it might, and
undoubtedly would, be made a lien on the real estate on which it was
laid. It would, be liable to little, if any, loss. Not so with a tax on
slaves. Such a tax, he apprehended, would be uncertain, exposing the
revenue to considerable defalcations. If a provision could not be made
to place the loss on the districts where it happened, by retaxing them
it would operate unequally. He imagined a retaxation for defalcation, if
it could be made, would be considered as unjust, and create discontent
among the individuals who were subjected to it; and if that could not be
done, the deficiency must fall on the Union, and would produce
uneasiness from its partial effects. He did not know how the detail
would be arranged. He had been of the number who were desirous to see
the collection-law, before they decided on the resolution before them,
so as to have possessed the whole subject. At present, he saw so many
difficulties from incorporating this species of tax into the plan, he
could not assent to it.
Mr. NICHOLAS said, he did not understand the objections of the gentleman
from New Hampshire, (Mr. J. SMITH.) He did not see how he could produce
an equal value in land in every part of the Union. The tax, he said,
would be apportioned according to the number of persons, and not
according to the number of acres in any State.
If the gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. GOODRICH) would rely upon his
information, he might be assured that an annual enumeration of slaves
would not cost so much as an assessment of land made once in ten years.
With respect to the tax being uncertain, he was totally mistaken. It was
the most productive tax in the Southern States. If the tax was laid
wholly upon land, it would be laid on a great part which would be
unsaleable, and when a report came to be made of the collection, there
would be found great deficiencies; but, with respect to slaves, there
would be no failure, because they were a species of property which would
always find a ready sale in the Southern market.
Mr. S. SMITH said, he had heard much on that floor with respect to
equality of taxation. It was impossible, he said, to make taxes fall
exactly equal; they will fall, in some cases, heavier than in others. He
would state a case. When a tax on carriages was under consideration,
they found the gentlemen from Connecticut voting without scruple,
because that State paid only two or three hundred dollars annually, when
Maryland paid five thousand dollars a year to that duty. There was no
equality in this; yet those gentlemen winked at the disproportion. He
hoped they would do so in the present case.
Mr. POTTER said, if this part of the resolution was agreed to, it was to
apportion a tax on the personal property of the Southern States, which,
no doubt, they would be glad of; and if gentlemen from those States
could point out any way by which the personal property of other States
could be come at, he would agree to the present proposition; but he
believed this could not be done; and, if not, he saw no reason why the
personal property of those States should be made to bear a part of the
proposed burden, whilst personal property in other States was suffered
to go free. It was a hard case, he said, that a man who possessed three
or four hundred dollars in land, should be made to pay a portion of the
direct tax, whilst men of affluence, who possessed many thousands in
public securities, or loaned on interest, should pay nothing.
The SPEAKER reminded the House that the question was very much lost
sight of; it was not whether a tax should be laid on carriages or
personal property, but whether they would agree to the report of the
Committee of the Whole, viz: "that a tax should be laid on slaves, with
certain exceptions."
Mr. HENDERSON said, he should vote against this proposition, because it
was a direct tax, as he should vote against every question of that
kind, until every source of indirect taxation was exhausted; and he
thought this was not the case at present.
Mr. CLAIBORNE said, he thought, also, that direct taxes should not be
resorted to until indirect sources were exhausted; but he believed, they
were now exhausted, and that direct taxes were the only means left to
them of raising money. As he lived in a country which was unfortunately
_cursed_ with negroes, he wished the present motion to pass, for the
sake of making the tax bear, in some degree, equally in the Southern
States; but if he thought with his colleague (Mr. JACKSON) that a tax on
slaves bore any affinity to a capitation tax, he should also oppose it;
but he had no such idea.
Mr. GALLATIN said, he would just notice what had fallen from the
gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. GOODRICH) which was the only thing like
argument which had been used against the present proposition. As to what
had been said about the quantum of tax falling on different States, or
what had been said by the gentleman from Rhode Island (Mr. POTTER) with
respect to the personal property of the Eastern States, he did not see
how it applied to the present question. If the proposed tax was certain,
and the expense of collection would not be greater than would attend the
collection of the tax in other States, he did not see any objection to
it.
The gentleman from Connecticut had said, that the expense of an annual
enumeration of slaves would be great, and that it would fall upon the
United States. He would inform that gentleman and the House, that when
no assessment took place, but merely an enumeration, it would be
attended with no expense on the collection of the tax. The distinction
which he made was, when a valuation and enumeration were both necessary,
and when an enumeration alone was necessary. In the first instance, the
value of the property was to be ascertained, and the tax laid
accordingly; but where an enumeration was only wanted, (the tax per
head, according to age, &c., having been settled,) no expense would be
incurred.
Mr. G. said, he spoke from experience. In Pennsylvania there was a
certain tax on personal property, the taking an account of which did not
increase the expense. Every three years there was an assessment of
personal property, amongst which was slaves; but the enumeration was
managed in this way: the collector called twice upon persons--the first
time he gave them notice to pay, and took an account of their property,
which, consisting of few articles, and the value being already fixed, he
could tell them at the time, the amount to be paid at his next call.
As to any degree of uncertainty apprehended from this tax, that might be
removed by throwing the deficiency, if there should be any, upon the
land. He thought, therefore, the objections which had been urged against
this tax would be completely obviated.
Mr. COIT allowed, that nothing was more clear than that the manner in
which the Southern States paid their apportionment of the proposed
burden, could make no difference to the Northern and Eastern States; but
the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. GALLATIN) allowed there was some
weight in the objections, with respect to the assessment and collection
of the tax.
If he understood that gentleman, he said that the making an enumeration
of slaves would make no difference in the expense. He did not know how
this could be. If two objects were to do, viz: to value and assess the
land, and to enumerate and value the slave, it was new doctrine to him,
if these two things would not cost more than if only one had been done;
or, if this business would be done for nothing, it would be one of the
first things the United States had had done upon those terms.
Upon the collection, there would also be an additional expense and a
probability of loss; the more detail there was in the business, the
greater liability to error and loss to the United States; and in
proportion to this loss would these States pay less than others.
Mr. HARTLEY said, he should at present vote for the proposition; but
should feel himself at liberty to vote differently on the bill, if he
did not approve it. Difficulties arose in his mind as to the propriety
of taxing personal property in one State and not in another, by which
means a bounty seemed to be given on land in the Southern States to the
amount of the difference of the taxes between the land in those States,
and that in other States, upon which purchasers would naturally
calculate. This difficulty might probably be removed from his mind; and,
therefore, in order to give the whole of the business a fair chance, he
should wish the resolutions to go back to the Committee of Ways and
Means, to bring in a bill.
Mr. PAGE did suppose that gentlemen coming from States which were in the
habit of collecting direct taxes, would have endeavored to accommodate
the business to the situation and circumstances of different States, so
as to make the system the most convenient to each. He did suppose that,
whenever it should have been determined to enter upon direct taxation,
that sums would have been apportioned to each State, and that they would
have been left to themselves to have raised the money in the way which
they thought most convenient. Insuperable objections, however, it
seemed, had been found against this system, as appeared from the report
of the Secretary of the Treasury; but it was unreasonable that the
Northern States should complain that the Southern States would pay the
tax with greater facility than them. They might, he said, as well
complain against the richness of their soil, or the warmness of their
climate.
With respect to the tax falling lighter on them than on other States,
those who held slaves would find it lighter, but those who had none,
would not. But he thought it extraordinary that, whilst they were
upbraided with holding a species of property peculiar to their country,
they should also be upbraided with wishing to pay a duty upon that
property.
Mr. P. said, he did not see what difference it could make to other
States, that they raised a part of the tax required of them from slaves.
The Secretary of the Treasury had recommended this mode, the Committee
of Ways and Means had reported accordingly; and they were ready to pay a
tax for their slaves, in addition to the expense they were at for them
already; for, it should be recollected, persons holding slaves,
contribute largely to the duties collected from imposts, by the purchase
of flannels and cloth, rum, molasses, &c., necessary for their food and
clothing.
If a person living in a State where slavery did not exist, paid
something more for his land, the difference was certainly not equal to
the satisfaction he must enjoy in reflecting, that his State was free
from that evil. His land, on that account, would be worth three times as
much as land of the same quality in the Southern States. Why, then, do
gentlemen complain? The Southern States themselves might have objected
to this tax; they might have doubted the constitutionality of it;
indeed, he did doubt it, but he had agreed to it; and he believed there
was no better way of making the tax go down in those States, than by the
present measure.
For his own part, Mr. P. said, he wished he lived where there was no
slavery; and if he could find a climate he liked as well, he would
change his situation on that account.
Mr. BRENT said, it was a very extraordinary thing that gentlemen who
represented States where there were no slaves, should oppose a tax on
that species of property, and that the Southern States where slavery
existed, should be advocating that tax.
By the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, there appeared a
deficiency of revenue, and in order to supply that deficiency, they had
determined to have recourse to direct taxation; and, after the amount
which each State ought to furnish, had been ascertained, he thought it
should have been left to the different States to have raised the money
from such funds as they judged best, provided they had been secure.
This, he thought, would only have been liberal and proper. It had,
however, been determined otherwise; but, from a knowledge that, by
introducing land and slaves together, as objects of taxation, the tax
would be more equally levied in the Southern States, if that plan had
been adopted. And, surely, he said, it could have given no satisfaction
to any other State, that, by laying a tax on land only, it should have
operated in a very oppressive manner in some parts of the Southern
States, and scarcely have been felt at all in other parts of those
States; and yet, this would appear to be the opinion of the gentleman
from New Hampshire; for, he said, if this law passed, a person
possessing landed property in New Hampshire, of the value of £1,000,
would pay more than a landholder to that amount in the Southern States.
And was this, he asked, a subject of regret? If the State of Virginia
paid the amount required of her in a manner which bore most equally upon
the whole of her citizens, ought that to displease the citizens of other
States? He thought not. He was of opinion, that it would be a desirable
thing that the tax should be found to fall equally on the citizens of
every State.
Another objection, produced by the gentleman from Connecticut (Mr.
GOODRICH) was that a tax on this species of property would not be so
secure as a tax on land. If that gentleman had been acquainted with the
situation of the Southern States, he would have known that slaves formed
the most certain fund of those States; for, whilst their wide and
extensive waste lands would not command any price, slaves were always
ready sale. Hence it arose, that the States were not able to raise a tax
on land, whilst a tax on slaves had never failed to be productive.
With respect to the inconvenience or expense attending a tax on slaves,
in Virginia, he said, no expense would be necessary; because it was the
custom of that State to take annually, a list of their slaves, which was
regularly recorded in the archives of the State. If gentlemen were,
therefore, so economical that they would not expend a few of the public
pence to get a list of this property, let them recur to the document he
had mentioned, which might be done without expense.
To those who know the situation of the Southern States, the remarks made
by the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. GALLATIN) must have been
irresistibly impressive. Almost the whole of the lower part of the
country possessed property of this kind, whilst the upper parts had
scarcely any. If a tax was, therefore, imposed upon land only, the upper
part of the country would be extremely aggravated, and would murmur, and
they would murmur with justice.
Gentlemen from the Eastern States called upon the Representatives of the
Southern States to point out a mode by which they might come at the
personal property of their States. But, he would ask them, if,
independent of land with its improvements, they possessed any other
species of property which could not be eluded? He believed they could
not point it out; why, then, call upon gentlemen from the Southern
States to do, what they, who certainly knew best their own resources,
were unable to do?
The gentlemen from the Southern States, he said, had discovered those
objects which they thought best able to bear the burden; and if the
Representatives of the other States were not satisfied with the tax on
land, let them come forward and say what other property they have
equally secure, upon which a tax may be laid.
It was a phenomenon, he would again say, that the Representatives of
States where slavery existed, should be contending for a tax upon
slaves, and that members from States where slavery was not tolerated,
were opposing it. He could not help believing that the real object of
gentlemen had not been avowed. It was something hidden and unseen.[8]
Mr. KITTERA said, that the opposers of this part of the resolution were
the opposers of a direct tax altogether. It was observable that those
upon whom the tax would fall, did not complain. It was extraordinary
that the complaints should come from another quarter. As to the
objections of his colleague (Mr. HARTLEY) that part of the tax being
laid on slaves in the Southern States, would affect the value of land,
it would make no difference whether the tax was on land or slaves, as it
affected land, its operation would be the same. It was therefore no
solid objection against the resolution.
On the question, that the House do agree to the last part of the said
resolution, in the words following, to wit: "A tax on slaves, with
certain exceptions;" it was resolved in the affirmative--yeas 68, nays
23, as follows:
YEAS.--Fisher Ames, Abraham Baldwin, Thomas Blount,
Theophilus Bradbury, Richard Brent, Daniel Buck, Samuel J.
Cabell, Gabriel Christie, Thomas Claiborne, Isaac Coles,
William Cooper, William Craik, James Davenport, George
Dent, George Ege, William Findlay, Abiel Foster, Jesse
Franklin, Albert Gallatin, James Gillespie, Nicholas
Gilman, Henry Glenn, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg,
William B. Grove, Wade Hampton, George Hancock, Robert
Goodloe Harper, Carter B. Harrison, Thomas Hartley, John
Hathorn, Jonathan N. Havens, William Hindman, James
Holland, Andrew Jackson, John Wilkes Kittera, Matthew
Locke, Samuel Lyman, Samuel Maclay, Nathaniel Macon, James
Madison, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Frederick A.
Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Anthony New, John
Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Josiah Parker, John
Patton, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Samuel Sewall,
Samuel Sitgreaves, Israel Smith, Isaac Smith, Samuel Smith,
William Smith, Richard Sprigg, Jr., William Strudwick, John
Swanwick, John E. Van Allen, Philip Van Cortlandt, Abraham
Venable, Peleg Wadsworth, John Williams, and Richard Winn.
NAYS.--Nathan Bryan, Dempsey Burges, Joshua Coit, Samuel W.
Dana, Henry Dearborn, Dwight Foster, Nathaniel Freeman,
Jr., Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, Thomas Henderson,
George Jackson, William Lyman, Francis Malbone, Elisha R.
Potter, John Read, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith,
Nathaniel Smith, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Richard
Thomas, Mark Thompson, and Joseph B. Varnum.
And then the main question being taken, that the House do agree to the
resolution, as reported by the Committee of the whole House, it was
resolved in the affirmative--yeas 49, nays 39.
_Ordered_, That the Committee of Ways and Means do prepare and bring in
a bill or bills, pursuant to the said resolution.
MONDAY, January 23.
THOMPSON J. SKINNER, from Massachusetts, in place of THEODORE SEDGWICK,
appointed a Senator of the United States, appeared, produced his
credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.
FRIDAY, January 27.
_Appropriations for 1797._
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the
subject of appropriations for the year 1797, when the article which
relates to the contingent expenses of the two branches of the
Legislature, amounting to twelve thousand dollars, being read,
Mr. BALDWIN said, he had often before made the remark, (and he thought
it not unseasonable now to repeat it,) that the House was too apt to be
merely formal and superficial in passing on the general estimate for the
year. He was sorry to observe that this item had within this year or two
been considerably increased; he believed the price of wood, stationery,
and other articles purchased for the session, was now much the same as
in 1795, though the printer's bill might be higher; yet, as the session
would be but three months, he thought the sum allowed for 1795 would be
sufficient. He had always thought this charge for the contingencies of
the two Houses, one of the strongest instances of that kind of loose
economy which it has been complained, and perhaps with too much justice,
pervades all the operations of the Federal Government--we have often
been reminded that, to make an expedition into the woods to an Indian
town, or to build a frigate, or to coin one hundred tons of copper,
costs us a great deal more than it ever did any other Government in this
country. If this is a strong instance of that style of economy, let us
begin the reformation with ourselves, and not be so prodigal this year
in our contingent expenses; our circumstances call on us for greater
attention to economy. He was sensible the place for correcting these
evils was ordinarily on passing the law authorizing the expense, and not
on the appropriation for the payment of it; but this item, and many
others, depended on no law--changing the sum in the estimate will
control the expense. If any one will take the trouble of looking over
the vouchers on which these accounts have been settled for past years,
he will see that there is room for more economy. One branch of the
Legislature consists of about thirty members--four thousand dollars is
a great sum for the purchase of their wood, quills, and paper, and for
furnishing them with copies of business under consideration. Is it
possible that twelve thousand dollars can be necessary for the two
Houses? The whole yearly expenses of some of the State Governments do
not amount to a much greater sum--he hoped this would be struck out, and
the sum which was allowed for 1795, and some preceding years, be
inserted.
Mr. SMITH presumed the estimate was founded upon information received
from the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of that House. He did not
conceive it would make any difference in the expenditure, whether a
larger or smaller sum be appropriated; as he did not suppose the Senate
or that House would print the less because a less sum was appropriated.
The gentleman, he said, might, by his speech, give an idea to the
public, that this would be a saving of so much money; but it would, in
reality, make no difference.
After a few observations from other members, the question was put and
negatived--37 to 30.
The committee then rose, and had leave to sit again. And the House
adjourned till Monday.
MONDAY, January 30.
GEORGE LEONARD, from Massachusetts, appeared, and took his seat.
_Manumitted Slaves._
[Mr. SWANWICK presented the petition of Jacob Nicholson and
Jupiter Nicholson, Job Albertson and Thomas Pritchet, dated
at Philadelphia, stating that they had been the slaves of
persons in Perquimans County, North Carolina, who had
manumitted them, and whose surname they took--that
afterwards they had been seized by other persons and sold
into slavery under a law of the State--that to escape from
this bondage they had fled to Philadelphia, where they had
been seized under the fugitive slave act: and pray relief
from Congress.]