The testimony of Breck Wall was taken at 2:13 p.m., on August 5, 1964,
at the U.S. Post Office Building, 301 Stewart Street, Las Vegas, Nev.,
by Mr. Arlen Specter, assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. SPECTER. May the record show that this deposition proceeding of
the President’s Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy
is being taken at the U.S. Post Office Building, 301 Stewart Street,
Las Vegas, Nev. May the record further show it is now 2:13 Pacific
daylight time on Wednesday, August 5, 1964. Present is Mr. Breck Wall
who has appeared in response to letter notification and also telephone
notification.
Mr. Wall, the President’s Commission has asked you to appear here today
to testify concerning any knowledge which you may have of Mr. Jack
Ruby, his associates, background, and his activities relating to the
events of November 22 through November 24, 1963. With that preliminary
statement of purpose, I will ask you to rise and raise your right hand,
if you would, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you shall give in
this deposition proceeding before the President’s Commission on the
Assassination of President Kennedy shall be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
Mr. WALL. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name for the record, please?
Mr. WALL. My legal name is Billy Ray Wilson but I have used
professionally Breck Wall for the last 7 or 8 years.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Wall, did you receive a letter of notification asking
you to appear here today for your deposition?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did that letter contain within it the Executive order
creating the President’s Commission and a copy of the rules and
regulations for taking of depositions by the President’s Commission?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And you understand that if you wish, you may be
represented by counsel here today?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you want to have an attorney with you today?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you receive that letter?
Mr. WALL. Monday night at home. I was performing at the Castaways and a
friend of mine signed the receipt on it.
Mr. SPECTER. Under the regulations you are entitled to 3 days’ notice.
Are you willing to proceed with this deposition today without having
that notice?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your occupation or profession, Mr. Wall?
Mr. WALL. Producer; performer.
Mr. SPECTER. Where are you employed at the present time?
Mr. WALL. At the Castaways in Las Vegas.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the nature of your duties in connection with your
employment at the Castaways?
Mr. WALL. Well, I perform each night. I don’t understand what you mean
really.
Mr. SPECTER. What sort of performing do you do?
Mr. WALL. Comedy; musical comedy.
Mr. SPECTER. How long have you been engaged in that type of activity?
Mr. WALL. About 6 years.
Mr. SPECTER. And what was your occupation before you became an
entertainer?
Mr. WALL. College student.
Mr. SPECTER. How old are you at the present time?
Mr. WALL. Twenty-seven.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your educational background?
Mr. WALL. Well, I only had 1 year of college, University of Texas.
Mr. SPECTER. Where were you born?
Mr. WALL. Jacksonville, Fla.
Mr. SPECTER. And where did you live, in a general way, up to the
present time?
Mr. WALL. Well, I have lived in Freeport, Tex., that is where I was
raised, and Dallas, New York City, Jacksonville, Fla., Orlando, Fla.,
and here.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you live in New York City?
Mr. WALL. In 1954 through 1957.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your occupation at that time?
Mr. WALL. I worked as a doorman at Luchow’s on 14th Street.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you live at those various cities in Florida?
Mr. WALL. In between—in the year of 1957 and 1958. I came to Dallas in
November of 1958, I believe.
Mr. SPECTER. When was it specifically that you lived in Florida then?
Mr. WALL. It was in the first part of 1958 and the latter part of 1957,
I would say.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did you live in Freeman, Tex.?
Mr. WALL. Freeport.
Mr. SPECTER. Freeport, Tex.?
Mr. WALL. Through school until I graduated in 1953.
Mr. SPECTER. From high school?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Then you attended the University of Texas in Austin for a
year?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And where did you live from 1954 until the time you went
to New York City?
Mr. WALL. Then New York City from Austin.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you go directly from Austin to New York City?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you go directly from New York City?
Mr. WALL. To Jacksonville, Fla.
Mr. SPECTER. Where you lived for the balance of the time up until
November of 1958?
Mr. WALL. Right; sir.
Mr. SPECTER. When you went to Dallas, Tex.?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do when you first went to Dallas in November
of 1958?
Mr. WALL. I was ill at the time and I had to stay with the McKennas. I
was sick at the time.
Mr. SPECTER. And where do the McKennas live?
Mr. WALL. Currently they live in Galveston, Tex. They moved from Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. What are the first names of the McKennas?
Mr. WALL. Thomas J. McKenna.
Mr. SPECTER. And is there another McKenna?
Mr. WALL. There are—you mean as far as children?
Mr. SPECTER. You say you lived with the McKennas. I take it there was
more than one McKenna or was there only one?
Mr. WALL. Mrs. McKenna and three children.
Mr. SPECTER. And how long did you stay with them following the time you
joined them in November of 1958?
Mr. WALL. I would say about 2 months.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you next live?
Mr. WALL. I can’t think of the name of the street. In Dallas. I lived
in Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. With others, or by yourself?
Mr. WALL. By myself.
Mr. SPECTER. How did you happen to know the McKennas?
Mr. WALL. When I was going to high school, I would spend the summer
with my family and they lived next door to my family.
Mr. SPECTER. And when you spent the summer with your family who lived
next door to the McKennas, was that in Dallas?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; in Fort Worth.
Mr. SPECTER. Whom did you live with when you went to school in
Freeport?
Mr. WALL. With my grandmother who has since deceased.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you live in Dallas, Tex., after November of
1958?
Mr. WALL. When I moved in November of 1958 there, I stayed until I just
moved.
Mr. SPECTER. When was it that you left?
Mr. WALL. We left in January of 1964 to go to Houston.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say “we,” whom do you mean by that?
Mr. WALL. The company; the show I am in.
Mr. SPECTER. Which show is that?
Mr. WALL. Bottoms Up.
Mr. SPECTER. How long were you in Houston then?
Mr. WALL. We were in Houston for 12 weeks and then from Houston we came
out to Las Vegas.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know Jack Ruby?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. When, to the best of your recollection, did you first meet
Mr. Ruby?
Mr. WALL. I would say about 3½ years ago.
Mr. SPECTER. What were the circumstances of your becoming acquainted
with him?
Mr. WALL. We were having financial trouble at a club we owned called
the Playbill.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say “we,” whom do you mean?
Mr. WALL. Joe Peterson, my partner. We needed a place to go to do a
show. Jack Ruby offered a very lucrative offer to play his new club. It
was then called the Sovereign Club which later became the Carousel.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, what was the nature of the lucrative offer which Mr.
Ruby made to you?
Mr. WALL. Well, I think he was going to pay us, I think, I’m not sure,
$125 a week plus we were on a small percentage of the club.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did you play for Mr. Ruby at the Sovereign Club?
Mr. WALL. I would say about 8 weeks. Maybe less.
Mr. SPECTER. What happened, if anything, to terminate that arrangement?
Mr. WALL. We got into an argument over a contract that I had signed
stating that I would perform the show for one night for around $2,200.
Mr. SPECTER. What show were you supposed to perform for one night?
Mr. WALL. Bottoms Up.
Mr. SPECTER. For whom?
Mr. WALL. I don’t recall the name of the organization. It was a nurses’
organization.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was that show supposed to be performed?
Mr. WALL. In the ballroom of the Hotel Adolphus.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the nature of your disagreement with Mr. Ruby?
Mr. WALL. He was in a financial bind because the show wasn’t working
out like he thought and we were in a financial bind and needed the
money and he would let us do it only if we would give him half. We
couldn’t because we couldn’t.
Mr. SPECTER. What do you mean “we”? You still mean Joe Peterson and you?
Mr. WALL. Yes. And we called in the union man of our performing arts
called AGVA.
Mr. SPECTER. What is that an abbreviation of?
Mr. WALL. American Guild of Variety Artists. And the AGVA man sided
with Jack and we got into an argument wherein Jack punched Joe in the
mouth and broke off a tooth.
Mr. SPECTER. Joe Peterson, that is?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir. And we left that night. I might also add in the
record that the man, the name of the man representing our union, was
named James Dolen who was arrested later, some months later, by the FBI.
Mr. SPECTER. On what charge, if you know?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir; as far as I know he was running some sort of bingo
game or something illegal in Louisiana.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you perform that show Bottoms Up?
Mr. WALL. No, sir. Jack Ruby and Jim Dolen took the show over and made
our kids perform the show.
Mr. SPECTER. Was the same troupe then performing the show except for
you and Mr. Peterson?
Mr. WALL. The only one we have now with us that did the show with us
over at the Adolphus that particular night is Bill Fanning who is in
our show.
Mr. SPECTER. After that 8-week connection with Mr. Ruby what later
association, if any, did you have with him?
Mr. WALL. Well, I didn’t speak to Jack for about, I would say, around 6
months but he and Mr. Peterson became good friends again because they
have the type personalities that flare up and forget; and I don’t—I
have a mind like an elephant—and they started speaking so, therefore,
I started speaking and going back to the club which he changed into a
stripper club called the Carousel.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever work for Mr. Ruby again?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Then from that time on you knew him as a friend and
acquaintance in the Dallas area?
Mr. WALL. Right.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your occupation from the time you left Mr. Ruby’s
until you left Dallas in January of 1964?
Mr. WALL. We reopened the Playbill Club for about 4 months and then we
went back to the—I’m sorry—then we went to the Maple Theater, did a
show for about 6 weeks called Mr. Wonderful, then back to the Adolphus
Hotel where we stayed.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do at the Adolphus Hotel?
Mr. WALL. Bottoms Up. Performed it in the Century Room.
Mr. SPECTER. How frequently did you see Mr. Ruby during the years of
1961, 1962, 1963?
Mr. WALL. Well, after we lost the Playbill again for a second time and
we closed the show at the Maple Theater, then we were right across
the street from where Jack had his club and Jack got a haircut at the
barbershop in the hotel, ate in the hotel restaurant, consequently I
think that is when he started—he and Joe started being friends and I
started seeing him a lot and became good friends; then when we started
at the Adolphus in 1962, maybe the latter part of 1961, we started
speaking and being good friends. We would go over there sometimes three
or four times a week just to see the show and the girls over there
which we were good friends with.
Mr. SPECTER. To your knowledge, did Jack Ruby ever associate with any
of the criminal element?
Mr. WALL. He always reminded me of a gangster but I have never seen him
with anyone.
Mr. SPECTER. Why did he always remind you of a gangster?
Mr. WALL. Just the way he talks, you know, he just reminds me of a real
hood. Still I have never seen him with anyone that you would call a
criminal in Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. Aside from his appearance and the way he talks do you have
any factual reason for saying that he appears to be a hood or gangster?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. To your knowledge was Jack Ruby ever a member of any
subversive organization or any group which advocates the forceful
overthrow of the United States Government?
Mr. WALL. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Were any members of his family or friends ever members of
any subversive organization?
Mr. WALL. I only met one relative of his which was his sister, Eva, or
Ava, however you would say it. I just met her casually.
Mr. SPECTER. What is her last name?
Mr. WALL. I really don’t know.
Mr. SPECTER. Grant?
Mr. WALL. Grant. That is right. She ran his club on—what street is it?
I have to think of the club for a minute. It is right next door to the
B&B.
Mr. SPECTER. The Vegas Club?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir. Thank you. That was the only time. I have only been
out to the Vegas Club maybe twice in the whole time I have been in
Dallas but I would see her at the B&B restaurant eating after she had
closed her club.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever know Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever see Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WALL. Only after he had shot the President.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know whether Jack Ruby ever knew Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever see Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald together
at any time?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; not at all.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know whether Jack Ruby knew Officer J. D. Tippit?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; I don’t. He knew most of the policemen on the police
force.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you ever see Jack Ruby with Officer Tippit?
Mr. WALL. I don’t know what he looks like.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know who Officer Tippit is?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. SPECTER. He was the officer who was shot and killed the day of the
assassination.
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall Friday, November 22, 1963?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What were your activities on that day to the best of your
ability to recollect?
Mr. WALL. That was very easy to remember. We went down to the Adolphus
marquee.
Mr. SPECTER. “We” meaning?
Mr. WALL. Joe Peterson and also with us was Nancy Austin, who is in
our show, and Kenny Jerome, who is in our show. We watched President
Kennedy drive by and I was listening to it on the radio as he was
driving and when he passed us he was going 30 miles an hour whereas
he had been going 10 miles an hour so we missed him. With all the
excitement and everything we didn’t get a good look at him so we went
upstairs.
Mr. SPECTER. Your view of the motorcade from the Adolphus was from the
marquee of the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do after the Presidential limousine passed
the Adolphus Hotel?
Mr. WALL. We wanted to get a better look at the President so Joe
Peterson and myself decided to go out to the airport because when he
was out there, when he first arrived in Dallas, he stayed out there I
think 30 minutes longer than he was supposed to, shaking hands with
the people. We thought he might do it again. We ran upstairs to change
clothes. It was a very cold day. We needed to put on some warm clothes.
We went upstairs to change clothes and go out to the airport. We always
left our television on because we have a dog and it sort of keeps him
calm. When we opened the door into the bedroom they announced over the
television that the President had been assassinated. Joe went down to
the—as far as I know he went down to the Book Depository to see what it
looked like and I stayed in the bedroom and watched the television to
find out what was, you know, going on. We stayed there all that night
and we departed for Galveston to get away from Dallas the next day,
which was Saturday, at around 3 or 4 in the afternoon.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do the balance of Friday night?
Mr. WALL. We stayed and watched television. I didn’t move from the
television set.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you have dinner that night?
Mr. WALL. In the room.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you go to bed on the evening of November 22,
if you recall?
Mr. WALL. As far as I know I didn’t go to bed until 5 in the morning.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do all that night?
Mr. WALL. Watched television.
Mr. SPECTER. Were the television stations running around the clock?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you awaken on Saturday, November 23, if you
remember?
Mr. WALL. I would say around 8 o’clock, 9 o’clock. I woke up and
watched television again.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you eat breakfast?
Mr. WALL. I went down to breakfast on Saturday.
Mr. SPECTER. Down to where?
Mr. WALL. The coffee shop.
Mr. SPECTER. Of the Adolphus Hotel?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir. Then I came right back up and watched television
again until that afternoon.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you leave the hotel?
Mr. WALL. About 3 or 4 that afternoon we left for Galveston.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say “we,” whom do you mean?
Mr. WALL. Joe Peterson and myself.
Mr. SPECTER. By what means did you go?
Mr. WALL. In our car.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any telephone calls on Saturday?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir. I called the McKennas to tell them we were coming
down.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any telephone calls on Friday, the day before?
Mr. WALL. I’m sure I made telephone calls to each cast member telling
them we would not perform until Monday or Tuesday, that Mr. Anderson
didn’t know yet—he is the manager of the hotel—I’m sure I made quite a
few calls that day.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you had a conversation with Mr. Anderson concerning
the closing of the show?
Mr. WALL. No, sir. He called us saying there wouldn’t be a show until
Monday or Tuesday depending on when the funeral was. He didn’t know.
Mr. SPECTER. What is his full name?
Mr. WALL. All I know is Andy Anderson. He has initials. I don’t know,
sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What members of the cast did you call following your
conversation with Mr. Anderson?
Mr. WALL. Everyone in the cast, and I may forget a few names. I can
list them if you’d like.
Mr. SPECTER. Please do.
Mr. WALL. Carl Tressler in Fort Worth. There would also be Eddie
Parker, Bill Fanning, Suzanne Malone.
Mr. SPECTER. Where does she live?
Mr. WALL. In Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. Where does Carl Tressler live?
Mr. WALL. Fort Worth. All the cast members in our show live in Dallas
with the exception of Carl Tressler and Eddie Parker who live in Fort
Worth. All of my calls would have been in Fort Worth except for the
long distance calls in Galveston. We have had so many castings I really
can’t remember the rest of the people we had in our show. Possibly I
made a call to Hazel Rippe, if she was still in the show.
Mr. SPECTER. That would have been in Dallas also?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir. All these telephone numbers would be in Dallas.
Hazel wasn’t in our show. There is another phone number in Fort Worth,
it was a girl dancer in our show by the name of Ryna Hradecky, who
was a friend of Carl Tressler’s, so, therefore, I might have given a
message to Carl to call Ryna because I couldn’t get her at home at that
particular time but if I had any calls to Fort Worth it would be to
Ryna also. There would be one or two other calls to Dallas which would
be cast members but I really can’t think who was in the show.
Mr. SPECTER. At about what time did you call Tom McKenna?
Mr. WALL. It would probably be, I would say, around 2 in the afternoon
because we decided very quickly we were going. We just got tired of
laying around the room watching television. I was beginning to get
“buggy.”
Mr. SPECTER. Could you have called him as late as 5:30 that afternoon?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir; it could have been.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do then the balance of that afternoon?
Mr. WALL. Watched television.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you watch television all the time up until the point
when you left to go to Galveston?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What time did you arrive in Galveston?
Mr. WALL. It would be 11 o’clock; somewhere around 11 o’clock.
Mr. SPECTER. How far is it from Dallas to Galveston?
Mr. WALL. I didn’t make the call from Dallas to Galveston at 2—it must
have been 5:30—because it only takes 4½ hours.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the distance?
Mr. WALL. Around 200 miles.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you make any stops en route?
Mr. WALL. Only for gas.
Mr. SPECTER. Where did you have dinner?
Mr. WALL. We didn’t have dinner. We don’t ever eat when we drive to
Galveston, just go straight on down.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you eat when you arrived at Galveston?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir; we ate at the house.
Mr. SPECTER. At Mr. McKenna’s house?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do after arriving in Galveston that night?
Mr. WALL. Well, just as nearly, as quickly as we arrived is when we
got a telephone call from Jack Ruby. After I talked to him we sat and
visited and then went to bed.
Mr. SPECTER. How long did the telephone call from Mr. Ruby last?
Mr. WALL. I would say it couldn’t have been more than only 5 minutes.
Maybe 3½ minutes.
Mr. SPECTER. State, as precisely as you can recollect, exactly what
Jack Ruby said to you and what you said to him during that telephone
call.
Mr. WALL. Well, he was having trouble with the union, or AGVA, and I
had been elected the president of the council, newly elected president,
and we had not even had a meeting yet but—I can’t remember—he was
having some sort of problems with his girls and the union was going to
make him do something, which I didn’t think was right. I told him I
would help him out and make sure his case was presented correctly.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the union trying to make him do?
Mr. WALL. I don’t recall. I really don’t know but—I wasn’t going to be
on his side, but I was going to be sure it was presented correctly,
that we would get his angle as much as the union’s, the girl that was
reporting him or whatever the circumstances were.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you friends with Mr. Ruby at this time?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir. He was very upset the President was assassinated
and he called Abe Weinstein or Bernie Weinstein, he called them some
names for staying open Friday night.
Mr. SPECTER. What club did they run?
Mr. WALL. They—I don’t know which one owns which. One owns the Theater
Lounge and the other owns the Colony Club, and he was very upset that
he had closed and they stayed open. He thought it wasn’t right and he
wanted to know when I would return to Dallas and I told him probably
Monday or Tuesday and he said, well, when I got in to town would I call
him, which I said I would. He asked how everything was. I told him fine
and that was it.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you recollect anything else he said during that
telephone conversation?
Mr. WALL. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you recollect anything else that you said to him
during that call?
Mr. WALL. Only if I told him why I left Dallas. He asked what I was
doing in Galveston. I told him I just wanted to get away for a couple
of days.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he mention Lee Harvey Oswald in that telephone call?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; not at all.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he mention anything about any assassin or the assassin
whoever he might be?
Mr. WALL. No, sir. The only thing that he said which would be important
to the Commission was that he was very upset that the other clubs had
decided to stay open and that they did not have the decency to close
on such a day and that he thought out of respect they should close.
That is the only thing I recall that he said that would be of any
importance. The other things were about his business with the union,
how we were and why we went down to Galveston.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say anything about any intention he might have to
do anything to Oswald?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; not at all.
Mr. SPECTER. Prior to that telephone call on the night of November 23,
when was the last time you had talked to Ruby before that?
Mr. WALL. It could have been 2 or 3 days before. I don’t know, as I
said. I saw him that often, you know. I do recall the last time I was
in his club was the week before he shot Oswald.
Mr. SPECTER. When were you in his club during that week?
Mr. WALL. We had signed a contract to go into the Continental Hotel in
Houston and we had the——
Mr. SPECTER. By “we” you mean you and Joe Peterson?
Mr. WALL. Right. Whenever I use “we” that is always Joe Peterson. And
we had—the man who signed us felt pretty good about it and wanted to
stay up beyond 12 o’clock, which is our curfew in Texas, and the only
place that was open is the three exotic clubs and we decided to take
Larry Grayson, booker of the Continental, to Jack Ruby’s club and let
him see a stripper called Jada.
Mr. SPECTER. Weren’t the exotic clubs governed by the curfew?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; I’m sorry. The Theater Lounge and the Colony Club
did close—I’m sorry. They didn’t close. No; they didn’t. You could
serve a beer called near beer which did not contain any alcohol, or
they would serve coffee. They did not have to close at the same time
the others closed; so we took Larry and went over there and stayed up
until around 2 or 3. I recall the incident, by the way, that Jack was
having trouble with the union about.
Mr. SPECTER. What incident was it?
Mr. WALL. It was something about the comic had to perform in between
each stripper to lengthen the time of the show and where he had
lined up three strippers at one time and then a comic and then three
strippers again. He was having trouble with time. He wanted to make the
show continuous and this was the problem he was having, so the night
that I went to the Carousel Club with Larry Grayson and Joe Peterson
he, himself, got on stage and entertained for 30 minutes with a raffle
and I recall that Larry turned to me and said—every time that Jack
would do something he would try and be very funny—every time he would
do something he would turn to me and say. “Is that all right, Breck?”
and Larry turned to me and said, “He thinks a great deal of you. Every
time he does anything he turns to you,” and I said, “Yes.” I definitely
remember that. That was the problem of trying to make——
Mr. SPECTER. What night was that?
Mr. WALL. It was at least a week before, maybe not—maybe not quite a
week.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you recall the specific night that was?
Mr. WALL. No, sir; I can’t.
Mr. SPECTER. Prior to that time when had you last seen Ruby?
Mr. WALL. I really don’t know, sir. I don’t think probably I saw him at
all until after the President had been shot.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, I’m going back, before the time you said you had
this conversation with him on that Saturday night when you were in
Galveston. You saw Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club some time about a
week before the assassination?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. When, prior to the time you were in the Carousel Club a
week before the assassination, had you last seen Jack Ruby?
Mr. WALL. Possibly on the street or something. I had gone up to the
club a week or two before that.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you discussed this problem concerning the American
Guild of Variety Artists with Jack Ruby prior to that telephone
conversation on November 23?
Mr. WALL. Yes, sir; I had.
Mr. SPECTER. When had you discussed it with him before?