Mr. HERNDON. I am referring to question 5 and 6 in which he did not
specifically reply verbally.
Mr. SPECTER. That is “Do you think members of your family are now in
danger because of what you did?”
Mr. HERNDON. That is correct.
Mr. SPECTER. And “Is Mr. Fowler in danger because he is defending you?”
Mr. HERNDON. That is correct.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Ruby answer those in a preliminary session?
Mr. HERNDON. During the preliminary session he did answer those
questions.
Mr. SPECTER. What answer to each question did he give?
Mr. HERNDON. To the question “Do you think members of your family are
now in danger because of what you did?” he replied “Yes.”
In regard to the question “Is Mr. Fowler in danger because he is
defending you?” Mr. Ruby replied “Yes.”
Mr. SPECTER. Have you now given all the significant findings on series
No. 10?
Mr. HERNDON. Yes; I have.
Mr. SPECTER. I will now move to series No. 11 which we will mark for
this record as Herndon Deposition Exhibit No. 12.
(Herndon Deposition Exhibit No. 12 was marked for identification.)
Mr. SPECTER. Will you start on series No. 11, giving the relevant
questions, answers and any physiological deviation?
Mr. HERNDON. These questions on Series 11 were primarily asked after a
conversation between Mr. Ruby and Mr. Specter at which time Mr. Ruby
indicated he wanted some additional questions asked of him.
It was finally agreed upon that we would ask the three following
questions.
No. 1 just to establish identity “Are you Jack Ruby?” in which he
replied “Yes.”
Question No. 2: “Do you consider yourself to be a 100-percent American
patriot?” Mr. Ruby responded “Yes.”
And question No. 3 “Is all of the testimony given by you today the
complete truth?” Mr. Ruby replied “Yes.”
This particular series began at 8:57 p.m., and a review of the
physiological responses to these three particular questions indicate
that they are not significant. It is believed by the examiner at
this point, although Mr. Ruby said he was not tired in his general
conversation with the examiner, that he was probably somewhat fatigued,
and he was no longer displaying the usual physiological responses
expected during the earlier phases of the examination.
The total chart minutes of series 11 is 1 minute 10 seconds. I do not
consider anything significant to these particular responses other than
the fact that we obliged Mr. Ruby in asking them.
Mr. SPECTER. Was this polygraph examination excessive with respect to
length in your opinion, Mr. Herndon?
Mr. HERNDON. Well, it would greatly depend on Mr. Ruby’s physical and
mental condition of course. A doctor was in attendance during the
examination, and I repeatedly asked Mr. Ruby during the examination
how he felt and whether he wanted to proceed. I asked him on several
occasions if he would like to take a break or have a drink of water. I
cannot specifically state that it did or did not appear to hinder his
health or cause him any undue fatigue.
However, I did hear the doctor indicate that there was no undue
physical stress or strain on Mr. Ruby during the examination.
Mr. SPECTER. Up until the points where you have indicated there were
some signs of tiredness, did Mr. Ruby appear to be responding in a
satisfactory manner?
Mr. HERNDON. I would say during the first several series of questions,
and based on the presumption again that Mr. Ruby was rationally sound
and competent during this phase of the examination, that he responded
very normally, and the polygraph examination proceeded without any
technical difficulties.
Mr. SPECTER. Was Mr. Ruby given periodic breaks throughout the course
of the examination in addition to that lengthy one between series 4 and
series 5?
Mr. HERNDON. Yes; he was given a number of breaks and there was no
time when he was asked a long series of questions inasmuch as the
total chart, minutes on my charts indicate none of them went beyond
3 minutes, which is certainly considered well within standard series
total chart minutes.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add which you think would be
helpful to the President’s Commission?
Mr. HERNDON. Yes. I would like to make a few additional comments with
regard to this polygraph examination, in view of the fact that it was
somewhat unique and unusual. I think these factors should be somewhat
considered in the overall evaluation of the polygraph examination.
First of all, Ruby has obviously been extensively interviewed by law
enforcement officers and by the Commission and other people, and there
has been a considerable length of time lapse since the time that the
instant offense occurred of him shooting Oswald. These factors of
length of time and considerable previous interrogation would tend to
detract or negate any specific or definite conclusion that could be
rendered with regard to the polygraph examination.
The fact that there were other personnel in the room would tend
to negate a valid polygraph technique. However, here again I did
mention that this did not appear to bother Mr. Ruby. But it should be
considered and made a matter of record.
One other point I would like to mention, and that is the large
number of relevant questions asked Mr. Ruby during this particular
examination. This is not general standard procedure. However, I realize
that the President’s Commission wanted to cover many facets, and that
it was mutually agreed upon that we would ask the questions that the
Commission had originally drawn up for this particular interrogation.
In normal polygraph procedure it is usual to keep the relevant
questions down to perhaps several specific critical relevant questions
and work strictly on those, and in this particular examination we had a
large number of relevant questions to ask.
I think these are all factors that should be considered in the overall
evaluation of Mr. Ruby’s polygraph examination.
Mr. SPECTER. Thank you very much, Mr. Herndon.