Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HERNDON. “Just before you shot Oswald?”
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HERNDON. I realize this is based on your recollection, but if you
feel you can answer it “Yes” or “No,” fine.
Mr. RUBY. The trouble is I didn’t hear any sounds of voices—then, I’ve
got to say “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. It’s your recollection you don’t recall Blackie Harrison
speaking to you just before you shot Oswald?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Ruby, you answered the question “Yes.” Did you say
something immediately before you shot Oswald?
Mr. HERNDON. I was going to ask that on here and then ask him about
that again.
Mr. SPECTER. Yes; but I would like to cover it in advance. What did you
say to Oswald, if you don’t mind?
Mr. RUBY. I said, “You killed my President, you rat”—something like
that. “You killed my” or “our President, you rat.”
Mr. SPECTER. I would like then to modify that question, Mr. Herndon.
“Did you say anything to Oswald immediately before shooting him, other
than, ‘You killed our President, you rat’”? If that’s not too long. I’d
like that.
Mr. HERNDON. Well, just let me sit down and take a good look at that
question.
(At this point there was a conference between Messrs. Specter,
Alexander, and Herndon out of the hearing of others in the room.)
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Herndon, would you now read the question to Mr. Ruby
as we have modified it after consultation.
Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Ruby, the question will be this way: “Did you say
anything when you shot Oswald other than that what you testified about?”
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HERNDON. The testifying about was pertaining to those statements
that you’ve just told us here a few moments ago. Do you follow me there?
Mr. RUBY. The statement I made?
Mr. HERNDON. All right, I will proceed with the series again.
Mr. SPECTER. Let’s proceed with the series.
May the record show that Mr. Tonahill and Mr. Alexander have left the
room.
(Reporter’s note: 8:25 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. Are you ready to begin now, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. All right, if you will uncross your legs and put your feet
flat on the floor, please, Mr. Ruby, and are you comfortable?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. Will you look straight ahead during the actual asking of
the questions.
For the record, this is series No. 10.
(Reporter’s note: 8:26 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. I notice during the time—all the time I ask you questions,
Mr. Ruby, that you close your eyes. If that’s a way that you can
concentrate, that’s perfectly all right.
Mr. RUBY. That’s why—if I were guilty of something or if I were
trying to evade something, certainly closing your eyes would be less
advantageous for you to cover up something. Do you follow me? In other
words, closing your eyes means that I do want to tell the truth.
Mr. HERNDON. That’s what I want you to do—just concentrate on the
question alone and you have to make that decision whether you will
answer it “Yes” or “No”.
Mr. RUBY. In other words, if I was trying to cover up anything, I
wouldn’t try to get more of a vision of what you’re trying to refer me
to.
Mr. HERNDON. All right, if you will look straight ahead now, and sit
perfectly still, we will begin, and I will let you know when we’re
going to ask the first question.
Mr. RUBY. In other words, I’m trying to be more emphatic with the truth
when I close my eyes—more than the truth.
Mr. HERNDON. Would you put your complete left hand on that arm
rest—that’s it.
(Reporter’s note: 8:27 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. The test will now begin.
“Is your name Jack Ruby?”
Mr. RUBY. “Yes.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Were you at the Parkland Hospital at any time on Friday?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Did you say anything when you shot Oswald other than what
you’ve testified about?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. “Have members of your family been physically harmed
because of what you did?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.” May I interrupt?
Mr. HERNDON. Just sit perfectly still. We will discuss the questions
later, Mr. Ruby.
“Do you think members of your family are now in danger because of what
you did?”
Mr. Ruby (no response).
Mr. HERNDON. “Is Mr. Fowler in danger because he is defending you?”
Mr. Ruby (no response).
Mr. HERNDON. “Did ‘Blackie’ Hanson speak to you just before you shot
Oswald?”
Mr. RUBY. “No.”
Mr. HERNDON. That will conclude that series, and just sit still a
moment, Mr. Ruby, and I will let the pressure out. Now, as soon as I
shut this off, we will discuss these questions.
(Reporter’s note: 8:30 p.m.)
Mr. HERNDON. On that series of questions, Mr. Ruby, you failed to
respond or answer one or two of these questions, which I’ll give you an
opportunity now to make any comment you wish to make about them.
Question No. 5, I asked, “Do you think members of your family are now
in danger because of what you did?”
Mr. RUBY. Well, they’re always exposed to it, so I don’t know how to
answer that.
Mr. HERNDON. In other words, you felt it would be difficult for you to
say either “Yes” or “No”; is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right; the same way with Fowler. I know when he’s
representing me, he’s putting himself on the spot.
Mr. WOOD. Neither the court reporter nor I got the last name of
“Blackie”—exactly.
Mr. HERNDON. I believe I said “Harrison.” That’s the way I had it in
my notes, but perhaps you might have gotten the impression I said
“Hanson.” You knew who I was talking about, Mr. Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HERNDON. That’s the main thing that you knew exactly who I meant.
Mr. SPECTER. I believe you said “Harrison.”
Mr. Ruby, are there any other questions which you would like to be
covered with you?
Mr. HERNDON. Excuse me, Mr. Specter, I have one more question here. For
my records—he did not respond to question No. 6. If you want, I can go
over that and we can discuss that question without any response.
Mr. SPECTER. No; I’d like to discuss that. Mr. Tonahill and Mr.
Alexander have already returned to the room, and I would like to
discuss that if it’s all right with you here. Let the record show that
we would like to cover that now.
Mr. HERNDON. Mr. Ruby, on that last series, I asked a question, “Is Mr.
Fowler in danger because he is defending you?” You remained silent,
which is one of the instructions I gave you, if you so pleased to do.
Would you at this time indicate to me why you wanted to remain silent?
Mr. RUBY. Well, No. 1, this is quite a notorious thing, and don’t
forget, it’s just like I specified when Earl Warren was in danger, you
know, so he is—in other words, people have a dislike for me, and Mr.
Fowler is trying to defend me, and this won’t make him too popular a
person—too well liked of a person, I should say.
Mr. HERNDON. Then, you just simply didn’t want to come out with a “Yes”
or “No” answer?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; because I wouldn’t know how to answer that.
Mr. HERNDON. All right, Mr. Specter. Thank you.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Ruby, do you now have any other questions which you
would like us to ask you on this polygraph examination?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; “At what time did I first think of wanting—when was the
first time it ever entered my mind that I wanted to commit this act?”
Mr. SPECTER. You mean the shooting of Oswald?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. We asked you that.