Mr. HUBERT. Let me put it this way—you knew he had the $14,000—you
don’t know whether he had any debts or anything that would have
consumed that $14,000, is that what you are saying?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when did you move to Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. In 1955—I moved here in July 1955.
Mr. HUBERT. And what was the occasion for your coming here?
Mr. RUBY. I sold out to my brother Earl in March of 1955 and at that
time my youngest boy, Brion, had a little asthma difficulty and my
sister Eva, who was residing in Chicago at the time, suggested that
I come to Dallas and look into the building of homes in Dallas. She
had some friends who were in the business of building homes, and I
did build one residence in Oak Cliff, that is part of Dallas, in
association with this lady friend of hers, and subsequently this woman
I built the home with, she liked the home so well she bought it from
me and I realized at the time that these building tradesmen here were
kind of hard to get along with. In other words, they—some of them would
drink on the job and material would be missing from the job and I
thought I would rather get into something else that I was more familiar
with.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, as I understand it, then, after you sold your
interest to Earl, you made the decision to move to Dallas on a
permanent basis?
Mr. RUBY. I came down here for a visit first.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you decide to make this your home—to make Dallas
your home?
Mr. RUBY. After I sold out the company to Earl in March, I came down
here in April.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that what you considered to be your permanent move to
Dallas—in April?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I came down here for a visit and I decided I liked
Dallas very much and I went back up north and, of course, at that time
I was in the business of building this home and I told my wife—I called
her on the phone and told her that we are going to move to Dallas
and I went up there in the latter part of June and helped pack our
furnishings and belongings and had them moved down here by truck.
Mr. HUBERT. You had already finished building the home here you were
talking about?
Mr. RUBY. No; I was in the process of building it.
Mr. HUBERT. After you moved down here and that was in the summer of
1955, as I understand you, and after you had finished this building
venture which you decided you didn’t want to continue in, what business
did you go into by way of making a living?
Mr. RUBY. I went into—it was also the advertising specialty
business—then with two fellows who were at that time engaged in it.
They had a company under the trade name of Atlas American Specialties
Co., I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of the two men you are speaking of?
Mr. RUBY. One was Sam Lasser (spelling) L-a-s-s-e-r, and the other
fellow was named Norman Weisbrod.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you have covered those transactions in your
statements.
Mr. RUBY. I believe I have—I don’t think they asked me those questions,
although I did mention that they were friends of Jack’s.
Mr. HUBERT. But you actually were business partners with them?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did that last?
Mr. RUBY. That lasted until June 1956.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, what was the occasion of breaking that up, or what
happened?
Mr. RUBY. We manufactured a product that wasn’t engineered or designed
properly and we had a lot of rejects and we were having to pay freight
both ways and——
Mr. HUBERT. What was the product?
Mr. RUBY. It was this plastic spinner that you see on these wires in
front of service stations and used car lots and the weather—when they
are spinning around would force them to crack in half and they would
fall on the cars and maybe damage them and they weren’t satisfied with
them and we found out later that this man who made our mould for us
didn’t design it properly.
Mr. HUBERT. Where are Lasser and Weisbrod now, do you know?
Mr. RUBY. They are partners in the wholesale distributing business of
sunglasses.
Mr. HUBERT. In what city?
Mr. RUBY. In Dallas—I believe the name is Mode (spelling) M-o-d-e,
Imports.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you have occasion to see those people frequently?
Mr. RUBY. No; I haven’t seen those people in maybe—maybe for about 3
years.
Mr. HUBERT. They were friends of Jack’s?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Jack get you interested in this venture with these two
men?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he introduced me to them and he did say that they had a
very good business and that they were hard working fellows.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you invest any money with them?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. How much?
Mr. RUBY. $3,500.
Mr. HUBERT. When you dissolved, did they buy you out?
Mr. RUBY. No: the whole company was dissolved. We just liquidated it.
We paid all of our debts.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any part of the investment returned to you?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So, you lost the $3,500 in that venture?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. After that was completed, what did you do?
Mr. RUBY. In the latter part of 1956, I investigated this coin-operated
washateria business and I succeeded in purchasing and in installing a
new coin-operated washateria at 3608 Oak Lawn in Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of it?
Mr. RUBY. It was Speedy Wash, I believe it was.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was just a trade name?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you borrowed some money from some banks to do that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I borrowed some money from some banks.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any other ventures since that, or is that
still in existence?
Mr. RUBY. No; I lost my lease—my lease was up and Ward’s Drug Store
next door somehow managed to get the lease on the store and, of course,
I had to vacate and discontinue that place, but while I had that
place of business I purchased the Bonnie Washateria at 2002 East 11th
Street in Dallas and I also purchased another washateria at 2524 North
Fitzhugh in Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you still operate those?
Mr. RUBY. No; I sold both of those.
Mr. HUBERT. How long ago?
Mr. RUBY. Well, this one at 2425 North Fitzhugh was the Ruby Washateria
and I sold that 2 years ago last March—let me see—that would be 1962,
wouldn’t it?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. In March 1962.
Mr. HUBERT. That was the last one you sold?
Mr. RUBY. No; that was the Ruby Washateria. Then, the Bonnie
Washateria, which was at 2002 East 11th Street, I sold just last
December, I believe it was.
Mr. HUBERT. Whom did you sell that to?
Mr. RUBY. To a Mr. George Cernorsky.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the purpose of your selling it?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I had a lot of competition—there was a new washateria
opened up there on the street from me about a block away next to a
supermarket and I was sort of in an isolated corner myself and also
I was at that time engaged in extensive repair work and I tried to go
more into the repair of washing machines and I thought it was taking a
lot of my time and I wasn’t making any money there and in fact I was
losing money, and I thought—why have something like that on your hands
and I would rather devote my time to repair work.
Mr. HUBERT. And that’s what you have done?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that’s what you are doing now?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; but I also since that time—I also purchased a little
manufacturing business in Coppell, Tex., which of all days, I purchased
it on November 20, 1963.
Mr. HUBERT. What kind of business is that?
Mr. RUBY. It was a little stuffed animal business and the name of the
company was the Autographic Mascots that they use around these colleges
and universities and high schools—all of these schools have little
mascots, you know, and the purpose was to have these kids—these various
classes—have their classmates autograph them as sort of a remembrance
or souvenir of their school days.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you still operating that?
Mr. RUBY. No; we sold that—we just sold that recently—April the 15th
this party took over complete possession of it.
Mr. HUBERT. Whom did you sell it to?
Mr. RUBY. To Mrs. M. Frances Cole, I believe her name is.
Mr. HUBERT. C-o-l-e (spelling)?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Is she operating it now?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I understand that you loaned some money to Jack in
1955; is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. How much and under what circumstances?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he said he was having difficulty in paying his Federal
excise taxes and I let him have $1,000, and then sometime later—that
was probably in May or June of 1955 when I let him have the $1,000,
and then sometime later—that was probably May or June when I let him
have the $1,000 and later that summer, it may have been in July or
August, I let him have $4,500, and he had some more difficulty with the
Government on his Federal excise tax and he had to pay off these taxes
or they would have padlocked his club—it was the Vegas Club.
Mr. HUBERT. When you made these loans to Jack, did you receive any
evidence of the loan, such as a note?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir; I had him make out a bill of sale to me for the
Vegas Club.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that recorded in any way?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I think I still have it at home—I think I still have it
at home. I don’t remember whether it was recorded or not—the attorney
made it out.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand that you had to file a legal proceeding
against Jack in order to recover your money?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. A judgment for it?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that a contested suit—did you file suit against him?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. This bill of sale, was that sort of a security device or
actual transaction of sale?
Mr. RUBY. It was an actual transaction of sale and also a security.
Mr. HUBERT. What you did—you sued on the note, I assume, that was
involved; is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. No; we sued that I was the legal owner of the business and
that he told me he would—in December he said he would purchase the club
from me. He wasn’t satisfied with me as a partner and he said he was
going to buy me out, but he failed to meet his financial promises and
so I kept calling him and so I wasn’t getting any satisfaction and I
hired an attorney. Mr. Harold I. Berman.
Mr. HUBERT. And then he filed suit on your behalf?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And he obtained a judgment?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that a contested suit or did it go by default?
Mr. RUBY. It was contested—he had his attorney there, Mr. Klepak.
Mr. HUBERT. He actually went to trial?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you won the case?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And the result of the judgment was that you were declared
to be the owner of the Vegas; is that it?
Mr. RUBY. Well, that Jack should—he agreed to pay me the amount of
money he owed me, which at that time amounted to about $4,500. He had
paid me some money.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that after you obtained the judgment that he agreed to
pay you?
Mr. RUBY. Well, it was during the judgment—that’s the way we settled it
in court.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, the case was compromised, was it?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And the compromise was that he agreed to pay you—what sum
of money?
Mr. RUBY. $4,500—that was the balance that he owed me at the time—at
that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Then didn’t he then execute a note to you or was that just
simply part of the judgment?
Mr. RUBY. That was part of the judgment and we have a legal document
showing that the judgment was entered and agreed upon and I think was
signed by the judge, and I have that document at home. It’s still on
file in the records building—it has never been removed.
Mr. HUBERT. Has the $4,500 been paid off?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How much is yet due upon it?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, about $1,300 or so.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it to be paid off in installments or any period of time
or just what was the arrangement or compromise made?
Mr. RUBY. I believe he gave me a thousand dollars in the Court that
day and they had to take a hundred dollars off for his attorney—his
attorney wanted a hundred dollars from that thousand dollars, and so I
only received $900 and the rest was, I believe, to be paid off in $200
monthly installments.
Mr. HUBERT. So, that in any case there now remains a balance of $1,300
due on that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever live in Youngstown, Ohio?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. During what period?
Mr. RUBY. From 1939 to 1941. I registered there for the draft.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your occupation there?
Mr. RUBY. I was what they call a siding applicator—you know—these
siding manufacturers like Johns-Manville and Ruberoid and these various
other siding manufacturers. I worked for a construction company and
we secured contracts and I was one of their—what they call—shingle
applicator.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of the company? Do you recall?
Mr. RUBY. The National Improvement Company.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you work with it only?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was for a period of 2 years?
Mr. RUBY. I think it was 3 years—1939, inclusive—1939 to 1941.
Mr. HUBERT. And then you went into the draft?
Mr. RUBY. And then I worked in Chicago for a few months and then I went
and enlisted in the Navy in February 1942, and they turned me down
because of my eyes, and I went to the draft board and tried to find out
how soon my number was coming up and they took my name and address and
it was within the next few days that they let me know that they wanted
me to come down for an examination.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know Ralph Paul?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; very well.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you known him?
Mr. RUBY. Well, practically since I have been in Dallas—since 1955, I
would say.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you meet him?
Mr. RUBY. Through Jack at the Vegas Club.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you ever in partnerships with him yourself?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir—I forgot to mention that. I just recall that now. We
were in an ice cream business venture.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of that; do you know?
Mr. RUBY. I think it was the Rainbow Ice Cream Palace.
Mr. HUBERT. Where was it located?
Mr. RUBY. In Wynnewood Shopping Center.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened to that venture?
Mr. RUBY. It just wasn’t successful.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did it last?
Mr. RUBY. Well, let’s see—about 4 months I believe—March, April, May,
and June—I think it only lasted 4 months.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you had any other business arrangements or enterprises
with Paul?
Mr. RUBY. No—but I was in another business with a fellow named Robert
Eisman.
Mr. HUBERT. I-s-m-a-n [spelling]?
Mr. RUBY. No—[spelling] E-i-s-m-a-n.
Mr. HUBERT. What was that business?
Mr. RUBY. Washateria—we were partners in a coin-operated
business—washateria at the time—two of them.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of this?
Mr. RUBY. One was the—what was the name on it—it was on 1713 South
Ervay Street.
Mr. HUBERT. That was different from the other two you have mentioned
here?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did that arrangement last?
Mr. RUBY. Oh, about 3 years.
Mr. HUBERT. When was it dissolved?
Mr. RUBY. This is 1964—that must have been in March 1960, or 1961.
Mr. HUBERT. Is this man Eisman still in Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. No; he’s living in Fort Worth at the present time—he is in
the washateria—not washateria, but coin-operated washing machines at
the present time.
Mr. HUBERT. What caused you to dissolve that arrangement with Mr.
Eisman?
Mr. RUBY. We had an awful lot of vandalism there in that neighborhood.
They cut down water hoses and they would break into the machines and
there was just too much vandalism to be profitable.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever been charged or convicted of any felonies?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What has been your relationship with Jack since you came to
live in Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. How do you mean that?
Mr. HUBERT. Well, as brothers—do you visit socially often—you have told
us about some of the financial matters between you and I was wondering
what was the personal relationship between you?
Mr. RUBY. Well, outside of that difference we had about the club, he
used to come over and visit us for the Jewish holidays and sometimes we
would invite him over for an evening to dinner.
Mr. HUBERT. On the average, how often did you see him a year, for
instance?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I would see him, oh, maybe anywhere from three to six
times a year.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have other contacts with him by phone or otherwise?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; we talked to him on the phone on different occasions.
There was nothing important—I mean—just about maybe something about his
family or how he was doing or inquire about the children.
Mr. HUBERT. What about your relationship with his sister, Mrs. Eva
Grant?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I have seen her more often and we are off and on like
brothers and sisters and we argue at different times and maybe in a
week or so we’ll forget about it and make up. She has her own views on
things.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have occasion to see Jack during the period
September 25 through November 24, 1963?
Mr. RUBY. September—you say?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. RUBY. Yes—September 25, yes, I believe I did. I may have seen him
at the club one night and then on one occasion, I remember it was the
week of Halloween, because the man I was working for went out of town
and Jack called me—he called me—I don’t know whether he called me or
my wife called me, and wanted me to go to Fort Worth with him to look
at this twistboard factory which he was handling as a distributor at
that time and I wasn’t too anxious to go, but he insisted and he said
maybe if that distributing business went all right, he would like me to
become interested in that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go with him then?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I did. I had some work but I thought I could make it up
either later in the day or the following day—just repairing washing
machines. I was working for a man that had three washaterias at the
time and I took a ride with him to Fort Worth to see this manufacturing
plant.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you enter into the venture with Jack?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know to what extent he did?
Mr. RUBY. No; he told me that he was a distributor for these boards and
he was thinking maybe of going into the manufacture of them.
Mr. HUBERT. When did he tell you that?
Mr. RUBY. At that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whether your brother Earl had any interest in
it?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t know to this moment whether he does?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Jack never mentioned that Earl might be interested?
Mr. RUBY. No—no; he never mentioned one way or the other whether Earl
would be interested.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall whether you had any contact whatsoever with
Jack during the periods, say, from the 16th of November through the
24th of November—that would be about the week before the President died
until Oswald was shot?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; I think he called me on the phone a few times and wanted
me to go visit my sister Eva in the hospital.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir; I didn’t.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, do you remember any other contacts between you and
Jack other than the one you just mentioned concerning visiting your
sister in the hospital?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he may have called me twice on the phone—I didn’t
see him during that period. The last time I saw him was the week of
Halloween—it was on a Wednesday, I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, then, the last time you saw him was before
Oswald was shot?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. That was approximately a month or 4 weeks before Oswald was
shot?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right; before.
Mr. HUBERT. And you recall at least one telephone conversation which
you have just made reference to about visiting your sister in the
hospital?
Mr. RUBY. Yes—he was very upset about me not going. I promised him
I would go and then I happened to be very busy working for this
washateria owner and I thought it was more important I stay at my job
and maybe go at night, but he became very upset about me not going and
sort of became abusive.
Mr. HUBERT. That was all over the phone?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he contact you after the President was shot?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir—no, he didn’t contact me.
Mr. HUBERT. Did your sister do so?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, between November 22d and the time Oswald
was shot, you had no communication of any sort whatsoever with either
your sister, Eva Grant, or your brother, Jack Ruby; is that right?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you aware of his reaction to the President’s death
during the period November 22 through November 24?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir; I had no idea. I was busy at the time—I was working
for this man, Mr. Dean, and I also was doing repair work at night and I
was working pretty late at night and I would get home late and get up
early in the morning and had to be at the job at 8 and so my days and
nights were fully occupied at that time and previous to that, too.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you have stated in one of these statements that Mr.
Paul said he was going to give you 50 percent of the stock of the S & R
Corp.; did he say why he was going to do that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir; that was after Judge Sterrett denied an application
for a new license and he wanted to turn his 50 percent over to me so
that I should have the obligations of the club, which I wasn’t in favor
of because I didn’t have the financial backing to take it over. I have
never received that 50 percent.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did he want to give it to you?
Mr. RUBY. So that he wouldn’t have to assume any financial
responsibilities incurred by the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. And you refused it?
Mr. RUBY. I didn’t refuse him at the time, but I didn’t agree one way
or the other, but I suggested my sister Eva take over the 50 percent of
the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. Were any shares of stock ever delivered to you?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir; not any shares.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Burleson, do you have any questions you would like to
ask of Mr. Ruby?
Mr. BURLESON. Yes. First, Sam, have you, since this incident occurred
back on November 24, 1963, had an occasion to have any threats on your
life, your well-being, your future or that of your children, or your
family?
Mr. RUBY. Well, there was one man that called and said he was a friend
of Jack’s and he wanted to come over and he said that he was from up
North—I believe he was from Minnesota and he had come down here to look
for a job—he wanted to get a job and he was a friend of Jack’s and it
didn’t sound sensible or logical and he had talked to my wife, and we
didn’t give him our address or any other information and he said he
wanted to talk to Jack.
Mr. BURLESON. But you have had no direct threats?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. When was this occurrence?
Mr. RUBY. The conversation—well, my wife would know more about that, I
believe, since she talked to him—I believe it was in December.
Mr. HUBERT. You have never heard any more from this individual?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. Now, you have been visiting Jack recently, have you not,
in jail?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us what you found Jack’s condition to be since
the verdict and at the present time?
Mr. RUBY. Well, to be frank with you, I always thought there was
something odd about Jack, but I thought he was just the type of a
person that’s hard to get along with and that was before—years ago—but
since I have been visiting him lately, his mental condition has
deteriorated very rapidly. He keeps saying that people are being killed
in the streets and he hears screams in the building of people being
slaughtered.
Mr. BURLESON. Are these just people or are these Jewish people?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he says, “People,” and then he says “Jewish people” and
he always imagines that Earl is killed and his children’s bodies are
being dismembered.
Mr. HUBERT. Does he say anything about Eva?
Mr. RUBY. No; he tells me to leave and sell my home and get out of
Dallas. He says that the police hate him here.
Mr. HUBERT. Does he tell you to do anything as far as self-destruction
is concerned?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; he has done that quite a few times. He says he is going
to take his life and I’ve tried to talk him out of it, and tell him
everything will be all right.
Mr. HUBERT. He said he was going to take his own life?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; and I have never heard him talk like that before.
Mr. BURLESON. Does he appear to be normal to you?
Mr. RUBY. No; he has that—I don’t know how to describe his look, but
he has sort of a look of a person that is being tortured or tormented
by something and I don’t know what you would call it, but it is sort
of a—he has that look in his face of not seeing you, like he is
looking—staring at you but not seeing you.
Mr. HUBERT. Does he recognize you?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; he does.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you last see him?
Mr. RUBY. Last Sunday.
Mr. HUBERT. How many times since his conviction have you seen him prior
to last Sunday?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I have seen him at least once a week.
Mr. HUBERT. And this condition that you have described that he has, did
it exist right after the conviction or was it a progressive matter?
Mr. RUBY. Well, it has been progressive and during the course of the
bond hearing and the change of venue and the jurors and the trial
itself—he didn’t seem to communicate with me very much. He didn’t have
anything to say to me, so to speak, like he didn’t have all of his
faculties, you might say.
Mr. BURLESON. Now, let me ask you—do you know anything about the
financial situation of the so-called defense fund—the money that has
come in for the defense of Jack Ruby, have you had anything to do with
it yourself?
Mr. RUBY. No; I had nothing to do with it, but I understand they sold a
story. Do you want to know about that?
Mr. BURLESON. Well, we know about that. That’s the newspaper story that
this Woodfield fellow bought?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. BURLESON. Have you personally received any money from any source
from persons who have contributed it to you to use in the defense fund?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You have not received even any money in the mail; is that
right?
Mr. RUBY. Not one penny.
Mr. BURLESON. And no one has given you any to be utilized for the
defense?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. Have you contributed any of your own, other than the
expense that you have been out personally during the trial and things
of that nature, have you contributed any?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. And have you heard from any members of the family who are
maybe more aware of it than you are that many large sums have come in,
other than this one for the sale of the news story?
Mr. RUBY. Yes: I heard that one come in from one of Jack’s friends in
Chicago.
Mr. BURLESON. Is that the $250?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was the friend, do you know?
Mr. RUBY. Kelman, I think his name is Joe Kelman.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know that man?
Mr. RUBY. Not personally; I met his brother years ago. His brother was
a personal friend of Jack’s, Morris Kelman, and they are, I believe, in
the auto windshield glass manufacturing business in Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Then, I believe there was another check of some sum from
Walter Winchell?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how much that was?
Mr. RUBY. My sister Eva said it was for $100.
Mr. BURLESON. You were reported as saying to some news media that there
was several thousand dollars?
Mr. RUBY. I didn’t say that. I said it was very generous—I didn’t give
any amount. I didn’t even say whether it was a dollar or what amount it
was.
Mr. BURLESON. Do you know of any other sums of money that may have come
in, of any substantial sum?
Mr. RUBY. No; I don’t.
Mr. BURLESON. That’s all I have. I need to go off the record for
a moment. I need to talk to Mr. Ruby on a matter that we had not
completely discussed.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Would you like to leave the room for your
conference?
Mr. BURLESON. Yes; please.
(At this point counsel Burleson and the witness, Sam Ruby, left the
conference room for approximately 10 minutes, returned thereto, and the
proceedings of Mr. Ruby’s deposition continued as follows.)
Mr. BURLESON. I would like to go back on the record and ask you, Mr.
Ruby, is there anything you would like to bring out—anything that you
would like to tell Mr. Hubert here on any version of the case, either
something we have already talked about, to amplify, explain that, or
either something new—some new area that you feel like that he would be
interested in?
Mr. RUBY. Well, I don’t know, except that I talked to some of the
people from the Liquor Commission, the Texas State Liquor Commission,
and they think that he may have felt sorry for the Tippit family as
well as the Kennedy family, and he always took it personally when
a police officer was killed. I mean, he made it his business to
contribute something financially when an officer was killed.
Mr. HUBERT. Who told you that?
Mr. RUBY. Well, they are up at the Liquor Commission in Oak Cliff—I
don’t think I know that just now.
Mr. BURLESON. That would be the Liquor Control Board—some of the
personnel there?
Mr. RUBY. I believe that’s it.
Mr. BURLESON. Do you know their names?
Mr. RUBY. I believe one was Johnny Cranks.
Mr. HUBERT. When was this told to you?
Mr. RUBY. Well, they called me up there to inquire whether I was a
member of the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. And then they volunteered their opinion as to what his
motivation was?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; that was what they thought and I talked to Jack a few
times at the county jail and he says he felt very sorry for the Kennedy
family.
Mr. BURLESON. Did Jack ever tell you why he shot Oswald?
Mr. RUBY. No; he never mentioned his name to me. He never mentioned his
name.
Mr. BURLESON. You were in the service?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BURLESON. I know one of Jack’s brothers was in the intelligence?
Mr. RUBY. I was in the Army intelligence.
Mr. BURLESON. You were in the Army intelligence—for how long?
Mr. RUBY. Well, we were stationed at Langley Field in 1942 and 1943
and a Captain Southern swore me in as an agent, to keep an eye on
Communists and Nazi saboteurs and to see whether anybody was leaving
subversive literature around for the boys to read, and if I did see
anybody acting suspicious to write a letter into a certain box number
in Newport News, Va., which was about 20 miles away from Langley Field,
and have a general theme, in fact, he says he checked up on my family
history and all of the members of the family, and to write just like I
am writing to my family, in fact he mentioned my brother Jack and write
a letter like you are writing, “Dear Brother Jack: Last night we went
to town and we had a few beers and we went to a movie and had a few
dances and Pvt. John Smith has been acting kind of queer lately,” and
he said somewhere in the letter mention that and they would take care
of it from then on, and I had to sign my name Johnny Newman.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the captain’s first name; do you recall?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t recall his first name, but his name was Southern.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you spell it?
Mr. RUBY. S-o-u-t-h-e-r-n [spelling].
Mr. HUBERT. And he was part of what organization?
Mr. RUBY. The Army Air Force—it was the Third Army Air Force based at
Langley Field, Va.
Mr. HUBERT. But what was the specific organization in which he was in?
Mr. RUBY. Well, our outfit was called the Tenth Tow Target. They
used to tow targets and train pilots at the same time for these
anti-aircraft guns, to fire these guns behind the planes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. BURLESON. Do you have anything else you want to bring out on any
subject or matter of any nature that you think either the Commission or
Mr. Hubert would be interested in?
Mr. RUBY. Well, all I know is that Jack had a very deep feeling about
this anti-Semitism in this country and, of course, with the massacre
of the 6 million Jews in Germany, and he had that on his mind quite
a bit, and he was the most religious of the boys in the family. The
brothers went to say prayers for my dad after he passed away for a
full year, which is customary, of course, we went for a few months—the
other brothers, but Jack is the one that went for a full year, and he
observed going to the synagogue more regularly than the other brothers
did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he, in fact, go to the synagogue regularly, do you know?
Mr. RUBY. Well, all I can say is that he went more regularly than the
other brothers.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you know that?
Mr. RUBY. Well, he used to call from there or when he would be talking,
he would say he was going to the synagogue and he was coming from
there, and in the conversation he would say he talked to the rabbi and
he would call and say he was going there and we would invite him over
for dinner or he would go early in the morning and we would invite him
over for a late breakfast.
Mr. BURLESON. Do you think of anything else you want to develop or
bring out?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir. Now, there has never been, Mr. Ruby, any
interview between you and me other than what took place in this room
since this deposition began, is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. So that all that has ever passed between you and me has
been recorded in this room—right?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Thank you very much. I’m glad to see you, Mr. Ruby, and I’m
glad you came down.
Mr. RUBY. Thank you.
Mr. BURLESON. Thank you, Mr. Ruby, and I will see you outside in just a
second.