Mr. BURLESON. Let me ask you this—you are now referring to the last
paragraph. “He concluded by stating that he has no knowledge of the
financial or corporate structures of the S & R Corporation or of the
Carousel Club or Club Vegas in Dallas, Tex.” Do you want to change that
in the light of what you have heard since that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s put it this way—when that statement was given, that
was true, you did not have that knowledge?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. What you want to say now is that you have found out
something since?
Mr. RUBY. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you tell us what it is?
Mr. RUBY. I found out that a certain amount of shares were issued to me
in the S & R Corp. and that I was a vice president in the corporation.
Mr. HUBERT. And you did not know that at the time you made this
statement?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Whom did you find out those facts from?
Mr. RUBY. From Ralph Paul.
Mr. HUBERT. And that is the only source of your information, is that
correct?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen the shares?
Mr. RUBY. No; I never have seen them.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen any of the books or papers of the
corporation that would indicate it?
Mr. RUBY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. But your sole source of information as to your present
statement is the information obtained from Ralph Paul?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you made any other inquiry about the matter?
Mr. RUBY. Well, we tried looking through the Carousel Club files up
there—they had these metal files. We went through those and we couldn’t
find any papers, any corporation papers and no one of the attorneys
seemed to have them at the time and Stanley Kaufman, who was a personal
friend of his, and he is an attorney here in town, he didn’t have them
and he didn’t know where they were, and we couldn’t locate them.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you invest any money for the purchase of the shares of
stock which apparently might have been issued to you?
Mr. RUBY. No; I didn’t invest any. Jack may have transferred some of
the money that he owed me as a financial transaction.
Mr. HUBERT. What you mean is that he owed you some money and he may
have issued the stock to you?
Mr. RUBY. To cover that.
Mr. HUBERT. As a way of paying the loan?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. But in any case he didn’t tell you he was doing so?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you any further comments as to Exhibit No. 3?
Mr. RUBY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I show you a document which purports to be a report of
an interview of you by Alfred Sayres, FBI agent, on December 5, 1963,
and for the purpose of identification I have marked that document,
“Dallas, Tex., May 29, 1964, Exhibit No. 4 of the deposition of Sam
Ruby,” and I have signed my name below that, and it consists of one
page, and I ask you the same question with respect to that document?
Mr. RUBY. Well, this first paragraph—I found out that he had—that he
did make a trip to Cuba.
Mr. BURLESON. Let me ask you—you are referring to the first paragraph
which starts off: “Samuel David Ruby, 11616 Jamestown Road, Dallas,
Tex., advised telephonically that he knows of no trip to Cuba made by
Jack Ruby at any time. It was explained to Mr. Ruby that if such a trip
were made it had been alleged Jack Ruby made the trip with a gambler
from Fort Worth, Texas. He suggested that such a person may have been
a man by the name of McWillie whom he has heard mentioned as a gambler
and a friend of Jack Ruby.” What do you now know in reference to that,
that you have found out since that time?
Mr. RUBY. Well, from Jack himself—this was in the Dallas County
Courthouse in jail, that Mr. McWillie sent him the airplane tickets for
him to go to Cuba and to be his guest while he was there.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you get that information from Jack Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. I don’t know—sometime ago—I believe it was during the
trial—during the course of the trial.
Mr. HUBERT. You visited him at the Dallas County Jail, is that correct?
Mr. RUBY. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. And during the course of that conversation he told you that?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ask him about it or did he volunteer the
information?
Mr. RUBY. I asked him about it.
Mr. HUBERT. And you think that was during the trial but before the
verdict?
Mr. RUBY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. About what part of the trial—do you remember?
Mr. RUBY. It was more or less during the beginning of it—most likely.
Mr. HUBERT. In February?
Mr. RUBY. Probably was.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you anything else to say about Exhibit No. 4?
Mr. RUBY. Everything is all right on it.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I understand that your name and Jack’s—the family name
was Rubenstein.
Mr. RUBY. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. And that you changed your name to Ruby?
Mr. RUBY. Correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Where was that change made?
Mr. RUBY. In Chicago, Ill.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was by a regular court proceeding in the courts of
Illinois?
Mr. RUBY. Right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And did you know that Jack had also changed his name?
Mr. RUBY. I didn’t know definitely whether he changed it legally.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know that your brother Earl had changed his name?
Mr. RUBY. We changed ours at the same time. We were in business
together.
Mr. HUBERT. What I wanted to ask you is whether or not the change of
name of you and Earl and Jack was by a common understanding, that you
all would change your name?
Mr. RUBY. No; just Earl and I had a common understanding. We were in
business together at the same time and we used the same attorney.
Mr. HUBERT. What business was that that you were in?
Mr. RUBY. We were in the advertising specialty manufacturing business.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the name of it?
Mr. RUBY. Earl Products Co.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it a corporation?
Mr. RUBY. No; just a company.
Mr. HUBERT. A trade name?
Mr. RUBY. A trade name.
Mr. HUBERT. Was Jack in that company?
Mr. RUBY. He was. He was in the company for about 2 years, I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was during what years?
Mr. RUBY. 1946 and 1947.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, how did he come to leave it?
Mr. RUBY. We had a little difference as to the policies of the company
and Earl and I more or less agreed on the way it should be run and Jack
had other ideas, and, of course, when we couldn’t agree, we bought him
out.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you pay him?
Mr. RUBY. I believe it was about $14,000.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, was that paid in cash?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; it was cash.
Mr. HUBERT. After you bought him out and you paid him in cash, did he
come to Dallas?
Mr. RUBY. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you say he came almost immediately?
Mr. RUBY. Yes; in fact I think he may have made some trips here before
we sold out, before he sold out to us—I’m not sure about that, but it
seems like he had come down here to visit my sister Eva—Eva L. Grant.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not when he
got here he had approximately $14,000 in cash, that is to say, when he
came to Dallas?