Mr. SENATOR. He says about which is all right. He has got a time there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you think your recollection now is more accurate.
Mr. SENATOR. No, no. All I want to know when it says about. In other
words, that means approximately a certain time, in that area, is that
right?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is right.
Mr. SENATOR. That is all. Let me ask you on something like this. Maybe
I ain’t reading this correct. “He said the fact that Ruby had the dog
Sheba to which he was very attached in the car when he went to the
police station alone would indicate that he intended to return soon.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. What is unclear about that?
Mr. SENATOR. It sounds like I was telling him that he went to the
police station. This is the way it sounds to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. No; it sounds to me like you are saying to Agent Moore
that because Jack had Sheba with him down there at the police station,
you draw the conclusion that Jack just went down there on a casual
basis and intended to come back.
Mr. SENATOR. All I know is that when he left the house he had Sheba
with him. That I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now do you draw any particular significance about his
having Sheba with him? Does the fact that he had Sheba with him suggest
something to you about Jack planning to kill Oswald and not planning——
Mr. SENATOR. I’ll tell you how this sounds to me like unless I’m not
reading it. It sounds like I told him that when Jack went to the police
office he had Sheba with him. That is the way it sounds to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. No; what Agent Moore, I think, is suggesting, at least the
way I read it——
Mr. SENATOR. You read it. Start with “He said.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, let’s read the sentence before that.
“Senator said there were several things that may not have come to the
attention of the authorities which would indicate to him that Ruby had
not planned to shoot Oswald. He said the fact that Ruby had the dog
Sheba to which he was very attached in the car when he went to the
police station alone would indicate that he intended to return soon.
Also, the fact that he had the cash receipts from the club in the car.
Senator said he was convinced that Ruby had emotionally worked himself
up to such a pitch that when he saw Oswald in the basement of the
police station he went out of his head.”
Now as I read those sentences, what you are saying is that if anybody
were to learn of all of the facts that took place they should pay
particular attention to the fact that Ruby had his dog Sheba in the car
when he went to the police station, because that indicates that Ruby
intended to come back from the police station before he went down there.
Do you still feel that way?
Mr. SENATOR. That he intended to come back?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That Ruby, if Ruby had intended—are you saying that if
Ruby had intended to shoot Oswald before he drove down to the police
station, he wouldn’t have taken Sheba along?
Mr. SENATOR. That isn’t what I said.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is not what you said?
Mr. SENATOR. No. I said I read that like it sounds to me. I must be
reading it wrong but it sounds to me like I said he was going to the
police station with Sheba.
Mr. GRIFFIN. No; we understand that you are not saying that at all.
What I am asking you is if you mean to say that in your mind Jack Ruby
would not have taken Sheba down to the police station with him if Jack
Ruby ever intended to shoot Oswald.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think he would; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But do you think he might have anyhow?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know. I couldn’t answer that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you saying now as you think about this further, the
fact that he had the dog with him is not an overriding fact in deciding
whether Jack had any plan to shoot Oswald before he went down there?
Mr. SENATOR. To my knowledge I would say that he had definitely no
plans. Now the money part——
Mr. GRIFFIN. But would you say this, that if Jack Ruby had planned,
let’s assume for the sake of argument that Jack Ruby planned to kill
Oswald before he went down to the police station. Now if Jack had that
plan in his mind, are you saying he never would have taken Sheba along
with him?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I definitely don’t think he would ever take the dog
with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What would he have done with the dog?
Mr. SENATOR. I assume he would have probably, wherever he was going
with the dog, maybe he was going to the club or what it is.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why do you say that?
Mr. SENATOR. What?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why do you say that?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, all I can say is I know how much he likes that dog,
and the dog is always with him, no matter where he goes.