Mr. SENATOR. Did we meet anybody else?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think so. I don’t remember but I don’t think so.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s come then to Monday morning.
What happened then?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Hubert, if you can let me interrupt you here before
you get to Monday morning.
When you met with Martin at the TV Bar, did you all talk about Jack
Ruby?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; there was discussion of it, that there and the
events. Of course, he asked me what happened after I got in there. I
told him. This detective, I guess, I just don’t remember who the man
was, they interrogated me and I told them the FBI interrogated me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Martin say anything to you about Jack?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think so. I don’t remember. I don’t think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he indicate whether or not he had seen Jack while you
were being interrogated by the police?
Mr. SENATOR. If I remember right, I think he said he seen him at a
glance behind us, I think it was the same window that I saw. They had
him in this room there and I think there were three or four men there,
something like that, but there was this glass partition. In other
words, you could see in. I think he saw him. I am not sure but I think
he saw him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Tom Howard at the TV Bar at that time?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t remember. I remember there was Jim, there was this
other attorney, but I don’t remember if Tom was or not. In other words,
I don’t want to quote and say he was or wasn’t because I just don’t
remember. He may have been now. He may have been there. I just can’t
think if he was or not that night. He may have been.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what your conversation was about at the TV
Bar?
Mr. SENATOR. No; of course, I told him—he asked me what happened, you
know. I told him I was interrogated by the local police and the FBI.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk about Jack’s defense?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now Saturday night, the 23d, you spent some time with Bill
Downey and Mike Barclay?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you see them?
Mr. SENATOR. We were sitting at a bar.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Which bar was that?
Mr. SENATOR. I think we were in the Burgundy Room and then we went to
another one there and had I think either one or two beers and then we
went home. At least I went home anyhow.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the other bar that you were in?
Mr. SENATOR. It was very seldom I ever went there. I’m trying to think
of the name of it. It is a short name too, and I can’t even put my
finger on it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What street was it on?
Mr. SENATOR. On Fitzhugh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where is that located?
Mr. SENATOR. It was on Fitzhugh. It runs off of, I think—down where
Travis is?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No.
Mr. SENATOR. Fitzhugh and Travis. I should know the name of it but I
can’t get it off my tongue. It is a short name too.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that anywhere near Hall Street?
Mr. SENATOR. No; this is uptown about I would probably say from the
downtown area I would imagine it would probably take you 10 minutes to
get up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you mean the time you spent with Downey and
Barclay—what did you talk about with them that night, Saturday night?
Mr. SENATOR. We talked about the occurrence of the shooting of the
President, that there. It was just a gloomy night. That is why I didn’t
want to stay long. I said I wanted to get home and they said they
wanted to get home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you had a date to meet them at the Burgundy Room?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I think I met them both by chance there. Now I am not
sure if I had a date to meet Bill or not, I don’t remember, but I think
Mike just walked in casually. I mean just happened to walk in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is Bill married?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how about Mike?
Mr. SENATOR. Mike; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they know Jack?
Mr. SENATOR. Who don’t know Jack in Dallas? They all knew him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk about Jack that night?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how much time would you say you spent with them
Saturday?
Mr. SENATOR. We went to that bar, I would roughly say maybe a half hour
to three quarters of an hour, I would guess around that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That was at the Burgundy Room?
Mr. SENATOR. No; that is when we went to this other place and had a
beer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All together, the time you spent at the Burgundy Room and
the other place on Fitzhugh how much time did you spend with them?
Mr. SENATOR. Maybe an hour and a half.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then when you went home what did you do?
Mr. SENATOR. I went home and went to bed. I think I took a newspaper
with me, if I am not mistaken and went home and went to bed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you get to bed at what you would consider an early
hour Saturday night?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I would say it was somewhere around 11.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How much sleep do you normally get, when you go to bed,
how much sleep do you normally put in in a night?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, of course, that would go according to what time you
went to bed, you know. It could be 4, 5, 6, 7 hours. I doubt if I ever
stay in bed more than 8 hours the most, if it ever happens that long,
which is rare.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So would it be your estimate that on Sunday morning you
arose by 7 o’clock?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I don’t think I got up that early.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If you didn’t get up that early, then would it have been
because you got to bed late that night after 11 or after midnight?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I must have been home about 11 o’clock that night. I
think I read a little bit but I know I was in bed before 12. I think I
was in the apartment around 11. I got home around 11.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You don’t think you got more than 8 hours sleep that night
or do you?
Mr. SENATOR. I doubt if I got more than 8 hours sleep.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then I suggest to you that in all probability you got up
on Sunday morning before 8 o’clock.
Mr. SENATOR. I would say around 8. Now mind you I got home 11 o’clock;
so I assume I got in bed maybe around 12. Now mind you it is not
necessarily that you fall asleep right away. Look, there is many a
night that I toss and turn for 4 or 5 hours and didn’t fall asleep,
which is rare, but it has happened.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have trouble sleeping that night?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I mean when I went to sleep, when I fell asleep I
slept well.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Hubert.
Mr. HUBERT. Now let’s see. I think we were at the point of Monday
morning, and I should like you to tell us what happened on Monday
beginning with the time you got up on Monday morning. I think you said
you slept at Jim Martin’s house.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you do the next day?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, I got up and I drove him to his office and I think
from there I went——
Mr. HUBERT. In your car?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I drove him down, and I dropped him off, and then I
went and had coffee. I don’t remember if it was around 9 or something
like that. He gets down about 9 in the morning.
Mr. HUBERT. Did anything happen at the coffee shop?
Mr. SENATOR. No; nothing particular, no.
Mr. HUBERT. Did the people there talk about Ruby and your connection
with him?
Mr. SENATOR. Talk to me about him? No; they didn’t say anything, but
they knew, you know. The people who knew me knew.
Mr. HUBERT. But nobody said anything to you?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. But the fact that you had been his roommate.
Mr. SENATOR. No; it was pretty silent. It was pretty silent.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened the rest of the day? What did you do that day?
Mr. SENATOR. I think I just roamed around in a fog that day, nothing in
particular.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t attempt to do your normal business?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I wasn’t in any condition for business. I didn’t feel
that good.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t remember seeing anybody that day at all.
Mr. SENATOR. I am certain—who I saw I don’t remember but I am certain
that I seen people; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You mentioned that sometime you saw Howard and you don’t
know whether you saw Howard the night before.
Mr. SENATOR. It is very possible that I may have seen Howard the next
day. I may have seen him. Now where or when I don’t know, you know.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you see him about? Can you tell us what the nature
of the conversation was?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, I heard that Howard was getting the case, the Jack
Ruby case.
Mr. HUBERT. So you went to see him about what? Put it this way, did he
call for you?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Or did you just decide to go and see him?
Mr. SENATOR. No; he didn’t call for me.
Mr. HUBERT. You went to see him?
Mr. SENATOR. I saw him sometime during that day.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you tell us what it was about, what you talked about?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t believe it was anything particular that we talked
about except I heard that he was getting the Jack Ruby case.