Mr. HUBERT. Perhaps you can tell us this then. Since he didn’t call
upon you, you called upon him, what was the purpose of your visiting
him? To find out the status of it?
Mr. SENATOR. Of me?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. To find out the status of Ruby’s defense, to see if you
could help, to see if you could throw light upon it, to find out what
was going on?
Mr. SENATOR. Everything in general was going on, you know. The
photographers were around and the newspapers were around, and I believe
he was down at the jailhouse. It is a conglomeration of things going on.
Mr. HUBERT. But you went to see him, and I suppose that was the purpose
of the visit, that was the purpose in mind.
Mr. SENATOR. No; there was no purpose in mind. It was just going to see
him. When you say the purpose in mind—I was so mixed up myself I didn’t
know what was going on.
Mr. HUBERT. I am not trying to confuse you.
Mr. SENATOR. There was no general purpose in mind.
Mr. HUBERT. What you are saying to us is then that you just went to see
him, Mr. Howard, and that there was no purpose in mind.
Mr. SENATOR. No particular purpose in mind. I saw him. I saw Jim Martin
later on that day.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you excuse me a minute. Will you take over.
(Short recess taken.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. I will simply ask you to remember everything that Mr.
Hubert has been in the practice of repeating before we proceed.
Mr. SENATOR. If I can remember it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To the effect that you are still under oath and we are
continuing under the same circumstances that we began.
I believe we were talking about Monday, and you had indicated that on
Monday you went to see Tom Howard.
Mr. SENATOR. I saw him. I just don’t remember where. Monday there was
so much excitement going that when I say excitement, of the occurrence
of the day before, and with your photographers around town and your
pressmen and whatnot, you know, and the incoming of the FBI and things
of that nature there, you know, it was a crazy cycle, you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to any members of the Ruby family that day?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think I saw them that day. I can’t quote every
instance.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about his employees?
Mr. SENATOR. I think I went up—let’s see, the club was closed Friday,
Saturday and Sunday, and I think they did open Monday, and I think
I was up there Monday night, if I am not mistaken, and, of course,
going up there you had all your photographers, especially the ones
from Europe and various parts were coming around. Of course, everybody
wanted to see what the Carousel Club was. You know, it was just a
mixed-up thing, so many things were going on there, and you were just
roaming here and there, and, of course, people were questioning. A lot
of people wanted to take pictures of me and this thing here. It was
just a jammed-up, mixed-up day.
I know I saw Tom Howard that day. I don’t remember where I saw him, if
I called on him or what it was because so many things were going on
there and my mind was in a muddle even with that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The questioning that took place on Monday, did it have to
do with what you had done on Friday, Saturday and Sunday?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What Jack had done on Friday, Saturday or Sunday?
Mr. SENATOR. No; there was nothing in general. I mean there was nothing
particular. I mean all my questionings—I mean all my questionings—I had
that Sunday you know, with the local detective or whoever the gentlemen
was, and the FBI man.
But Monday, when they wanted to know about Jack Ruby, they wanted to
see pictures of him. They wanted to see the club of his. They wanted to
see whatever they could get their hands on to see. They wanted to know
this about him and that about him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they want to know if he was involved with anybody
else, whether there could have been a plot or a conspiracy to kill
Oswald?
Mr. SENATOR. I am certain that probably would run through the minds of
everybody.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were they asking questions about that?
Mr. SENATOR. They have asked me so many questions that I can’t even
remember to think of them, you know, because there were so many
questions thrown at you. And when they are throwing them at you, the
general questions, they wanted to see the club, they wanted to see
pictures, who were the strippers, this, that and whatnot. There was
nothing precise except the curiosity of the things they wanted to see.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now when you talked with Howard, of course, Howard
indicated to you that you probably would be a witness for Jack, did he
not?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t remember the incident at that time. I don’t
remember if he said it or not because I would probably say it was a
little too soon at that time, the happenings, and I assume that Howard
was kept pretty busy at the beginning, probably going to see Jack Ruby
and this. You see, people were grabbing everybody.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When is the first time that you recall talking with anyone
about being a witness for Jack?
Mr. SENATOR. At that time it didn’t even enter my head. I wasn’t
thinking about that even. But as time went by, and I can’t specify just
how much time went by, I believe it was when Mr. Belli came into the
case. See, I don’t remember just how long it was from there until they
got this Belli.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this: After you heard that Jack had killed
Oswald, did you have any idea, did you think, why did he do it?
Mr. SENATOR. I hadn’t the slightest idea. I couldn’t imagine why. I’ll
tell you why I say that. Because he never at any time ever gave me any
indication of anything.