Mr. SENATOR. What I mean to say, the Federal Government, you mean tax
problems?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. I am certain he did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But I take it these were not things that he discussed with
you?
Mr. SENATOR. No; you could be friendly, friendly and all that there,
but you don’t know. I mean they don’t tell you everything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So what I am suggesting again or asking you again is if
Jack was not the kind of person who about certain matters which he
considered personal or important to himself wouldn’t talk about it.
Mr. SENATOR. No; I don’t think he would discuss everything; as a
matter of fact I don’t think there is any individual who will tell you
everything. I don’t care who they are. I am certain, I know there are
people, every little thing, I mean there are certain things they keep
to themselves. I would probably say like you, you, or anybody else.
They are not going to tell you everything about their whereabouts,
their notes, what they owe or what they don’t owe or things of that
nature. Everybody has a little secret or two.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To put it another way, you wouldn’t describe Jack Ruby as
the kind of person who as a matter of his constitutional and emotional
makeup had to tell you everything he was doing? There are some people
like that.
Mr. SENATOR. You mean would he tell me everything he was doing?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No; there are some people who are the kind of people who
just somehow have to unload almost everything they are doing to other
people. Now Jack Ruby wasn’t that kind of person, was he?
Mr. SENATOR. Of what he thought you mean or his thinking?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or his problems and so forth.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think he would; no. I don’t think he would unload
everything. I am certain there are things that he may have owed or
certain discussions he may have had that I am certain he wouldn’t
discuss with me. I am certain he didn’t want me to know everything
there was to know, you know, like anybody else would. There are certain
things that an individual keeps to themselves, you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Go ahead, Mr. Hubert.
Mr. HUBERT. I want to pass to the next day, which is to say Monday,
the 25th, unless you can advise me now that there was nothing of
significance that occurred on the night of the 24th after you had met
with Mr. Martin and Mr. Barclay.
Mr. SENATOR. You mean Sunday night?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. Barclay wasn’t with me Sunday night.
Mr. HUBERT. There was another attorney.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I didn’t say Barclay. I don’t remember his name.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t remember his name?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t see Tom Howard that night?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know if I did or not. I don’t remember if I saw
him or not that night.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you go to bed early?
Mr. SENATOR. You see I can’t quote if I did or didn’t. I just don’t
remember if I did.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember what time you went to bed at Jim Martin’s
house?
Mr. SENATOR. No; it could have been 11, 12, I don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. As I remember it, you said you met them at about 6 or 7. It
was dark in any case?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. You stayed about a half hour and you left?
Mr. SENATOR. What?
Mr. HUBERT. You stayed about a half hour in the beer place?
Mr. SENATOR. It may have been a half hour, it may have been an hour, I
don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. And you left and went to Jim Martin’s?
Mr. SENATOR. I believe we went to Jim Martin’s house. I think that I
slept there that first night.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you meet anyone else that first night or speak to
anyone else that first night, that is November the 24th, 1963?
Mr. SENATOR. November 24?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. Are you talking about Friday?
Mr. HUBERT. No; November 24 was a Sunday.
Mr. SENATOR. No; because I was wrapped up. I was wrapped up in the
courthouse all that day.
Mr. HUBERT. No; I mean to say after you left the beer parlor, which I
think you said was the TV Bar?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You said you think you went to Jim Martin’s house?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t remember if I met Tom Howard. I just don’t
remember the incident but I am almost certain that I went there to
sleep.
Mr. HUBERT. You went to Jim Martin’s house?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.