Mr. SENATOR. Just at the door.
Mr. HUBERT. Your operation insofar as the Carousel is concerned was not
like it was before?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Not on a daily basis?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Just at night, not every night?
Mr. SENATOR. Normally I would come in on Friday and Saturday.
Mr. HUBERT. But you were still at your job?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; after all I was staying there and felt he was
entitled to something, you know, so I’d come in there and help him.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you assist in the cooking or anything of that sort?
Mr. SENATOR. There was no food. The only food there was, they make
pizzas once in a while.
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t mean at the Carousel, I mean at the house, the
apartment.
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, yes; but I couldn’t cook right for him. He is a funny
guy in cooking.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you do any cooking there at all?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes. If I don’t broil right for him, if I make him eggs,
it has got to be so much of this in the butter because he was watching
his diet, and I got so tired of it I says, “Make your own eggs.” You
just couldn’t make anything right for him. And all meats had to be
broiled. He don’t believe in fried stuff. And he was just hard to cook
for.
Mr. HUBERT. The routine then I suppose is that you were working and
you would come back to the apartment after normal working hours, which
would be around when, 5 or 6 in the evening?
Mr. SENATOR. To cook for him? That would be rare. I got away from that.
Mr. HUBERT. I am getting to the normal routine as to your relationship.
You had a regular working day I take it?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Which started off at 8 or so in the morning?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And ended up at 5 or 6 in the evening? He, on the other
hand, would be sleeping in the morning?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And I understand would leave the apartment after you got
back at night or before, as a normal thing?
Mr. SENATOR. It wasn’t always necessarily that I came home between 5
and 6 because many times I stayed out.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there any kind of a pattern at all to your living in
point of time?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, no; there is no particular pattern.
Mr. HUBERT. What about weekends? Was that different?
Mr. SENATOR. No; not particularly. First of all I always get up before
he does, whether I am working or otherwise.
Mr. HUBERT. You would help him at the club?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. On weekends and if you did I suppose you came back about
the same time he did?
Mr. SENATOR. At night? Yes. But as far as I getting up in the morning,
I always got up much earlier than he did. It was just natural. It was
natural for me to get up, and it doesn’t make any difference what
particular time I went to bed at 2, 3, 4 or 5, I am of that nature that
I get up.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your regular rising time?
Mr. SENATOR. I would say 7, 7:30, sometimes 6 in the morning. A lot of
times it would probably depend what time I go to bed. If I go to bed at
10 o’clock at night I probably wake up at 5 or 5:30 in the morning.
Mr. HUBERT. What about on weekends?
Mr. SENATOR. On weekends? Say like a Sunday. I would probably wake up
at 7:30 or 8 o’clock in the morning on Sunday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Has it been your habit when you get up in the morning you
make yourself a breakfast or what do you do?
Mr. SENATOR. No. I will tell you, when I wake up in the morning I want
coffee, but I don’t have that appetite in the morning when I get up. It
is very rare that I will eat the moment I wake up in the morning. But I
get hungry maybe an hour or two later or something like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So on a working day would you go to work, grab a cup of
coffee and go to work?
Mr. SENATOR. No, no; on working days I go downtown and have my coffee.
I don’t even make it there. Never. I don’t sit there and make coffee in
the morning.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any particular place that you eat at regularly?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where?
Mr. SENATOR. I had a hangout. The Eat Well. There is three places that
I normally went to. Eat Well, I always went there every morning, even
on Sunday, and then the Chefette. Down where the Chefette is in the
Hotel Adolphus and then the Walgren also in the Hotel Adolphus. Those
are the three places I normally was always in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any regular place where you ate lunch?
Mr. SENATOR. No; there is no particular—I mean I don’t pick my spot
where I eat lunch.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What would you do about dinners?
Mr. SENATOR. Dinners I normally would like to go home, for meal, but I
ate more when I was living with Stan or by myself than I did with Jack,
because I just can’t cook of his nature.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Jack in the habit of coming home for dinner?
Mr. SENATOR. A lot of times, yes; and then I would probably say maybe;
on rare occasions, no. It wasn’t necessarily that he had to be home for
dinner because there were many times he also ate out. But he was hard
on food, even at a restaurant he was not easy. It had to be so-so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did the shopping?
Mr. SENATOR. Jack did the shopping. I couldn’t do no shopping. I can’t
shop for him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So Jack in effect would buy the meat for the meals and he
would plan the meals? Is that the idea? Then you would cook them?
Mr. SENATOR. He would buy what would suit himself, and if I didn’t like
it that is too bad.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have a regular routine of going to a grocery store
once a week and going shopping for a week or how did it work?
Mr. SENATOR. I would probably say something like that. Of course, it
all depends, you know, how much he is buying, how much he is going to
buy. But he always had a lot of meat. He always kept his refrigerator
pretty well filled. He’d buy grapefruits, half a grapefruit and
grapefruit juice like crazy. Holy God, you know he’d wake up in the
morning, the number one thing was that grapefruit. If he bought
grapefruit which he’d normally buy 6, 8, 10 of them at a clip, he would
cut up about 2 of them, 2 at once mind you, and put them through the
wringer and wring them down, you know, the machine he had home and
drink solid grapefruit juice, but from 2 of them, 2 whole grapefruits,
unless he had the frozen grapefruits which he diluted with water. This
is number one before he did anything, the grapefruit bit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did this pattern prevail both when you were living with
him the first time and when you were living with him the second time?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or was there some difference in your relationship?
Mr. SENATOR. No; there was no difference. His way of living was set
before I ever heard of Jack Ruby, his way of eating.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He would do all the shopping? Who would decide on any
particular evening what the meal was going to be?
Mr. SENATOR. I had no say. I had no say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would he call you in advance to let you know when he was
coming back for dinner?
Mr. SENATOR. No; no call; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What would you do? Did you have a time when you liked to
eat, if Jack wasn’t there that you would?
Mr. SENATOR. If he wasn’t there then I’d help myself or even if I made
a couple of eggs or whatever it might be. Sure, I mean there was no
particular time that I had to sit down and eat with him, because if I
wasn’t there he ain’t waiting for me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If you felt like eating dinner, would you go into the
icebox and pull out a steak and make some potatoes and do what you
wanted to do?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; sure, sure. If he wasn’t there, look, I am not going
to sit there and wait for him, you know. And he certainly isn’t sitting
there waiting for me, because I probably don’t know what time he is
going to be home and he probably doesn’t know what time I am going to
be home or sometimes we may be there together. But there was no set
pattern. There was no particular time.
Mr. HUBERT. I gather from all this, from the fact that your
acquaintanceship with Ruby ripened into friendship, and ripened further
in the fact that you were sharing an apartment together, that you got
to know the man pretty well as a man, and knew his habits?
Mr. SENATOR. I knew something about them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. His likes and dislikes. You expressed an opinion about
that already and that is what I would like to get to now with reference
to particular areas. You have mentioned the question of dogs, and I
would like you to tell us about what you know of him with reference to
dogs and his attitude towards them and so forth.
Mr. SENATOR. He had enough of them.
Mr. HUBERT. I gather from that you mean he had plenty of them?
Mr. SENATOR. He had a few dogs.
Mr. HUBERT. All the time that you have known him was that so or when
did that begin?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, I don’t know when it began because he had dogs the
first time that I got close to him or acquainted with him.
Mr. HUBERT. That is about 2½ years ago?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. But you don’t know anything about the dogs?
Mr. SENATOR. Previous to that I didn’t know anything about dogs before.
Mr. HUBERT. I guess the number of dogs varied, didn’t it?
Mr. SENATOR. It happened to be why he had so many dogs, his dog Sheba,
who was attacked by one of Sheba’s sons at a later date, gave birth to
six at one time. What are you going to do? He had dogs.
Mr. HUBERT. So he kept them.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes. He didn’t want to give them away.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did he keep them?
Mr. SENATOR. They were born in the apartment. He had them in the
kitchen until they were old enough, you know, whatever age that they
might be, a month or two, and then he brought them down to the club
and he puts them way in the back room of the club. He used to bring
everybody in “See my dogs.” Of course, his pet was Sheba, which
everybody in this country knows.
Mr. HUBERT. She was the mother?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; that was the mother of the whole crew. So he wound up
with——
Mr. HUBERT. Did Sheba stay at the club or at his house?
Mr. SENATOR. Both. Jack goes to the club, Sheba goes with him.
Mr. HUBERT. Sheba was always with him?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; this was the only one. I would say on rare occasions
he would probably bring the other dog home or two, just overnight.
Mr. HUBERT. He gave some of the dogs away didn’t he?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; Jack had close to 10 dogs. He had about 9 or 10 dogs.
Don’t forget Sheba had six at one clip.
Mr. HUBERT. What was his attitude towards these animals? Was it a
normal attitude that people have to dogs?
Mr. SENATOR. I know people have mentioned it to me before in the past
and the quotations that I have heard though I have never heard them
from him though I have heard them otherwise like “My family” or “My
wife.” I have read these. I am certain everybody else has too or heard
it. But he liked dogs. To me this has no meaning. To me it has no
meaning when he says this.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you hear these comments made by other people concerning
Ruby and his dogs prior to the shooting or afterwards?
Mr. SENATOR. What?
Mr. HUBERT. Prior to the shooting or afterwards?
Mr. SENATOR. Prior I don’t recollect. I don’t say—it had to be prior
to. No; it had to be prior.