Mr. GRIFFIN. Maybe I can find it for you.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I read it in there. It is in there some place.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This would be on page 284. Let me read the language to
you, and you can tell me if that is what you had reference to.
The paragraph at the top of the page which reads: “During the time she
was associated with Jack Ruby, Ruby was friendly with one Joe Bond when
he operated the club on West Commerce Street in Dallas, Texas. She did
not believe that Ruby and Bond were ever associated in any business.”
Mrs. NICHOLS. That is it. Yes; that’s right, I believe for a short time
that Joe Bond had an interest in the Vegas Club with Jack Ruby.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now has something happened since this interview, the
original interview that you had with the FBI that made you remember
that or think that Joe did have some business interest in the Vegas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I have just thought over the questions that they asked
me, and I recall that I believe that he did. I have been thinking it
over.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What makes you think that he did have?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I think that Jack Ruby told me himself that Joe
Bond had an interest.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What I am trying to get at here is, is there anything in
particular that made you remember this?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; nothing in particular.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there anything else in this interview of November 25,
that you think ought to be changed or corrected?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I don’t believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now let me hand you what is marked for the purpose of
identification as Dallas, Tex., April 14, 1964, Alice R. Nichols’
Exhibit 5356. This document consists of two pages, and it purports to
be a copy of an interview that you had with another FBI Agent, Mr.
Albert Sayres. I guess you talked with Sayers on the 25th, also, but
this interview was on January 18, 1964. Have you had a chance to read
that over?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes. I have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are there any additions or corrections you would make in
that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; that is correct.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now I want to go back, and I am going to ask you some
questions that are, some of which are biographical and some have to do
with Jack Ruby, and some helter-skelter. When did your husband die?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I was divorced in 1947, but he didn’t die until
1961.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he do for a living?
Mrs. NICHOLS. While we were married, he was with Commercial Standard
Insurance Co.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that here in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he do after your divorce?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I didn’t talk to him very often. He went into the
insurance adjusting business, his own business for a while. Then I
understand at the time of his death he was in the jewelry business.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There is a Nichols’ Garage here in town. Is that any
relationship to your husband?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; it is not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I believe also that the building that Jack had the
Carousel Club in is owned by the Nichols’ family or by the Nichols’
estate.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; I have heard that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that any relationship to your husband?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; there is no relationship.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to meet Jack Ruby?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I first saw him in a grocery store.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It was close to his Silver Spur nightclub, there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. South Ervay Street?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes. I was in a grocery store.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you living in that general area?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No. My mother lived close by.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you never met him before?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack come up and talk to you?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he didn’t. I had my daughter with me, and later on
when I was waiting for the bus to go home, he saw me standing on the
corner and he came over and introduced himself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About when was that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That was the early part of 1949. I don’t know the exact
date.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I think in your earlier interview with Agent Sayres on the
25th, you indicated that you thought you had met him in about 1948.
Have you had a chance to think since then so that your feeling now is
that it was 1949?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don’t remember. I started going with him the latter
part of 1949, and I don’t remember the exact date. It was several
months after I first saw him before I ever went with him. I would say
it was 1948, winter of 1948 and 1949, somewhere in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, is there anything by which you place it? You mean
that would have been late 1948, or early 1949?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I don’t remember the month.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any particular way that you place it at that period?
Anything in your life that is significant that would place it in late
1948?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I can’t remember whether the weather was cold or what
I had on; whether I was wearing a coat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean the particular year. Anything happen during the
year 1948 that sticks out in your mind so that you could date your
meeting Ruby in relationship to that event?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I can’t remember exactly when I first met him, first
saw him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How old is your daughter?
Mrs. NICHOLS. My daughter is 25.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So if it were 1948, she would have been about 9 years old?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; that’s right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you started to date Jack, how often did you see Jack?
Mrs. NICHOLS. It’s been so long ago. I think at first I probably saw
him about once a week, and then later on in the year or so, I would say
about twice a week, was about the most I ever saw him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Jack the kind of man that had any family interests or
seemed to show any interest in settling down?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, in settling down?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; in getting married and raising a family and leading a
conventional kind of married life?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He talked about it some for a period of time. Not all the
time I was going with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How would you describe Jack in terms of his impressions
and what he would look forward to and the kind of things he liked?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I think that Jack had a lot of drive. He was
ambitious. He was always looking for some way to make money, some
extra way to make money.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there anything in particular that attracted you to
Jack? Made Jack attractive to you? Any particular quality about him?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He was very nice to me. He always treated me with respect.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack, was he the kind of person that would unburden
himself to you with his personal problems and background?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, he talked to me about some of his problems. I don’t
know that he talked to me about all of them, but he did discuss some of
his problems with me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of problems did he seem to have?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, his business problems. When he lost the Bob Wills
Ranch House, he discussed that with me. He was very upset about that.
He lost a lot of money in that deal. He had to go back to Chicago at
that time, and he discussed his business deals with me—when he bought
the Vegas Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He didn’t seem to have any particular anxieties that he
would discuss with you? No personal problems; family problems?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, when his two brothers split up their partnership in
Chicago, he talked about that some to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he tell you about that particular problem?
Mrs. NICHOLS. He went back to Chicago that time to try to help settle
their differences.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know if this was Earl and Sam?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What seemed to be the differences between the two?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, I don’t know whether it was—well, I guess it was
just a financial, trying to work out. Sam sold out to Earl, and I think
it was just trying to work out a financial settlement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever indicate to you why Sam sold out to Earl?
Why Sam left the business?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I thought it was just because they weren’t getting along
together, the two brothers.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever tell you why they weren’t getting along?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You saw Jack then on a once-a-week or twice-a-week basis
until about what, 1956 or 1957?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes; and then after that I only saw him about once a
week. I saw him about once a week until the latter part of 1959, about
the latter part of November 1959.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you date that in 1959? What makes your memory
remember it as the latter part of 1959 as opposed to 1958 or 1960?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Well, the reason why I remember that is, I think it
was Christmastime, and we weren’t going together at Christmastime. I
remember thinking that I wouldn’t buy him a Christmas present.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he own the Carousel Club at that time?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; he hadn’t taken over the Carousel Club at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever talk to you about any trips he took?
Mrs. NICHOLS. The only trips that I knew he took were a few trips to
Chicago, and I knew that he went to Havana one time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many times did he go to Havana?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Only once.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember when that was?
Mrs. NICHOLS. That was in 1959. It was September of 1959.