The testimony of Mrs. Alice Reaves Nichols was taken at 2:15 p.m., on
April 14, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office
Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W.
Griffin, assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me state for the record that Mrs. Alice Reaves Nichols
is present, and before we began anything, she walked into the room
and she asked me if it would be possible to withhold her name from
the press. I told her I would check. I have talked with Mr. Hubert
of our office, to find out what the policy has been in the past, and
he assured me that in the past we have, on the request of witnesses,
not released the name to the press. I stated previously that all we
have ever released is the name. We have never discussed and will not
discuss with the press any testimony. However, we can’t give you any
assurance that they won’t find out you were here. For example, there
are newspaper reporters all over this building, and I don’t recognize
them and perhaps you will, and perhaps they might recognize you or try
to find out, if they don’t recognize you, who you are. Unfortunately,
anything they can learn about what goes on is something that they want
to print, so we can’t assure you that the name won’t go out, but we can
assure you it won’t get out from anything we do. I am sorry we can’t
give you any more protection than that.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I appreciate that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me introduce myself. I am Burt Griffin, and I am a
special consultant to the General Counsel’s staff of the President’s
Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy.
This Commission has been set up under a couple of governmental acts,
one of which is an Executive order issued by President Johnson on
November 30, 1963, and another one from the joint resolution of
Congress. The effect of both of these acts has been to establish a
Commission with a staff which has power to subpena witnesses and take
testimony and conduct an investigation and prescribe various rules and
procedures, and we are operating under these rules of procedure.
I might explain that under the rules of the Commission I have been
specifically designated to come here and talk to you and take your
deposition. Now the purpose of this deposition is to inquire into
all of the facts and evaluate the facts and report back to President
Johnson on the facts that have to do with the death of President
Kennedy and the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald. In your particular case,
Mrs. Nichols, you have known Jack Ruby for many years, and you have
been good enough to tell the FBI at some length what you knew about
him. We want now to see if there is any more that can be added by
this type of questioning. But we are also interested, I might add, in
anything you might know that might have any significance to the whole
investigation we are conducting.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I believe you got a letter from the Commission asking you
to appear?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I did. I had a telephone call first.
Mr. GRIFFIN. From Mr. Sorrels of the Secret Service?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; it wasn’t Mr. Sorrels. I believe the man said his
name was Howell.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Howlett?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you receive your letter?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I received a letter last Friday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I might also say, I don’t want to scare you by saying
this, because we say it to everybody, that you are entitled under the
rules of the Commission to appear here with an attorney if you so
desire, and it is not unusual that people do that. But I see that you
don’t have an attorney here, and I take it that you don’t desire one.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I didn’t think it was necessary.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Most people do feel that way. It is an expense, for one
thing.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I know several attorneys here, but I didn’t think it was
necessary.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, I don’t think anything will come up in the course of
your deposition that should make you feel you want an attorney. But I
always want to make clear that at any time throughout your deposition
you are free to stop the thing.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We try to be pretty nice, and I don’t think we will have
too many difficulties. Let me ask you then if you have any questions
about the deposition that is to be taken, before I ask you to raise
your hand and be sworn? Anything that you think you would want to know?
Mrs. NICHOLS. No; I don’t know of anything.
Mrs. GRIFFIN. All right, would you raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you give the court reporter your full name.
Mrs. NICHOLS. Alice Reaves Nichols.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that Mrs. Nichols?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was your maiden name?
Mrs. NICHOLS. My maiden name was Small: Alice Reaves Small.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live right now?
Mrs. NICHOLS. 8707 Redondo.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that in Dallas?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I hate to ask embarrassing questions of women, but could
you tell us when you were born?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes. February the 1st, 1915.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you lived in Dallas all your life?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I lived away from Dallas. I was born and raised here, but
I lived away about 7 years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was that?
Mrs. NICHOLS. From 1937 to about 1944.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you employed?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I am.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where are you employed?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Southland Life Insurance Co.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What do you do there?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I am a secretary.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you work for anyone in particular?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I am secretary to the vice president and treasurer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is his name?
Mrs. NICHOLS. John E. Mangrum.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now I want to ask you if you will hand me those two
documents that you have there?
Mrs. NICHOLS. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to mark them and ask you some questions in
connections with them. I want to hand you what I have marked as
“Dallas, Tex., April 14, 1964, Alice R. Nichols’ Exhibit 5355.” This
document consists of a number of pages starting with the No. 283, at
the bottom, going through page 291.
It purports to be a copy of a report of an interview that you had with
two FBI Agents, Mr. Albert Sayres and Mr. Paul Scott on November 25,
1963. I am going to hand it to you and ask you if you had a chance to
read that over before the deposition started?
Mrs. NICHOLS. I have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now is there anything in there that you feel is not
accurate, an accurate report of what you told the FBI on that day? I am
not referring to whether or not you, after thinking about it, that you
make some changes, but whether you noticed anything in there that does
not accurately reflect what you said at that time, and if so, whether
you want to make some changes in it?
Mrs. NICHOLS. There are a few things in here that I notice that are not
exactly right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, let me ask you if you would refer to the page
on which the mistaken material appears, and if you would read the
material that is mistaken and then we will talk about it.
Mrs. NICHOLS. I may have said it as it is here, but I know that I said
that I didn’t think that Joe Bonds had an interest in the Vegas Club.
But after thinking it over, I believe that he had for a short time an
interest with Jack Ruby. But I believe that at this time that I talked
with the FBI men, I had forgotten about that. But since thinking it
over——
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you pick out of there what page that appears on?