Mr. CRAFARD. Excuse me a minute, please.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. CRAFARD. You can just see a gentleman standing on the right-hand
corner of some of these photographs. This gentleman was the M.C. at
that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall who he was?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was Johnny. Yes; there is the box, one of his
boxes. It was Johnny, but I am not sure what his last name was. There
is a woman in one of these pictures; I believe I can just see myself,
but it is not clear enough to make out. I believe it is me standing
there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This picture that you are looking at, this large
photograph, is actually a series of small photographs?
Mr. CRAFARD. It is actually a series of small photographs. It would be
the first and second photograph in the middle series of photographs
where you can just vaguely see me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I want to show you what I have marked in the same
fashion Exhibit 5211. Do you recognize any of the people in that
photograph, that set of photographs?
Mr. CRAFARD. There is Johnny on the stage, the first one in the first
series. I can see Johnny on the stage again.
The next one shows Johnny.
The next one shows Johnny and, I believe it is Tammi True.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who is the heavy man in the short-sleeved shirt that is
shown?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember his name. He was to the club on several
different occasions. He always sat in the same place because he was
such a heavy man nobody could get around him, such a big one.
In the middle series of photographs shows Tammi True in each of them.
And on the outside series of photographs is Little Lynn in Jack’s
office holding some stuffed animals.
The bottom picture on the right-hand series shows Johnny with one of
his puppets.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this about the fat man in the short
sleeves. Was he a friend of Jack’s?
Mr. CRAFARD. They knew each other. They seemed to be friendly, always
talked, Jack would always speak to him when he came in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you associate any name with this man?
Mr. CRAFARD. I can’t remember his name, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was his name in any of the names that we went through in
the notebooks today?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember. I wouldn’t remember his name if I saw it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there anybody else who would know him? Would Andy
Armstrong know him?
Mr. CRAFARD. Andy Armstrong would know him; yes. I believe that Andy is
the one that first told me his name and told me to always seat him in
the same place.
There was only one chair in the club that he could sit on and we had to
go get it all the time when he come in and put it in the place for him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to show you what I have marked in the same
fashion Exhibit 5212, which is also a series of photographs.
Do you recognize any of the people in those pictures?
Mr. CRAFARD. The stripper is Little Lynn.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In all of the pictures?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the patrons? Do you recognize any of the
patrons?
Mr. CRAFARD. Only myself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where are you?
Mr. CRAFARD. This doesn’t look like me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that you?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; it is not me at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that you right there? You have indicated to me that
your photograph appears in a number of these pictures.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And let me indicate that you are in the photograph in the
upper right-hand corner, and you are the man in a black suit who is
seated second from the left along the runway.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And in the picture immediately below that you occupy the
same position?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The picture immediately below that which is the third from
the top, on the right-hand side you occupy the same position?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the stripper is Little Lynn?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then moving into the center set of pictures you appear in
the same position third from the bottom?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the same position at the bottom?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, is this suit and dress that you show here, is that
the way you were normally dressed at the Carousel Club?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. These pictures were taken as a photographic stunt,
also.
Mr. GRIFFIN. During the day, Larry, if you had occasion to go out of
the Carousel Club, were you also dressed in a suit?
Mr. CRAFARD. During the day, up until about 5 o’clock, I was normally
dressed in a pair of white jeans, a long-sleeved shirt or a pair of
corduroys as I was usually working around the club and I didn’t care to
wear a suit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked in the same
fashion Exhibit 5213.
Now, this picture was taken inside the Carousel Club.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Will you look at these pictures and tell me looking at the
picture in the upper left-hand corner, who that is?
Mr. CRAFARD. Johnny, the M.C. on stage with his three puppets.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And in the photograph right below that there are two
girls. Who is the blond?
Mr. CRAFARD. Kathy Kay and I believe Tammi True in the dressing room.
The next photograph is the same.
The next photograph is Tammi True on stage. Going to the middle of the
first photograph is Tammi True. The middle series is all Tammi True on
stage.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recognize any of the patrons in here?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, I don’t; except on the top picture on the right-hand
corner shows the heavy set man we have mentioned before in the same
position as before.
On the right-hand column it shows Kathy Kay on the top photo.
The next three photos are all pictures of Johnny with his puppets.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would that Johnny, would his name be Johnny Turner?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he the only M.C., the only man who was employed at the
time?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was the only M.C. employed at that time; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the only other employees he had at that particular
time were strippers or entertainers?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; strippers and the waitresses.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So let me understand this. That while you were there,
Billy DeMar was employed there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Wally Weston?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Johnny Turner?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And anyone else?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe that was all. I can’t remember who the M.C. was
when I first went to work for Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was it a different one other than the three we have
mentioned?
Mr. CRAFARD. I am not sure. That is what I was trying to remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did these M.C.’s have a regular run of a prescribed number
of weeks that they would play?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; maybe they might come in for 2 or 3 weeks, or they
might be there for 1 week and then they might stay for 3 or 4 months.
It would depend on the contract that they signed with Mr. Ruby.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Buddy Heard ever come and appear?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe he was ever there while I was there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to show you what has been marked as Exhibit
5214 and I want to ask you if you recognize any of the patrons in those
photographs.
Mr. CRAFARD. The heavy set gentleman that has been mentioned before is
in the second photograph in the left-hand series. He is in the first
photograph in the middle series. That is all. But other than that, I
don’t recognize any of the other patrons.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to hand you now what has been marked as 5214-A
and all the markings are in the same fashion as the previous ones. Do
you recognize any of the patrons in there?
Mr. CRAFARD. The patron in the second and third photographs on the
right-hand side looks familiar but I can’t place him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What I am handing you is Exhibit 5215 which is also marked
in the same fashion as the others. Do you recognize any of the patrons
there?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I show you Exhibit 5216. You will notice that this appears
to be the interior of a dressing room and there is some sort of a
plaque on the wall in the top two photographs in the center and the
photograph in the lower right-hand corner. Do you recall what that
plaque is?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, I don’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you state whether that picture was taken at the
Carousel?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recognize those as Carousel Club dressing
rooms?
Mr. CRAFARD. Oh, yes. The dressing rooms have been redecorated since I
worked there, I know that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did the dressing rooms look as they appear in that
photograph at any time while you were employed at the Carousel?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe that is the dressing room of the Carousel.
I don’t remember this stuff along the bottom picture, the left-hand
side of the bottom picture in the left-hand column. The plywood door
that is shown in several pictures, I don’t recognize that as being of
the dressing room at the Carousel.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked in the same
fashion as Exhibit 5217. Do you recognize the patron that is shown in
that photograph?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, I don’t, but I believe from this picture I can pretty
well state that that other last picture was photographs of the girls’
dressing room, from the location of the table. Instead of a door that
was a window that had been boarded up.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I show you Exhibit 5218 which has been marked in the same
fashion. Do you recognize any of the patrons in that photograph?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Exhibit 5219 which has been marked in the same
fashion? Do you recognize any of those patrons?
Mr. CRAFARD. Only that I believe this one has been showed in previous
pictures.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this a duplicate of something we already have?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe it is a duplicate, but I believe this
gentleman in the white shirt has been shown in previous pictures.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about 5220? Do you recognize any of the patrons there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Only this one gentleman here. I can make him out
especially in the bottom picture in the middle column.
Mr. GRIFFIN. With the white shirt on?
Mr. CRAFARD. The gentleman with the short-sleeved white shirt on I can
recognize him from the previous pictures.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you don’t have a recollection of who he is?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t have a recollection of who he is. I don’t think I
ever knew the gentleman.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, Exhibit 5221, do you recognize any of the patrons in
there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Only the gentleman on the right-hand would be the back
down in the picture towards the right-hand side would be the far side
of the stage the heavy set gentlemen that has been mentioned before.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know Officer Tippit?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever know a man named Bernard Weissman?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear Ruby or anybody indicate that Officer
Tippit was ever in the Carousel Club?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember of hearing any indication.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about that Bernard Weissman? Was he in the Carousel
Club?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember any indication of that, either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you ever owned a gun?
Mr. CRAFARD. I had a pistol, but it was in Oregon when I was in Texas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of a pistol was that?
Mr. CRAFARD. A .22.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you ever owned any other sort of a gun?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you were in military service, did you have any
training with a rifle?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I had training with the M-1 rifle and with the M-1
carbine.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you were in Dallas, Tex., did you ever have any
occasion to go out to any rifle ranges?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know whether Jack Ruby ever went to any rifle
ranges?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your answer is you don’t know?
Mr. CRAFARD. I did not know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. While you were in Dallas, Tex., did you attempt to
purchase an automobile?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you visit any used car lots?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever drive Jack Ruby’s car?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you drive an automobile at any time while you were in
Dallas?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever accompany anybody in an automobile to have it
repaired?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I believe when you talked with the FBI, you indicated
that you visited a store with Jack where he was going to get some
electrical or electronic equipment.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How soon was that after you began to work for Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think it was about 3 or 4 weeks after I went to work for
Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you talk about working for Jack, do you mean that to
include the time that you were working at the Dallas, Tex., State Fair?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. As working for Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. Only the time, from the time the State fair closed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what kind of electrical equipment Jack was
purchasing, looking for when you went with him?
Mr. CRAFARD. Some speakers and—that is the boxes that are used to work
a speaker out of, the amplifier box.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was he going to use these items?
Mr. CRAFARD. In the Carousel Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had he had those items there before?
Mr. CRAFARD. He had the items in the Carousel Club, but he was going to
replace them with some better models.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were his existing models defective in any way?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was always something going wrong with one speaker or
the other.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he actually replace these?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not while I was there; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What happened at the electronics store that you visited?
Mr. CRAFARD. He talked with the gentleman for a few minutes and I
believe he give them a free pass to the Carousel Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he do in connection with buying equipment?
Mr. CRAFARD. He had checked out some equipment they had there, their
prices, the types of equipment.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What price range of equipment was he talking about?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was wanting to get a better model amplifier as cheaply
as he could.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would this have been an expenditure of over $100?
Mr. CRAFARD. I really don’t know, but I don’t believe so. Could I go
back a little bit to the day. I believe that was about a week after I
went to work for Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you testified yesterday I think that the girl whom you
identified in some pictures taken on the street outside the Carousel
with Jack Ruby, you identified this girl as Gloria McDonald.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Could her name have been Gloria Fillmore?
Mr. CRAFARD. Her name could have been, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you sure about the name McDonald?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. In fact if I may be allowed to say so, I am not
positive that this girl is the girl I knew as Gloria. Her name could
have been something entirely different. I believe it was Gloria.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You believe it was Gloria in this picture?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you are not completely positive.
Mr. CRAFARD. No. I never knew her last name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me try to refresh your recollection a little bit.
Going back to Wednesday, November 20, 2 days before the President was
killed, and Thursday, November 21, do you remember on either of those 2
days receiving any telephone calls from Bruce Carlin?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe Bruce called the evening of Wednesday, the 20th
wanting to speak to Little Lynn. I am not positive but I believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now how about on the 21st. Do you remember anything on the
21st?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall anything, no. He might have but I don’t
recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you ever remember on the 21st a telephone call being
placed to Jack Ruby in the early portion of the evening, and your
answering the phone and talking to the person on the phone?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember it, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Bruce Carlin ever have occasion to call Jack Ruby in
your recollection?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember him ever doing so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever meet any of Bruce Carlin’s friends?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever meet a boy named Jerry Bunker?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember it, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Bruce used to call the Carousel regularly?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. There was only one or two occasions when I am sure
that Bruce called the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When are the other occasions?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was the evening of Wednesday the 20th Little
Lynn hadn’t went straight home from the club and he called asking,
wanting to know where she was at.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any idea of the financial condition of Little
Lynn or Bruce Carlin the week before the President died?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Little Lynn ever complain in your presence about not
having enough money?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe that when she first went to work for Jack, Jack
either gave her an advance or loaned her some money, one or the other.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I recall yesterday in your talking with Mr. Hubert there
was some problem you felt that you had lost 8 hours in describing what
happened on your trip from Dallas to your destination in Michigan.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In the time that has passed since then, have you been able
to find those 8 hours that were lost?
Mr. CRAFARD. Pretty well, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What do you think happened?
Mr. CRAFARD. I got mixed up on my routes in Oklahoma City and spent
quite a bit of time getting back. There is where I lost the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About what time did you arrive in Oklahoma City?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was about 7 o’clock in the evening of the 23d.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how did you happen to get mixed up on your routes?
Mr. CRAFARD. I got a ride with this gentleman and I believe he said
something about getting me out on my route or something like that, and
I got mixed up on my route.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ride with him in the wrong direction for a while?
Mr. CRAFARD. He took me out, he took me quite a ways more than where I
had to go.
Mr. GRIFFIN. On that basis what time would you say that you arrived in
Chicago?
Mr. CRAFARD. It probably would put me in Chicago sometime Monday, about
10:30 or 11 o’clock in the morning.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you arrived in Chicago, then you knew that Ruby had
killed Oswald?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what time did you arrive in Lansing, Mich.?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was about 6:30 or 7 o’clock Monday evening.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you arrived in Chicago did you make any effort to
call any of the Rubensteins?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did that occur to you?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; that arrival in Lansing would have been about 3:30 or
4 o’clock. It would have been a couple hours earlier.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You mentioned that the ride that you had got out of Dallas
on the 23d with a man whom you had met at the Dallas State Fair.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he do at the Dallas State Fair?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was a photography place on the fairgrounds. He
worked there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he a full-time employee at the fairgrounds or was this
a temporary thing?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe this was just temporary for the fair.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the name of the photography place?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember that, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there a number of different photographers at the
fair?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe there was two or three different ones at the
fairgrounds. This one was right close to the place I worked was located.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How far would it have been from a tent? Were you in a tent?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How far would it have been from your tent?
Mr. CRAFARD. About 150 or 200 feet.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In which direction?
Mr. CRAFARD. It would have been down on the main midway. It would have
been right on a corner of the main midway and the portion of the midway
I was on. We were located on a branch off the main midway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How old would you say this man was?
Mr. CRAFARD. I would say he was probably in at least his middle
forties, more likely in his late forties.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he bald or did he have hair?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t really remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he a graying man or what color was his hair?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember that either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if he wore glasses?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what kind of a car he owned?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe he had a Chevy. I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How would you describe his physical build, anything
remarkable about it?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not that I could think of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he a thin man?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was about medium build for a man his age and height.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you say he had a young boy with him?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; he had a son about I believe 9 or 10 years old.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you catch the son’s name?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about his name? Did you learn his first name?
Mr. CRAFARD. I more than likely knew his name but I don’t remember it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he do at the photography studio?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know for sure just what he did do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this a Dallas studio that had a place there?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there some central office of the Dallas State Fair that
would keep records of the people who had charge of tents or booths
there?
Mr. CRAFARD. That would be the fair commission would know anyone that
had any kind of a stand or concession on the midway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And where would this commission have its office when the
season was not in session?
Mr. CRAFARD. It would be on the fairgrounds. I am not sure where though.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There is some sort of permanent office there on the
fairgrounds?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; the Dallas Fairgrounds is one of the largest
fairgrounds in Texas. It is open the year around.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It is your belief that this man knew you worked for Jack
Ruby as he was taking you out of Dallas?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not until after we had got to talking and I told him I had
been working at the Carousel Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long would you estimate that you were with that man?
Mr. CRAFARD. Oh, maybe a half hour or maybe 45 minutes at the most.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And it is your belief that he had a cottage at some sort
of a lake?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What place?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember the name of the lake he lived on, that he
had his cottage on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you remember somewhat where he left you off and in
what direction he had to turn?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe he went to the left of 77 when he let me off.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You left Dallas on route 77?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how far would you say you went on route 77?
Mr. CRAFARD. We were about 20 miles outside the city limits of Dallas
at Carrollton, Tex.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He let you off in Carrollton?
Mr. CRAFARD. Just the other side of Carrollton a little ways.
Mr. GRIFFIN. North of Carrollton?
Mr. CRAFARD. Just north. Not very far. It couldn’t have been more than
maybe a mile.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this some sort of main intersection he let you off at?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe so, yes; the main entry for the Carrollton
traffic on the north side of town.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were at route 77 and the corner of some other road?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was just one of the so-called farm roads of
Texas. They have got a lot of the roads numbered farm road such and
such.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there a sign up there that pointed to a lake that this
man had to turn to?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you get any idea how large a lake it was? Was it a
resort area?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall that either, sir. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you do recall that the man had a cottage or something
of that sort on the lake?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; he was going up to work on his cottage when he picked
me up.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We talked at lunchtime about a man who called the Carousel
during the week before the President was assassinated.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And would you tell us about these calls?
Mr. CRAFARD. Is that the one where I said he wouldn’t give his name or
anything?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is the one I had in mind.
Mr. CRAFARD. This gentleman would call maybe two or three times a day
asking for Jack. He would ask where he could reach Jack. It sounded
like it was pretty important that he reach Jack, and that he would
never leave a number where Jack could call him back at.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever give this man a number?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I can recall, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what time of the day or night this man would
call?
Mr. CRAFARD. It would usually be during the day. I can’t recall any
specific time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did this man ever wake you up?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; it was always well after 9 o’clock, I know that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did it ever appear to be around lunch hour?
Mr. CRAFARD. It could have been anywhere from 9 o’clock to 6 o’clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he seem to call at regular times when he called?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you describe his voice in terms of age?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I couldn’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did this man call on Friday, November 22?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t really remember whether he did or not. I don’t
believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about on the morning of the 23d, Saturday the 23d?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he call the day before the President was assassinated?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe he called sometime in the afternoon of the 21st.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever talk to Andy Armstrong about this man?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I said something to Jack about him and I believe
Andy was there when I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what did you say to Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. That this guy called several times wanting to get a hold
of him, would never leave his name or address or number or anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did Jack say to you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Jack had told me previously not to give his number to
anyone unless I knew who it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is his home number?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, or some other number he left where he could be
reached at. He said not to worry about anybody that didn’t leave a
phone number, they didn’t want to get in touch with him very bad.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he indicate that he knew who this man was who was
calling?
Mr. CRAFARD. I took it for granted he knew who the man was. He never
said definitely that he did know who the man was. I think when I told
him about it he just said forget it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You never met this man, did you?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; if I had met the man I would have known his voice.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many home telephone numbers did Jack have?
Mr. CRAFARD. He only had one home number that I knew of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack have an assistant manager by the name of
Alexander?
Mr. CRAFARD. That would have been Andrew.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I think we can finish a good part of this today if we
could take a break. I want to hand you a copy of your interview with
the FBI and ask you to take time to read that over. It is rather
lengthy. It covers eight pages. Make some notes. Let me put this on
the record. Let me ask you to take your time and read this, and we
will take a recess for as long a period as you feel necessary. Make
notes as you go along of any changes that you think ought to be made,
either because you didn’t tell that to the FBI or because you now upon
reflection think that it is inaccurate, or because after reading this
and reflecting on your other testimony you would adopt this rather that
what you have said before. Let’s figure this will take at least 15
minutes and maybe longer.