Mr. CRAFARD. Until after I went to work for him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. CRAFARD. There was another one. The Penway notebook was about 6
inches long, and about 4½ inches wide.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, let us look at these names in here.
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recognize any.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You don’t recognize a single name? Did you know Cecil
Hamlin?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know what the Century Distributors, Inc., are?
Mr. CRAFARD. Century Distributors, Inc.?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; what are they?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever know Jack to be interested in any
prizefighters?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not that I knew of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear of a Willie Love?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember that name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear Jack talk of Lewis McWillie?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. L. J. McWillie?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever meet a fellow named Lawrence Meyers?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever meet any of Jack’s friends from Chicago?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember when you were at the State fair ever
meeting any other people with Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember when the first time was that you met Joyce
McDonald?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was at the fairgrounds. She came out with Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you meet her out there; did you meet any men out there
with her?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t—it seems like there was a couple of men with them,
but I was never introduced to them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I will state for the record that this notebook which we
have consists of 20 pages and those 20 pages include the cover which
is marked “Addresses,” and that is page No. 1, and the remainder of the
pages are numbered consecutively through 20. I might also indicate that
on each page of this exhibit, with the exception of page 1 and page 20,
two pages are photographed open, so that would make a total of almost
40 pages of actual written addresses. I hand you, Larry, what has been
marked as “Exhibit 5205, Washington, D.C., C. L. Crafard, April 9,
1964,” and I have put my signature on there. This is a photograph of
a group of people, and there is an arrow pointing toward one of the
people. First of all, can you tell us if you recognize the place in
which that photograph was taken?
Mr. CRAFARD. It appears to be the Carousel Club.
(The document referred to was marked Crafard Exhibit No. 5205 for
identification.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there anything about it that looks like the Carousel?
Mr. CRAFARD. You can just see the portion of the runway across here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is in the lower left-hand corner?
Mr. CRAFARD. Lower left-hand corner of the picture, and the Carousel
was the only club in Dallas to have runways, to seat the customers on
runways. These gentlemen are sitting right on the runway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you see anybody in that picture that you recognize?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t. I see one of the waitresses back in the
background. I can’t make out which one it is on the upper right-hand
portion, standing holding a tray, but I can’t make out who it is though.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There is an arrow directed toward one of the individuals
in that picture. Do you ever recall seeing that individual in the club
before?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t. I don’t recall seeing him at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that picture of yourself?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; definitely not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why do you say definitely not?
Mr. CRAFARD. One thing, the clothing. He is wearing a checkered shirt.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. CRAFARD. Any time I was in the club I wore a suit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You always wore a suit?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. I sometimes took my dress jacket off and put on a
gold livery jacket on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you ever dressed in a sweater of any sort there?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you wear a tie while you were in the club?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. This gentleman is wearing what would appear to be a
sport shirt, and I would say he is an older gentleman than I am.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to hand you what I have marked for purposes of
identification as “Washington, D.C., C. L. Crafard. April 9, 1964,
Exhibit 5206,” and I have signed my name to it. Do you recognize the
place where that photograph was taken?
Mr. CRAFARD. Mostly on the stage of the Carousel Club looking down the
center runway.
(The document referred to was marked Crafard Exhibit No. 5206 for
identification.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you see anybody in that picture that you know?
Mr. CRAFARD. Excuse me; that is looking down the side runway on the
left side.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recognize anybody in that picture?
Mr. CRAFARD. The young lady on the stage with her back to us, I
believe, is the stripper known as Tammi True.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Blond hair?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is—how about the man who appears to be dressed in a
tuxedo and standing on the stage; do you recognize him?
Mr. CRAFARD. He looks like the comedian known, that I can only remember
the name as, Johnny. He worked with a couple of puppets.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recognize the man in the checked shirt?
Mr. CRAFARD. Only from the fact that it was his picture in the—his
photo in the previous picture that was designated with an arrow.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that an accurate, true and accurate, picture of what
the inside of the Carousel looked like at the time that you worked
there?
Mr. CRAFARD. From that angle; yes. If you like, I can explain what they
was doing when this picture was taken.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you tell us what that depicts?
Mr. CRAFARD. It depicts the, what they call, raffling, you might say;
they give tickets out at the door, and then they spin a roulette wheel,
and the man with the numbers on the ticket that correspond with the
ticket on the roulette wheel wins the prizes. That is what they were
doing at that time; giving away prizes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do they give away prizes every night?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; weekends mostly.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about during the week?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not too often. Sometimes they did. It depends on the size
of the crowd.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did Jack get his prizes?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he give away twist boards?
Mr. CRAFARD. He gave away twist boards, Rusty Warren records, two
bottles of champagne, Wilkinson sword-edged blades, and stuffed animals.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he give away all of those items every night they had a
raffle or different nights?
Mr. CRAFARD. He would give whoever won their choice. They would have,
give away, three prizes each night, and everyone would have their
choices out of the prizes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to hand you what I have marked as “C. L.
Crafard, April 1964, 5207,” and I have signed my name to it. That is a
photograph. Can you tell me where that picture was taken?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was taken in Mr. Ruby’s office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is the arrangement of chair and desk and what appears to
be a couch in the foreground the arrangement that existed at the time
that you worked there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. This couch here is part of a sectional that was
turned crosswise of the office, the other portion being against the
wall on the left-hand side of the picture, which is where you cannot
see it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are the people in this photograph looking in the direction
of the TV camera, I mean of the TV set?
Mr. CRAFARD. I would say the woman as I am looking at the left of the
picture, Joy Dale, is looking more in the direction than the rest of
them, the TV set in the corner over this way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There is a TV set as you look from Jack Ruby’s position in
the photograph. It would be off at the far wall in the left-hand corner?
Mr. CRAFARD. To the left of him; yes, it would be to his left.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there a door shown behind Jack Ruby there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; that is the door connecting his office to what was my
room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So, in order to get into your room, you had to walk
through Jack’s office?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. I had a door off in the hall to my room, but this was
a connecting door from his office to my room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where is the door that enters Jack’s office?
Mr. CRAFARD. It would be almost immediately behind the girl on the
right-hand side, who is Little Lynn.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that door sort of opened up through the middle of the
wall or at one end of the wall?
Mr. CRAFARD. More or less to the end of the wall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let’s mark on there, then, Little Lynn on the side that
she is on, and Jack Ruby in the middle; I am marking this on the back.
And Joy Dale. Now, the background of this picture, there appear to be
tacked up on the door a number of papers. Was that customary?
Mr. CRAFARD. He had a lot of different papers tacked, fastened to the
door there, hanging on it. He had a couple of pegs in the door he put
them on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of papers did he keep up there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Mostly old bills and stuff like that that he just stuck up
on kind of a wire peg that he put them on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me show you what I have marked as Washington, D.C.,
C. L. Crafard, April 9, 1964, Exhibit 5208, and I have signed it. Was
that photograph taken at the Carousel Club?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. Do you want me to describe it?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; would you?
Mr. CRAFARD. It shows Jack Ruby standing on the stage holding the mike
talking to the audience, and they are clapping him; applauding him, I
should say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember when that photograph was taken?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember the date, but this photograph would have
been taken at the same time we had a photographer from a magazine
taking pictures. It would have been taken by him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How often did Jack M.C.; appear on stage?
Mr. CRAFARD. One or two nights. I believe one evening, one or two
evenings we was without an M.C. and Jack done the M.C.-ing. It was a
couple of evenings.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When there was ordinarily an M.C. there, do you ever
recall Jack going up on stage?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. It wasn’t his custom.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Looking at that picture, do you recognize anybody else in
the photograph?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you want to look at what I have marked in the same
fashion Exhibit 5209, and tell me if you recognize anybody in there?
First of all, let me rephrase the question. Do you recognize where that
was taken?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t. It wasn’t taken in the Carousel Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you recognize anybody in the picture?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. I would say this picture was taken in a place where
the theme was more or less western theme than anything else. I remember
I commented to the other gentleman when he showed me a picture, we were
looking at the costume she had on, wasn’t anything I remembered.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to hand you what I have marked in the same fashion
Exhibit 5210. Do you recognize where that photograph was taken?
Mr. CRAFARD. This photograph was taken in the Carousel Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recognize who any people in those photographs are?
Mr. CRAFARD. A stripper. I don’t remember her name right now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. On the left-hand side, is that the same girl?
Mr. CRAFARD. The same girl in another one of the photographs. It looks
like Tammi True.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There are dogs in that—dachshund dogs in that photograph?
Mr. CRAFARD. These dogs belong to Jack Ruby. We placed them on the
stage as more or less the photographer was here, as more or less a
photography stunt more than anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were they regularly used in acts?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; only on this one occasion they were used more or less
like, say, for a photographic stunt.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you ever been up on the stage while the lights were
on, while an act was in progress?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not while an act was in progress. Usually, during the
roulette wheel, I would put the prizes out and I’d take them off when
it was over.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would the stage be lighted in the same way for the drawing
of prizes as it would be when an M.C. was on stage?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would only the stage be lit or would the patrons, the
customer area, also be?
Mr. CRAFARD. Just the stage.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever have occasion to look out into the audience
from the stage when the roulette wheel, when the drawing, was in
progress?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you see faces in the audience?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was pretty hard to make out any faces unless they were
sitting right next, and then you wouldn’t recognize them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Unless they were sitting right next to the runway of the
stage?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.