Mr. GRIFFIN. You don’t think the HA number is a Chicago number?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir; I believe that is either a Dallas or a Fort Worth
number after I think about it a little bit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You are clear that there were two different telephones at
the Carousel Club. One was a pay phone and the other was a business
phone?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is it possible that the Riverside number was the business
phone number?
Mr. CRAFARD. It could have been; yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There is an entry, there is rather a line with nothing
written on it after the entry Earl Products Co., and then there is a
name and address and some numbers written; what is that?
Mr. CRAFARD. Bill DeMar, Wichita, Kans. The telephone number JA 4-4241.
The telephone number JA 8-6116. Bill DeMar was a comedian that Ruby
had hired to come down to the club, and these are the numbers where
he could be reached. I believe one was a motel number and one was a
business number or something of that sort. I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The entries in connection with Earl Products Co. and Bill
DeMar are all written in pencil.
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And I want to ask you if these would have followed in
sequence or whether you were making these entries in there because they
were entries which were to be kept or sort of on a permanent basis?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe they follow sequence, I don’t believe the
number of Bill DeMar, numbers would be anything we would keep on a
permanent basis as far as I can recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you also don’t think that Bill DeMar called shortly
after or that number was given to you shortly after the Earl Products
number was given to you so that the two of them were made at roughly
the same time?
Mr. CRAFARD. I am not positive of that, sir. They could have been.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you about Bill DeMar. Did Jack have any
business with Bill DeMar other than to hire him as an entertainer?
Mr. CRAFARD. As far as I know, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. After the entries in connection with Bill DeMar, there is
a line on which nothing is written, and then there is an entry Little
Lynn OP 34, and then 817—JE 4-8525. Do you remember making that entry?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember approximately when that entry was made?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir; I couldn’t say for dates. It was made about I
believe 2 or 3 days before Jack hired Little Lynn.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how did that call happen to come in?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember how it come about, but he give me the
number so he could have it to call Little Lynn.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Jack gave you that number or did you answer the telephone
and get that number from a long distance operator?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe Jack gave me the number. I am not positive.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, after that there are some entries. Some figures
written on the next two lines. Can you tell us what those numbers are?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir; I don’t know what they mean. There is the number
875, and number 1750. It seems like a hyphen behind the numbers with a
dash, and a three behind that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You haven’t any recollection what that might relate to?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That concludes the reverse side of page 2.
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to turn over to page 3. What is the name
written at the top?
Mr. CRAFARD. The top line is “See Paul Lubeachick.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. How does he spell that?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe that is L-u-b-e-a-c-h-i-c-k, I believe. On the
next line is “Here at 9:30.” That would be that Paul Lubeachick was
going to be at the club at 9:30 and wouldn’t be able to be there too
long and he wanted to see Jack and I was to tell Jack when he called on
the phone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The next entry is also an entry for Bill DeMar.
Mr. CRAFARD. It is Bill DeMar, Evansville, 824 West Idewild Drive, HA
3-7245, and I believe that was Bill DeMar’s home address; I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now there is an entry in pen which follows that. What is
that entry?
Mr. CRAFARD. Ruth Shay, Inwood Road, FL 2-5494.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who is Ruth Shay?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe she was a girl called in connection with the ad
that Jack ran in the paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was she ever hired?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now there is a line and the name Mickey Ryan with a
telephone number.
Mr. CRAFARD. Mickey Ryan, DA 4-4378.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that a number that was put in there for permanent
reference.
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe that was his home number.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How often did you see Mickey Ryan?
Mr. CRAFARD. I have saw Mickey Ryan probably about eight or nine times
while I was working for Jack. Excuse me please.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Sure.
Mr. CRAFARD. It seems to me that number should have been on the first
couple of pages that wrote down, but it seems like I transferred the
number to the front of the book after I wrote the number down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The Mickey Ryan number?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mickey Ryan’s name and number are something that Jack
would keep on a permanent basis?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Mickey come at any particular time of the day or night?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir; he’d come in sometimes in the afternoon for a
little while and then maybe he would be in in the evening.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And would he visit with other people in the club besides
Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. Sometimes Jack wouldn’t even be at the club. He’d come in
and talk to Andrew and I, and just visit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. These eight or nine times that you saw him, were they
spread out over the entire period that you worked there or was it just
in one particular brief period that he came in?
Mr. CRAFARD. Over the entire period of time I was working for Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall the first time that you met Mickey Ryan?
Mr. CRAFARD. I’m not clear. No, sir; I don’t recall exactly when I met
him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Tell us about the first time that you do recall meeting
Mickey Ryan and what happened.
Mr. CRAFARD. The first time I really remember talking to Mickey at the
club I believe he came in one afternoon and I was in the club. There
was a letter that had come for Mickey Ryan to the club and I gave that
to him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did anybody else receive mail at the club besides Mickey
Ryan?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was two or three people that had worked at the club
previously that had mail sent to the club after they left.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Mickey have anything to do with the sale of twist
boards?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was Mickey’s relationship with Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. As far as I know they were just friends.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any view about Mickey as to whether he was a
homosexual?
Mr. CRAFARD. Mickey seemed to be pretty decent guy. As far as I could
figure there was nothing of that sort there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever learn how Mickey met Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I didn’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Mickey have any kind of business dealings with Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I know of, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You mentioned that Jack had a bookkeeper.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what his name was?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But that wasn’t Mickey Ryan?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that a friend of Mickey Ryan’s?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know, sir. It might have been.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Hubert, do you have any questions.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what Mickey Ryan’s occupation was?
Mr. CRAFARD. As far as I knew, sir, he was a bartender.
Mr. HUBERT. Where?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was a club called there a couple of days, a couple of
different times asking for Mickey. I believe it was at the Gun Club
where he went to work. When I first met him he was unemployed and then
he went to work afterwards.
Mr. HUBERT. It was your impression that he went to work as a bartender
at the Gun Club.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You formed that impression from what he told you?
Mr. CRAFARD. When they called they called asking for him and they said
they wanted him in reference to a job, and he said he was trying to get
a job as a bartender.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember his having told you that he had gotten the
job?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir; that is the reason I formed the impression that
he had been a bartender.
Mr. HUBERT. He told you so.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.