Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And would be gone all day until sometime in the late
evening?
Mr. CRAFARD. Usually; sometimes he would come back in the middle of
the afternoon for a little while, or maybe he wouldn’t come back until
after the club opened at 7:30.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did Jack actually have to do to manage the Carousel?
Mr. CRAFARD. That I couldn’t really say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did it appear he had very much to do?
Mr. CRAFARD. As far as the management of the club, to my knowledge, it
shouldn’t have took him more than 3 hours a day at the most, that is,
including all the bookwork he would have to do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he do the bookwork?
Mr. CRAFARD. He kept a set of books, but he had a bookkeeper to keep
his books, an accountant.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean--you mean he personally kept the books or somebody
else made the entries?
Mr. CRAFARD. Andrew made most of the entries.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, during the 6 weeks or 2 months that you were there,
how many different strippers did he have?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was mostly the same girls. He fired one and hired
another one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was the one that he fired?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was Jada.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And who did he hire in her place?
Mr. CRAFARD. Little Lynn.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long after he fired Jada did Little Lynn come on?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was 2 or 3 days between them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Could there have been more than that?
Mr. CRAFARD. It might have been a week, I don’t believe so--I don’t
believe it was much more than that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you present during the incident that resulted in the
firing of Jada?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe there were several different incidents that
built up to that event.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What were they, as you recall?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know most of them, but the one instance I believe,
Jack shut the lights out on her as she went too far with her disrobing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then did they have a fight of some sort afterwards?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe there was; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you present?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I was in the club, but I don’t know--I didn’t
know what went on even.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long had you known Little Lynn before she was hired as
a stripper?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I met her one day and she was hired the next
evening, something like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had Jack known her before?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about her husband, Bruce Carlin, did you meet him?
Mr. CRAFARD. I met him at the same time I met Little Lynn.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How often did Bruce use to come to the club?
Mr. CRAFARD. When Little Lynn went to work for the club at first he was
there almost every night--he was there every night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did he get along with Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. I never seen any difficulty between them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How would you describe Bruce Carlin?
Mr. CRAFARD. He seemed like a pretty likable young fellow to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with him?
Mr. CRAFARD. Slightly; not very much.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time would he generally come and what time would he
leave?
Mr. CRAFARD. He would usually, when he come in, he would be there when
Little Lynn was on the stage, and he would leave, and she would go back
in time for her to come back on the stage, and he would come back in
again.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he and Little Lynn go out some place together?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe they went out a couple of times between her
acts. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Little Lynn remain around the club while Bruce was out?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; most of the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long would you say Little Lynn worked for Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. Oh, man; I believe it was 2 or 3 weeks. I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So he had the same group of strippers except that Little
Lynn replaced Jada?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He had three different M.C.’s?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And Billy DeMar was one of them?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the M.C. is the same person as the comedian?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the band? Did he have the same band all the way
through?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So you would say that while you were there there wasn’t
any other turnover in personnel?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That you knew of.
I think you mentioned on two nights you ran the Vegas Club all by
yourself.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When were those two nights?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember the dates. It was during the week, week
nights. The one night I was the only one at the club, I didn’t even
have a band, all we had was the jukebox.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the bartender?
Mr. CRAFARD. I was doing the bartending.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And taking the tickets also?
Mr. CRAFARD. We didn’t have any cover charge that night, just a jukebox
and beer. The next night we had the band, and I had a waitress.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long was that before the assassination of the
President?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe that was the week before, but I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the reason that Jack didn’t have anybody to run
the Vegas Club?
Mr. CRAFARD. The club wasn’t making any money. During the week it
didn’t make hardly any money, and that was the slowest night of the
week for the club, and his sister was sick one night, so he had me go
over and run the Vegas Club the first night, and the next night his
sister was sick again, and I only had the band and a waitress with me
at night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was his sister in the hospital or anything while you were
employed there?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe she was. She was in the hospital--I think she
was in the hospital, but when, I’m not sure. I’m not sure whether she
was or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see her after the two nights you worked in the
Vegas Club?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think I saw her over at the Vegas Club two or three
nights later, but I’m not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you meet Pauline Hall?
Mr. CRAFARD. Who?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you meet a woman named Pauline Hall?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many times did you see her, would you say?
Mr. CRAFARD. All together I believe I saw her about four different
times.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you describe her physically?
Mr. CRAFARD. Fairly nice looking woman, I would say maybe in her
mid-thirties--a little older, but a nice build, and what I saw of her,
and when I talked to her, she had a fairly nice personality.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there any woman at the Vegas Club who was employed
there who was noticeably heavy, who was fat?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall of seeing one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the Carousel, did he have anybody employed, any
woman employed at the Carousel Club who was noticeably fat?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was a colored woman by the name of Alice who more or
less took care of the coffee and the pizzas, was real heavy.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you saw--do you know if Eva Grant worked at the Vegas
any nights after the two nights that you worked there?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know anything about the man who runs the Colony
Club, Abe Weinstein?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I--I don’t. I believe I met the man on one
occasion.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you meet him?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I met him at the Carousel Club. He was the one
who got--Jack hired Little Lynn through him. I believe it was that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were Jack and Abe Weinstein friendly?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I wouldn’t say so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did Jack happen to hire Little Lynn through Abe?
Mr. CRAFARD. He needed a girl, and Abe had one that he didn’t need,
and he knew Jack needed girls through the union setup, so he told Jack
about her, brought her over and introduced her.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had Little Lynn been a stripper at Abe Weinstein’s place?
Mr. CRAFARD. I understand she was an amateur.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever talk with Jack about the amateur nights that
Weinstein had?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was some--I wouldn’t say actually I discussed it
with him. I should say he told me about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did Jack tell you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, the fact that he--the unions had sent out an order
for the clubs to stop the so-called amateur night, and Ruby had done
so, but the other clubs in town hadn’t, and they had failed to comply
with the union order, and nothing had happened about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did Jack talk with you about that?
Mr. CRAFARD. When I showed up and went to work for him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And, to your knowledge, did Jack do--what was Jack doing
about it?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was doing his best to get the union to force them to
stop. He had stopped.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was he doing that you know of?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was writing to some of the bigger, some of the higher
officials in the union, and friends of his that he knew that had
position or something.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you you ever make any telephone calls for him or write
any letters or mail any letters in connection with that?
Mr. CRAFARD. I might have mailed some letters, I don’t recall it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about telephone calls?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever drive Jack’s car?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. At the time I was working for Ruby all I had, the only
license I had, was a restricted motorcycle operator’s license.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Other than that at that time that you--you had driven with
Jack, hadn’t you, in his car, a number of times?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did Jack keep a lot of things in his car?
Mr. CRAFARD. His trunk was always full of stuff.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It was? How about the inside of the car?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not so much in the back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What sort of things did he keep in the trunk?
Mr. CRAFARD. Pictures of girls, these twist boards he was pushing, and
cards for advertisements, and cards with the picture----
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to see these things? These things in
the trunk of the car.
Mr. CRAFARD. I straightened the trunk of his car up several times at
his request.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he keep any keys in the car?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe he had some in a box in the back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of keys were they?
Mr. CRAFARD. From what I could tell more or less house keys, keys for
doors.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were they loose or in a key chain?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe there was a bunch of them on a keyring.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You say he kept them in a box of some sort?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of a box did he keep them in?
Mr. CRAFARD. Just a cardboard box he had in the back of his car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he keep anything else in that cardboard box?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was vitamin pills he was taking, and some of his
diet stuff he kept in that box. He always had a bunch of soap in the
car, bar soap.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he travel out of town or something that would cause
him to need that stuff?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why would he have kept those things in the trunk of the
car?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he keep clothes in the car?
Mr. CRAFARD. He sometimes would have clothes in the car. Maybe he would
put clothes in the car that he would take to the cleaner and they would
be in there 2 or 3 days before he would take them in the cleaners.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where would they be in the trunk?
Mr. CRAFARD. Right in the trunk of the car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about in the glove compartment of the car, did you
ever have any occasion to go into the glove compartment?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he keep the trunk of his car locked?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the times that you went into the trunk of the car, how
did you get into the trunk?
Mr. CRAFARD. With the key.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where would you get the key?
Mr. CRAFARD. He would give it to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he keep this key loose in his pocket or did he have it
on a key chain?
Mr. CRAFARD. He had it on a key chain.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What else did he keep on that key chain?
Mr. CRAFARD. The keys for the car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Anything else?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe he had his apartment house key and the key to
both clubs.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this actually a chain or a ring or what?
Mr. CRAFARD. A keyring.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To your knowledge did he keep--did he have any separate
set of car keys that he kept on a separate ring or on a holder of any
kind?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You say at one time you went down to his car and got a gun
out of the car?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did he keep the gun?
Mr. CRAFARD. He kept that locked in the trunk.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever see any political literature of any sort in
Jack’s car or in the apartment or in the Carousel Club or any place
else?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I can recall seeing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever see any radio scripts of any sort that Jack
had?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have access to his office?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did he maintain his desk?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was pretty much of a mess most of the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this a desk that had drawers in it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how about the drawers, did he keep things in the
drawers?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, they was always full of stuff.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever have occasion to go through any of these
drawers?
Mr. CRAFARD. I went through, completely through the desk on different
occasions.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall seeing any kinds of political literature of
any sort in there, and by political I don’t mean just partisan, but,
oh, anything that might have to do with any kind of issue or political
philosophy?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall it, of seeing any.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever recall seeing anything from an organization
called Lifeline or that was a piece of literature that was put out by
an organization called Lifeline, or denominated Lifeline?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe there was a Lifeline book or magazine around
once or twice. I never paid no attention to it; saw the book and that
was all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear Jack talk about any public events?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. About all we would discuss would be the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What sort of person was Ruby as far as a person who talked
about what he was doing?
Mr. CRAFARD. He didn’t talk too much about things, things he was doing,
other than the club itself. He talked about what had to be done about
the club, but other than that he didn’t talk too much.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He didn’t tell you what he was doing outside the club?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So as I understand it, atypical for Ruby, he appeared at
the club before noon, wouldn’t come back until late evening, he would
spend 8 or 10 or what would presumably be waking hours away from the
club each day.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever talk about what he was doing during that
period of time?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear anything, or do you have any idea of
what he was doing during that period of time?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever attempt to talk to him about what he was
doing?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About that time? Did you ever hear anybody else try to
talk to him about it?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know Jack, or see Jack, or talk with him often
enough so that you were able to form an opinion as to what Jack thought
of his own sexual abilities?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I would have no opinion on that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever talk to you about other than the incidents
that you mentioned earlier about his sexual conquests of his girl
friends or something like that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Griffin, how about his efforts to keep in shape
physically, keep himself physically fit, and what not?
Mr. CRAFARD. I never saw any talk toward that effect. The only thing I
knew for sure was he was dieting and trying to lose weight.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is because he told you?
Mr. CRAFARD. I saw him take these diet pills.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have some sort of a schedule that he would take
this on?
Mr. CRAFARD. He took it every morning.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About what time did he take them?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, the way I understood, about the first thing he got
up he would take this.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would he take it at the club or at home?
Mr. CRAFARD. At home; or sometimes at the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see him take it?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was trying to take it--I guess he figured about
noontime he would take his medicine, this diet stuff, instead of eating.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did this come in?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was in powder form, you use it in tea or coffee. It
prevents you from getting hungry.
Mr. GRIFFIN. On the 22d when Jack came back after the President had
been shot, the first time, did he make any telephone calls to any of
his employees, to anybody, to people, to tell them not to come in?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; he had Andrew make calls.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Andy make all the calls?
Mr. CRAFARD. So far as I know; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack--how about the newspapers, was anything done
about notifying the newspapers that the club was not going to be open?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know as it was Jack who done it--there was--he
done so outside the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did anybody come to the club during the afternoon of the
22d?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember of anybody coming to the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did any of the strippers show up that day?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember, I don’t recall any coming down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did Andy stay at the club?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was there until about 15 or 20 minutes after Jack left.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The first time or the second?
Mr. CRAFARD. The first time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Which means that he would have left sometime before 4
o’clock?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you and Senator and Jack went out to take the picture
of the Earl Warren sign, do you recall anything being in the car at
that time?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have any newspapers in the car?
Mr. CRAFARD. I couldn’t remember any.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you sit, in the front or back?
Mr. CRAFARD. I sat in the back seat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack know how to use the Polaroid camera?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It doesn’t take anything to run that Polaroid camera.