Mr. CRAFARD. That was after he left the second time.
Mr. HUBERT. No; you misunderstood my question. Did he ask you to make
that sign before or after he asked you to go to Eva’s with him?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe, that was afterwards, after the first stay there
at the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he give you any instructions as to what to do?
Mr. CRAFARD. Make up a sign that we’d be closed. He had a closed
sign. He said, “Take it down there and put it downstairs about 7:30
or quarter to eight”, and he said, “Wait until the other clubs open.
Let them”--he said, I think it was, “Let them damn guys stay open”, or
something to that effect, quite similar to the wording there, I’m not
sure what the wording was, that wording was.
Mr. HUBERT. He got over to you, though, that he was going to close,
that he wanted you to prepare and put up a sign, but to do it in such a
way that his competitors wouldn’t know he was anticipating that?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he tell you so in so many words?
Mr. CRAFARD. He said, wait until they opened before I put it up. He
said something like “Let those damn fools open if they want”, or
something to that effect, or “Stay open”, or something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he give you any other instructions?
Mr. CRAFARD. That was about it. He asked me where I was going to eat
and I told him and he said something about he’d call me in about an
hour. He said to go ahead and eat then and he said “I’ll call you in
about an hour.”
So he called me--I don’t even remember what he said then. It was just
I guess he asked me if there had been any phone calls or something. It
wasn’t much. The conversation wasn’t but about a dozen words at most.
Mr. HUBERT. Had there been any phone calls?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not while I was at the club. I waited until about 30
minutes after he left and then I went to eat.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you eat?
Mr. CRAFARD. To the drugstore, Walgreen Drugstore.
Mr. HUBERT. You ate alone?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You came back to the club?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; that’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. What time was it when you got back?
Mr. CRAFARD. It must have been about 6:20 or 6:30, something like that,
I guess--a little later.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you next hear from Ruby or see him?
Mr. CRAFARD. I never saw him again until the next morning. He called me
from Eva’s, talked with me for a few minutes, about an hour after he
left. I just got back from eating.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you know he was at Eva’s?
Mr. CRAFARD. He said he was at Eva’s, and then I could hear her voice.
They was watching on television.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the subject of that conversation?
Mr. CRAFARD. So far as I can recall, he just asked me if there had been
any calls, as far as I can recall.
Mr. HUBERT. And you simply told him no?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ask you about the sign?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I told him I had it ready and he made sure, he told
me again what time--not to put it up until after about 7:30 or a
quarter to eight.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did that conversation last?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was just a very few minutes. It couldn’t have been more
than two dozen words spoken at the most.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he give you any indication as to what his plans were?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say anything about going to church?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I can recall. I think he said something about I
could reach him at Eva’s if I needed him for anything, I think he said.
Mr. HUBERT. And this you think was between 6:15 and 6:30, or long in
there?
Mr. CRAFARD. I prefer to say between 6:30 and 7.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you do with the rest of the day?
Mr. CRAFARD. I stayed at the club and watched it on television.
Mr. HUBERT. You were alone?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Nobody else came at all?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. The door was locked downstairs, nobody could get up.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you put up the sign?
Mr. CRAFARD. I waited until about a quarter to eight before I put up
the sign.
Mr. HUBERT. Were the other clubs open?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe they were closed too. I am not sure. I am not
positive about that.
Mr. HUBERT. Any phone calls come at all the rest of the evening?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I recall.
Mr. HUBERT. You were there alone that night?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You just watched television until you went to bed?
Mr. CRAFARD. I watched television for quite a while. I watched
television most of the afternoon. It seemed like the more I watched
it, the worse it made me feel, in a way, so I just quit watching it. I
had a couple of books there and I read most of the afternoon and the
evening.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did you go to bed?
Mr. CRAFARD. I must have went to bed probably about 9 or 9:30,
something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. And there were no phone calls?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I can recall. I believe there was--about midnight
I believe it was, there was a call. I don’t even know why this girl
called. I don’t even know why she called. I talked to her for a few
minutes and then I took the phone out of the office. It had a big long
cord on it and I carried it in by my bed. I stretched out on the bed
and we talked for quite a long time.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was the girl?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t even remember her name. I had never met her before
or ever heard from her again.
Mr. HUBERT. Who did she say she was?
Mr. CRAFARD. She give me her name. I don’t remember what her name was.
Mr. HUBERT. What did she say her business was, why did she call?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think she said something about wanting a job with the
club or something.
Mr. HUBERT. It was not a girl that worked at the club in any way?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; she was not connected with the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you think she did identify herself?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I know she identified herself.
Mr. HUBERT. But you don’t remember who she was?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You had never seen her before?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. I had never met the girl.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t recognize the name?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you recognize the voice?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. As far as you could say then this was a complete stranger
to you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you speak to her?
Mr. CRAFARD. Oh, we must have talked altogether for about an hour,
an hour and a half, and then hung up, and about 15 or 20 minutes she
called back and talked for a couple of hours.
Mr. HUBERT. Now you talked to this girl for a total of about 3 hours
that night?
Mr. CRAFARD. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. What was it all about?
Mr. CRAFARD. Just more or less talking, getting acquainted. More than
anything over the phone, the best I could.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she indicate where she was?
Mr. CRAFARD. She was baby sitting for a friend of hers. She give me to
understand she was to catch a bus out of town the next morning, about
5:30.
Mr. HUBERT. In the course of the conversation did you try to find out
why she had called the Carousel?
Mr. CRAFARD. She called, she said, to start with, when we first started
talking, she had called to find out about a job in the club. I don’t
know why she done it that way--that is what she said, as far as I can
recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Was she aware that the President was dead?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes: I believe we discussed that a little bit too. T don’t
recall what was said.
Mr. HUBERT. The first time you spoke to her, you said it was about
midnight--right?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You had been asleep?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I had just started dozing off when the phone
rang.
Mr. HUBERT. And you spoke to her then about an hour?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I believe--I’m not sure--I think Little Lynn called.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did she call?
Mr. CRAFARD. Just the one time that I can recall.
Mr. HUBERT. What time?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe that was about 9:30 or 10 o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. What did she say?
Mr. CRAFARD. After I laid down.
Mr. HUBERT. What did she want?
Mr. CRAFARD. She wanted to talk to Jack.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she tell you what about?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; she just said it was urgent. I believe I told her Jack
was at Eva’s and give her Eva’s number.
Mr. HUBERT. Where was she?
Mr. CRAFARD. She was at her home in Fort Worth, as I understood.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that a long-distance call?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Any other workers, waitresses or girls come in that night?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, none. Jack had had Andy call all of them to tell them
not to come in.
Mr. HUBERT. Now when you ended the conversation with this girl that
began about midnight, was there an arrangement for one or the other of
you to call up again in a few minutes?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I told her I’d like to talk to her again. I told her
I’d like to meet her. I told her I’d like to get acquainted with her. I
tried to get her to talk a little longer. She said she had to hang up.
And then she called me back 15 or 20 minutes later.
Mr. HUBERT. And then you continued to talk for a couple of hours?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How did that end up?
Mr. CRAFARD. Some one of the younger kids there woke up or something.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you made any arrangement to meet her, to see her?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; no definite arrangements. I tried to get her to tell
me what bus station she was leaving out of. She wouldn’t even tell me
what bus station she was leaving out of. I told her I’d meet her before
she caught the bus, but she wouldn’t tell me where she was leaving.
Mr. HUBERT. This conversation in fact, Larry, was kind of a love making
on the phone deal, wasn’t it?
Mr. CRAFARD. More or less what you might say an attempt.
Mr. HUBERT. And part of that attempt of course would be trying to find
out who she was and where you could meet her, wouldn’t it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Who she was and where I could meet her at her likes and
her dislikes, such as that.
Mr. HUBERT. She wouldn’t tell you any of that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, she wouldn’t tell me where I could meet her at or
anything, but other than we really talked as if we known each other for
months, actually.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn’t write down her name, Larry?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think I wrote her name down, but I never could get her
phone number.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you write it down?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I wrote it down in that notebook I had. I’m not
sure. I don’t have her name now. I never had her name after I left
Texas, I know that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you recognize that name in the notebook?
Mr. CRAFARD. I’m not even sure of that.
Mr. HUBERT. We will have an opportunity.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she sound like a young girl? How old a person was she?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe she said she was 19, 18 or 19 years old.
Mr. HUBERT. She told you, didn’t she, that she had to be at the bus
station at 5 o’clock?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was 5, 5:30 or 6 o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. There is only one bus station there, isn’t there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Two bus stations, Trailways and Greyhound.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you find out which one?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. She wouldn’t tell you that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she tell you what time the bus was going to leave?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think she said something about she had to leave where
she was at 5:30 or 6 o’clock to catch the bus.
Mr. HUBERT. To catch the bus?
Mr. CRAFARD. To catch the bus.
Mr. HUBERT. To go where?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think she said she was going to Chicago.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you try to find out what buses from either station were
leaving around that time?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I didn’t call the bus depots or anything. I wasn’t
that interested in it.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you were interested enough in her to talk with her
for 3 hours. I wondered if you weren’t interested enough to find out if
you couldn’t meet her by going to one of the bus stations.
Mr. CRAFARD. She talked--she was leaving town and didn’t figure on
being back for quite a little while.
Mr. HUBERT. When did she tell you that?
Mr. CRAFARD. Shortly after we started--I believe just shortly before we
finished the conversation I started to find out where to meet her at.
Mr. HUBERT. Which was it? What killed your interest? Is that what you
are trying to tell us?
Mr. CRAFARD. I figured she was leaving town, there wasn’t no sense in
going to too much trouble to try and meet her if she was leaving town
and wasn’t figuring on being back.
First, she talked like she was going to be gone for the weekend, and
then just shortly before we finished the conversation, she give me
to understand that she would be gone on a prolonged, for a prolonged
period of time.
Mr. HUBERT. So this girl then, who was going for a long period of
time, you suggest was willing to talk with you for 3 hours and the
conversation, the general tenor of which was sort of love making on the
phone, as it were?
Mr. CRAFARD. As you would put it; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you find out or try to find out her phone number?
Mr. CRAFARD. I asked for her--I tried to get her phone number where
she was at. I tried to get her home phone number. I tried to get her
address. She wouldn’t.
Mr. HUBERT. She wouldn’t give you any of that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you give us any idea what subject you could possibly
have talked about for that length of time?
Mr. CRAFARD. Mostly we discussed our different hobbies, our likes and
dislikes. Like I say, the conversation was more as if we had known each
other for 2 or 3 weeks or better.
Mr. HUBERT. You must have made more than one effort to try to get her
phone number and her address.
Mr. CRAFARD. Several times I tried.
Mr. HUBERT. What reason did she ascribe for not giving it to you?
Mr. CRAFARD. She said she was at a neighbor’s place. She was
babysitting for some friends of hers.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; but you had asked her for her home address as well?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Her home phone?
Mr. CRAFARD. She just wouldn’t give me any reason for not giving me her
home phone number that I can recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s see, that means that she was a person who was going
out of town and did not want to talk to you any more, and didn’t want
to give you her number.
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Or where you could reach her?
Mr. CRAFARD. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. But she spoke to you for 3 hours?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Larry, when she called did she ask for anyone in
particular?
Mr. CRAFARD. She asked if it was the Carousel.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then what did she say?
Mr. CRAFARD. And I said yes, and I asked her if there was something I
could do for her. I believe she said she had called in answer to an ad
in the paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there an ad in the paper?
Mr. CRAFARD. Ruby continuously run an ad for girls. After I got to
talking to her--it’s kind of funny as all get-out--getting ready to
leave town the next morning and then calling in in response to this ad.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it you got the impression after talking with her
for a while that she really hadn’t called in response to that ad.
Mr. CRAFARD. I got the impression she was kind of a kook, in a way. I
have known of girls to do this, call up strange people and talk to them
as long as the person will talk to them.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you do that too?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I have never done that, not that way.
Mr. HUBERT. So it was not your normal way of doing?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was the middle of the night, Larry?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Why do you think you did that?
Mr. CRAFARD. Just talked to her, somebody to talk to. I wasn’t sleepy.
Somebody to talk to more than anything.
Mr. HUBERT. You see the point--that that would be a story that would be
much easier to accept if the time element was not present.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I understand.
Mr. HUBERT. You must admit it is rather extraordinary for two strangers
to speak as long as you did on two separate occasions when apparently
there was no particular purpose about it, and no particular future to
it.
Mr. CRAFARD. I can’t explain it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she indicate that she was somebody with the Carousel
operation, what it was like?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not that I can recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she say what she wanted to do there, what kind of a job
she wanted?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was a job for waitresses was what he run all the time.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she mention that is what she was applying for?
Mr. CRAFARD. She mentioned the fact that she was calling in connection
with the ad.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you must have asked her what she looked like.
Mr. CRAFARD. Oh, yes; I asked her for a general description of herself,
measurements and weight.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us what she said?
Mr. CRAFARD. As far as I can recall, she give me her general height and
weight, color of her eyes, her hair.
Mr. HUBERT. What was all that?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean you don’t remember whether she was a blonde or a
brunette?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe she said she had brown hair.
Mr. HUBERT. Then you do recall about that?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think that is what she said. I am not sure.
Mr. HUBERT. What about her height? What mental impression did you form
as to what sort of a person she must look like?
Mr. CRAFARD. From the description she give me, I figured she must be a
fairly nice looking girl.
Mr. HUBERT. I judged that you had that impression. Did she have a good
figure?
Mr. CRAFARD. If I recall right, she more than likely must have had.
That is about 90 percent of a girl’s looks anyway.
Mr. HUBERT. What is that?
Mr. CRAFARD. I figure that is about 90 percent of a girl’s looks,
physical looks, is her figure.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean you are attentive to that sort of thing?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; like any other man.
Mr. HUBERT. I am not critical. It brings me back to the point that you
said you didn’t remember what she looked like. I suggest perhaps that
you do. It is a little bit more than you are telling us.
Mr. CRAFARD. I figured that she must have been a pretty nice--had a
pretty decent figure from her description and everything, or I wouldn’t
have thought she was a fairly good looking girl if she hadn’t give a
pretty good description of her figure. But as far as the measurements,
I can’t remember the exact measurements or anything like that.
Mr. HUBERT. But she was a brunette and she had a good figure. Did she
say anything about her weight?
Mr. CRAFARD. She must have been fairly light. It seemed attractive to
me because I like a smaller female. It must have been about 100 or 105,
something like that. But I don’t remember the exact weight or anything.
Mr. HUBERT. But you do remember that the weight was attractive to you?
Mr. CRAFARD. It must have been light.
Mr. HUBERT. And therefore it was light. Are there any other preferences
of yours that would help us to determine that she told you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I can think of, other than a good figure and a
fairly decent height.
Mr. HUBERT. How did she describe her face?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t really remember how she described her face, it has
been so blasted long ago.
Mr. HUBERT. When the first part of this conversation ended, did she
tell you she was going to call you back?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe I said something to her about calling me back if
she got the chance, or something.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she say why she had to end the conversation, the first
conversation?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think she said something about the kids she was
babysitting with, or something.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean that she had to attend to them?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that she had to end the conversation?
Mr. CRAFARD. To tell you the truth what I thought, I kind of had the
idea all the way through it sounded to me like it was a bunch of older
guys and gals in the background giggling all the time. It seems to me
like it was a dare they had put her up to just to see how long a person
would talk to her, or something.
Mr. HUBERT. Then there were people?
Mr. CRAFARD. It sounded like.
Mr. HUBERT. Other than babies?
Mr. CRAFARD. She kept saying she was babysitting with these kids and
that was all that was there was these young kids.
Mr. HUBERT. But you heard adults in the background?
Mr. CRAFARD. It sounded to me like it was at least teenagers, kids at
least in their midteens, if not older, and I kind of had the idea that
they had probably put her up to a dare.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were willing to go along with that?
Mr. CRAFARD. Sure; why not? I would probably never see her.
Mr. HUBERT. And you haven’t?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not that I know of.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s put it this way: You may have met some girls since
then, but in any case those that you have met have not identified
themselves or become identified with that girl?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. That would take us until about 3 o’clock in the morning
wouldn’t it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Right about that; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you asleep?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think I dozed off about then, and by then this call came
from Jack.
Mr. HUBERT. What time was that?
Mr. CRAFARD. That must have been between 3:30 and 3:45, I guess.
Mr. HUBERT. How long after the call with the girl?
Mr. CRAFARD. It wasn’t but about--it couldn’t have been more than a
half hour.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Jack indicate that he had been trying to get you but
the line had been busy?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he want?
Mr. CRAFARD. He wanted me to get dressed to meet him downstairs with
the camera, Polaroid Land camera, with extra films and extra bulbs.
Mr. HUBERT. That is the camera you told us was previously used for
taking the pictures of customers?
Mr. CRAFARD. Taking the pictures of what?
Mr. HUBERT. Of customers.
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ask you whether you knew how to operate that camera?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think there had been some discussion about the camera on
a couple--on a previous occasion about it.
Mr. HUBERT. As a matter of fact, you had operated it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I had operated it at the club a couple of times.
Mr. HUBERT. He knew you had?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I think there was something said a couple of nights
before, something about it.
Mr. HUBERT. You had taken pictures of the customers, as you frequently
did, to give them as they danced with the girls? And he knew that you
had done that?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, see; yea, he knew that I had done it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ask you if you knew how to operate one?
Mr. CRAFARD. He asked me if I knew how to change the film, that is what
it was. I told him yes.
Mr. HUBERT. So what happened then?
Mr. CRAFARD. So I went ahead and got dressed. I had just got dressed
and got the film and bulbs and was starting to get the camera when
this guy from the garage called up and told me Jack was downstairs and
wanted me to hurry. So I went out downstairs and got in the car.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was the guy from the garage?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember what his name was.
Mr. HUBERT. A white man?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was a white boy.
Mr. HUBERT. White woman?
Mr. CRAFARD. White man.
Mr. HUBERT. White man. Did he telephone you or come up?
Mr. CRAFARD. He telephoned up. He couldn’t have come up. The door was
locked.
Mr. HUBERT. So Jack was there?
Mr. CRAFARD. Outside in the car when I went down, Jack and George
Senator.
Mr. HUBERT. How long was that after you had spoken to Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. It couldn’t have been more than a half hour at the most,
because I hadn’t much more than got dressed when he called from
upstairs.
Mr. HUBERT. As I understood it, about a half hour after you finished
talking to the girl you were just about dozing when Jack called?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And said he would be right down?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You got up and dressed?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. You fetched the camera?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. And the bulbs and the film?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you load the camera then?
Mr. CRAFARD. The camera was loaded.
Mr. HUBERT. It was already loaded?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he know that?
Mr. CRAFARD. He knew it was loaded but nobody had any idea exactly how
many--we didn’t know for sure how many pictures were left in it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you take some extra film?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. It was all there?
Mr. CRAFARD. A roll of extra film.
Mr. HUBERT. All of that wouldn’t take a half hour, would it?
Mr. CRAFARD. I washed up, I imagine, before I got dressed. I usually
did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he tell you where you were going?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not until after we went out there. We took off and I said,
“Where are we going?” He didn’t say anything. He went on out there.
Mr. HUBERT. When he called by telephone the first time did he tell you
where he was?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know for sure. I don’t remember whether he did or
not.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where he was?
Mr. CRAFARD. I took it for granted he was at the home as far as I
figured.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there anything that you now recall that would help you
remember as to whether he was calling from home or not?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not that I can recall.
Mr. HUBERT. So in fact you really don’t know where he was?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you think it was as much as a half hour after he called
that you got the call from the garageman to come down?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And he and Senator were in the car?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Senator was in front?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; Jack and Senator were both in front.
Mr. HUBERT. You got in the back?
Mr. CRAFARD. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. And you drove off?
Mr. CRAFARD. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. It is at that time I think you said you asked him what this
was all about?
Mr. CRAFARD. I think I said something about where are we going.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say?
Mr. CRAFARD. He said “I want you to take some pictures.”
Mr. HUBERT. And did you ask him where?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was driving then.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ask him of what?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall if I asked him about what or not. I think
him and Senator were talking.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember what they were talking about?
Mr. CRAFARD. Something about an ad, I think an ad, a sign or something
like that. When we got out there, it was “Impeach Earl Warren” sign at
the corner of the North Central Expressway.
Mr. HUBERT. And what?
Mr. CRAFARD. North Central and Hall, I believe it is.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you describe this intersection that you think that
you took this sign--
Mr. CRAFARD. It was just like most of the expressway intersections are.
Around--come around under this bridge under an overcrossing and a road
into the side here, and another one comes square into it here over the
other side of the bridge. It was a building set in here.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me ask you this: How do you know it was the North
Expressway and Hall?
Mr. CRAFARD. The sign on the corner.
Mr. HUBERT. You saw the sign that said that?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes. We parked right beside the sign.
Mr. HUBERT. And you have no questions about your memory on that? It was
next to a sign saying North Expressway?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was on the North Central Expressway. I believe it was
the North Central and Hall.
Mr. HUBERT. You parked by the sign which designated both streets?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe--yes; I believe that was the name of the
streets. I am not sure of the side street, but I believe it was Hall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You drove out of town from the Carousel Club. Did you
drive north on the North Central Expressway?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know which way. I don’t even know exactly which
way the North Central Expressway runs.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this: This overpass that was near the
intersection, did you go under the overpass before you got to the sign?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now the sign, was that located facing traffic that comes
into town or traffic that goes out of town?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was facing traffic coming into town; I am not
sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And was there a place to park near that sign?
Mr. CRAFARD. On a side street that I believe is Hall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you pull off what you believe to be Hall Street,
could you pull off the road at that point and drive right up next to
the sign?
Mr. CRAFARD. There was a curb up--you would have to go over the curb to
do so, I believe. I think we parked along the curb here and got out and
walked across this open, small open space to the building the sign was
on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How large was the sign?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was I think about 3-foot long and about the same
height, 3 or 4 foot.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what kind of a standard or support was it on?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was on a building.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It was actually plastered on a building?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how high up on the building was it?
Mr. CRAFARD. I’d say about 5 or 6 foot.
Mr. HUBERT. How many pictures did you take?
Mr. CRAFARD. I took three photographs.
Mr. HUBERT. Were those instantaneous print pictures?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; 10-second Polaroid.
Mr. HUBERT. After you had finished taking them, what happened?
Mr. CRAFARD. We got back in the car and went back into town to one of
those cafes and had coffee.
Mr. HUBERT. What is the name of the cafe?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember the name of the cafe. I could take a
person right to it, but I can’t tell you the name.
Mr. HUBERT. How far away was it from the Carousel?
Mr. CRAFARD. About 2½ blocks.
Mr. HUBERT. Which way?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it would be south.
Mr. HUBERT. What was it, on Commerce Street?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was half a block off Commerce, two blocks down Commerce
and half a block off.
Mr. HUBERT. Was Senator with you then?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, the three of us were together. We went in and had
coffee, and I believe Jack showed the pictures to the man there in the
cafe.
Mr. HUBERT. What did Jack say about the pictures at any time,
commencing from the time you took them till----
Mr. CRAFARD. There was some reference made between the address on the
pictures and the address on an ad he had saw in the paper.
Mr. HUBERT. Who made that reference?
Mr. CRAFARD. Ruby made the reference.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember the context of the reference, what the idea
was contained in his reference?
Mr. CRAFARD. The fact that there was quite a similarity--he said
something about the numbers were the same when turned around a little
bit.