Mr. CRAFARD. He didn’t strike me just right.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you think he is a fake?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, I think 90 percent of him was fake, I would say. He
was a fairly decent comedian but his way was “Big me and little you. I
am everything and nobody else is anything,” was the way he struck me.
Mr. HUBERT. He was there about how long?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe he was there for about 2 weeks, I am not sure,
between 2 and 3 weeks.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever get to converse with him?
Mr. CRAFARD. While he was there in the club I would speak with him,
talk with him a little bit.
Mr. HUBERT. There was never any trouble between you, was there?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, there was never any trouble between us. I say he was
an easy-going person.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever see Joyce McDonald around there, the girl you
previously identified?
Mr. CRAFARD. Joy was working on the stage.
Mr. HUBERT. What was she doing?
Mr. CRAFARD. She was a stripper.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the relationship between her and Jack, do you
know?
Mr. CRAFARD. That of boss and employee.
Mr. HUBERT. You never observed anything else?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. She was with him a lot, though, personally?
Mr. CRAFARD. She would talk with him around the club that I could see.
She would talk with Jack.
Mr. HUBERT. Didn’t she go out to dinner with him?
Mr. CRAFARD. To my knowledge, no.
Mr. HUBERT. Some time?
Mr. CRAFARD. She might have. I heard Jack make the remark at one time
that he had been involved with every one of the girls that worked for
him at one time.
Mr. HUBERT. You heard him say that?
Mr. CRAFARD. He made the remark to me because of one of the waitresses
worked for him was a real sweet-looking girl and she had a real
wonderful personality.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was that?
Mr. CRAFARD. Marge, that is the only name I know her by, I don’t know
her last name.
Mr. HUBERT. She was a stripper?
Mr. CRAFARD. She was a waitress.
Mr. HUBERT. So what about Marge?
Mr. CRAFARD. How is that?
Mr. HUBERT. What about Marge?
Mr. CRAFARD. I said something, going out with her or something and he
made the statement that he had had a relationship with everyone of the
girls who worked for him.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say relationship or when he said it, you did
understand him to refer to sexual relationship?
Mr. CRAFARD. Sexual relationship.
Mr. HUBERT. There can be no doubt about that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you infer from that remark of his relative to the
remark you had made about your interest in Marge?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, it would--my remark had been on the sexual basis.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, did you regard that as sort of a consent on his part
for you to go ahead?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. He didn’t want me to go, to have anything to do with
any of the girls that worked for him.
Mr. HUBERT. So that in effect he was telling you that he was the one
who was to have the sexual relationships with the girls and not anyone
else?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is about the effect of it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say it as clearly as that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; he didn’t say it in so many words, but just an implied
statement.
Mr. HUBERT. That is the meaning you got out of that colloquy, is that
right?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you tell us as best you can remember what the
conversation was?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know. I said something about I would like to get
ahold of that or something, and Jack said, he said, he had already
gotten into it or something like that, and something said about his
girls, and I said so far as I am concerned--at that time it was a
little later after I went to work for him--I said, “As far as I am
concerned you haven’t got a stripper I am interested in,” and he said,
“I have had a relationship with every one of them.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you think Jack was puffing on that or did you believe
him?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know. As far as the strippers went I can very well
believe that but the waitresses it was pretty hard to believe because
little Marge, she ended up marrying a guy, and she was pretty stiff on
him, and in fact, so much that I have tried everything I could to get
her even to go out with me and she wouldn’t do it. And the other girls
didn’t seem too much to me like the type that would do so.
Mr. HUBERT. You did have a girl you went out with you used to meet at
the Eatwell?
Mr. CRAFARD. One of the girls who worked for Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was her name?
Mr. CRAFARD. She went to work for him later, I can’t even remember her
name now. The only one of the bunch I can remember, there were three
girls there roomed together, the only one I can remember is Norma, and
I first got acquainted with her was over the telephone and we had quite
a conversation, and we became rather friendly over the telephone and
when we met we was fairly friendly.
Mr. HUBERT. Did she work for Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; Jack tried to get her to work as a stripper which he
would do with every female, every nice-looking girl, that he met. She
would have nothing to do with it.
Mr. HUBERT. So you had this conversation with her on the telephone? Did
you get to meet her?
Mr. CRAFARD. I met her at the club; yes. I met her in person and then I
got to know her fairly well. We was together several times.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean on private dates?
Mr. CRAFARD. Well, it would be her and these other two girls. I was
with the other girl mostly, and we would go over together and three
of us sit together while we eat, and I would walk the girls home,
something like that. They would come to the club and the club would
close and I would walk this other girl home.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, there were two girls who worked for the
club?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; only one worked for the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Which one was that, it was not Norma?